Wow, hangs head in shame, must be getting old, missed that bit re prohibition also on private motors.
As ihpj states procedure as outlined.
Interesting reading on Police Directive by Avon/Zummerset on this matter at
www.tinyurl.com/9pefl
(takes time to download)
DVD
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Thanks for the info guys. Quite intersting, my brother has spoken to a Sergeantthat he knows who assures him that procedures have been broken in that
a. The policemen at no time put on their hats
b. The policemen gave his mobile number out which is a no-no
c. Under no circumstances can the police enforce an MOT.
Now given the above info on the thread, and the link, then this Sergeant doesn't know the full rules either!
Fyi, my brother has been hit with a £300 plus repair bill to get it through its MOT, mostly due to the fact that it is a Vauxhall dealer that he took it to (cos his pal worked there). Given the choice, he would have went to his usual independent garage.
Also, the garage found no fault with the bonnet catch.
I will pass on this info to my brother, as stated in my original post, I wanted this sort of info to feed back to him, did not want it turning into a police bashing thread. Thanks
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... assures him that procedures have been broken in that a. The policemen at no time put on their hats
>>
Oh man...this had me in *stitches* This comment made my day and night and I haven't stopped laughing myself silly. Love to know which 'point of law' says that Officers must wear caps? It talks about 'officer in uniform' (which does NOT include the wearing of the cap BTW).
b. The policemen gave his mobile number out which is a no-no
>>
Might be a 'no-no' but which 'rule of law' does that contravene to make the issuing of the prohibition invalid?
c. Under no circumstances can the police enforce an MOT.
Um...issuing of the PG9 = enforcement of the MOT. but if you're referring that the police escorted him to his garage of choice, then it was most probably for safety reasons that anything else (which again justifies the PG9).
Now given the above info on the thread, and the link, then this Sergeant doesn't know the full rules either!
He's got to be winding you up! :)
Fyi, my brother has been hit with a £300 plus repair bill to get it through its MOT, mostly due to the fact that it is a Vauxhall dealer that he took it to (cos his pal worked there). Given the choice, he would have went to his usual independent garage.
Well you pays your moeny and takes your chances when you goes to the main dealer :)
Hope your Bro. gets his car sorted and that if does try to appeal against the PG9 notice - then do let us know how he gets on? because I'd love to see a Court throw out a case because the Officer in question 'was not wearing his cap'!
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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I have to say that I hate seeing officers without their hat when talking to miscreant motorists. I especially hate the "hat on the back of the head" and "hands in pockets" It conveys, completely, the wrong message and takes away the air of authority. Call me old fashioned, cos I am.
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ihpj, you may have picked me up wrong in my comments, these were what the serving Sergeant's comments were to my brother, not my brother's grounds of appeal!
He is going to send a letter stating that
a. there was a faulty prohibition notice served on his bonnet catch which 3 registered MOT testers said there was nothing wrong.
b. why is it that if it was done by 3pm, the officer could check it, but if not, then he needed an MOT? What was the officer going to do - look under and check there was a new exhaust presumably? So why could he not just bring his car to the station to show his new exhaust?
c. why was common sense not allowed to prevail? He was stopped 100 or so yds from the garage which he had a booking with? Why was it not a case of a quick check with the garage and on you go?
I have told him he is wasting his time, but he is still livid with what has happened. Taking his argument to the nth degree, every time we need an exhaust replaced, or any other such repair, we may need to get an MOT as well if the police are in the area!
What do the police do when the exhaust on their car goes whilst on patrol? Would they park up and get it towed back to the garage? Or would they drive it back themselves? Whats the difference?
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He is going to send a letter stating that a. there was a faulty prohibition notice served on his bonnet catch which 3 registered MOT testers said there was nothing wrong.
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i am afraid yo have lost me there. when the police stopped your brother, did they not show him the faulty bonnet catch? in what way was it said to be faulty? faulty catch can mean either not closing properly or not opening properly. (iirc, bonnet not easily opened is classed as a mot safety defect.)
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Hope your Bro. gets his car sorted and that if does try to appeal against the PG9 notice - then do let us know how he gets on?
Appeal against a PG9!! Whats the point, PG9's are usually issued for "Absolute offences" to which there is no defense, and most police and Vosa are aware of this, thats why so many get issued when they just want to be awkard, because they know there is zip all we can do about it, So much for innocent until proven guilty - not in this country!!!!
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Most if not all traffic Offences are absolute offences...and this instance would be no different. There is absolutely no point in contesting something like this - but people do. Take a red light ticket for example. You can argue till you're blue in the face, but if the Officer says you crossed the red light you crossed it. In order to contest it, you will have to prove the Officer wrong, and if it comes down a to a matter of 'his word against yours' then the Court is obliged to side with the Officer - unless it can be proved otherwise.
Yes, to remove a PG9, a PG10 is issued - but you need'nt worry about that since that form is used to remove the 'prohibition marker' from the PNC for that vehicle.
Your brother can try and complain etc. you never know, he might get some joy. But the thing is, this was an absolute offence. Best working day for me is People who insist on challenging my tickets in Court - best tour of duty for me since Court will likely fall on a 'Rest Day' for me (which means overtime) and the hearing is very short - all in all a most easy day for me. You want to contest, go right ahead. Only person to gain will be the Officer since he will get a 'day at court' and easy shift.
I haven't lost a ticket in my seven (7) years - although people have tried :)
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Im not plain stupid, just a special kind of stoopid.
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Glad to see you looking for easy days at work, also glad to hear that even should you decide to bend the truth then you're still right, because the Court is obliged to side with the officer.....
And yes, I know I am not "allowed" to turn this into a Police bashing thread, so I'll leave it there, particularly as there DOES seem to be something fishy about this partic case, as the car must havbe been in a right old state!
Oh, other than to say that if you are so picky about OUR brake lights, then surely we are "allowed" to comment on the state of yours? Do the police not do checks on their cars before they set off? Can't be that hard to spot a brake light.... can it? We, the humble public are assured every time you stop us that we can't miss it....
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>>mostly due to the fact that it is a Vauxhall dealer that he took it to
To a main dealer, for an exhaust ? Must be a good friend.
What with that, the original coppers, and now the advice from the sergeant, either your brother is not having a very good time or you're getting mislead.
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Given the choice, he would have went to his usual independent garage.
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?? - in which way was he not given the choice ??
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The prohibition notice is called a 'PG 9' and a suitably qualified (Traffic) Officer can inspect a vehicle, ANY vehicle on a public road and if he finds faults (either singularly or colelctively) then he can issue a prohibition notice. These can range from absolutely no further driving to 'you may drive back home/to a garage for repairs + 10% mileage'. You then need to have the car MOTd (fee payable by you) and take that with the PG9 certificate to your locla Police Station and then the 'prohibition' can be removed.
I assume by the above you are refering to the issuing of a PG10, which actually overwrites the PG9.
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The officers who stopped your brother felt they had sufficient cause to issue a PG9 when the inspected the car. This included their view that the bonnet catch was faulty.
Ok, so the garage say otherwise, but the officer was right to ask for an MOT, as he had sufficient cause to consider the car may be unsafe.
As it happens, the car was unsafe due to the spring, something that may not have been discovered until an accident (although more likely at next MOT, the risk was still there).
The officer giving out his mobile was him trying to make things a little easier on your brother by stopping him having to go through the whole process. The chap was on shift, in the area, and willing to come back to check the car if the work was done by that time to save a whole lot of work. It wasn't the worlds biggest job, so not unreasonable to suggest end of shift as a timeescale.
As he would be off shift after this time, again not unreasonable to say "sorry mate, but you'll have to do it properly" if work not finished in time.
As I see it, he cut your brother some slack but the garage couldn't deliver in time. Nobody's fault, and the imposition of the "punishment" of an MOT would usually have been a requirement from the moment the PG9 was issued.
::stands back and awaits flaming::
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was watching the cars leaving a police station recently and in an unscientific half hour ten percent of their cars had at least one of the back lights out
be nice if they got their own house in order
funny what you count when you are bored
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Its called blending in....Do you really think that the only people to use police yards are the polis?
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yea but you can spot them when they have p o l i c e written on the outside and funny blue suits on
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How many cars was that in total 10 / 20 / 100?
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so that's 3 cars with a blown bulb, hardly a major problem
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"so that's 3 cars with a blown bulb, hardly a major problem"..
Er, it is if they decide to stop YOU for it. Only OK if they do it.....
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