Apparently there is a difference between say Shell brand petrol and supermarket petrol.
What about DIESEL brands (ignoring low sulpher), are they all the same?
Anybody know?
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Moosh,
I know Supermarket v Branded petrol argument has been raised before many times but opinions are always divided. HJ slammed supermarket petrol on his LBC radio show today and diagnosed it as the probable fault on a contributer's car. (well that was my reading of his comments)
In the past the Supermarkets have put out statements denying that their fuel causes problems. It is also of note that Shell/BP etc don't state that other petrols cause damage.
However if what HJ states cannot be substantiated I am surprised he is not sued. If a Journalist said Brand X toothpaste rotted your gums the manufacturers would sue wouldn't they?
A huge percentage of petrol is bought from supermarkets and it is about time that this question was sorted out once and for all.
Bob
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The question raised was on diesel and I would like to know what brands - if any - have any addatives like petrol has. I did ask HJ and his reply was that Shell was his choice but he did not say why. So who out there has an answaer as with the new high pressure TDI's I think it vital to get it right. To cover myself until I know which is best I put Commer additive in the tank on each refuel.
With regard to petrol HJ recommended Texaco for its "clean somthing system which I have used for the last 4 yrs with good results.
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Modern fuels have a very complicated and finely balanced cocktail of chemicals (additives). In my view, the use of unapproved additives may destroy the balance and lead to problems.
I doubt if one brand of fuel can be picked out as being better than another, since what suits one engine may not suit another so well. Any reputable fuel OUGHT to be suitable for any engine but, if there is real concern, the engine manufacturer should be able to advise on which fuels best suit their engines.
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I, too, put an additive into the tank on each re-fill because there have been cases (discussed on this forum) of fuel pump failure on diesels, possibly caused by some lack of lubricity in the fuel which is being pumped. Can anyone enlighten us on this ? If diesel pumps can be affected, are petrol injection systems prone to the same problems ?
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Problems occurred in some diesel injection pumps when the level of sulphur in the fuel was reduced as a result of legislation. Sulphur was important for lubricity and its deletion or reduction caused some pumps to seize. The missing sulphur has now been replaced by other chemicals to restore the lubricity of the fuel so the problem should have gone away.
I don't know for sure but I don't think petrol injection engines suffered the same problem. However, using unleaded petrrol in fuel injection systems designed for leaded fuel does run a high risk of damage to hoses and seals and these need to be replaced with ones designed for unleaded.
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I often drive past Fawley refinery near Southampton and see tankers from many different companys coming out inc Texaco,Sainsbury, Esso and Tesco.Do they have their own taps in there or do they all fill up from the same tap?Maybe the posh filling station gets the driver to mix the additives in when he is unloading the fuel.
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I also drive past a fuel depot and see many tankers with many different brand markings leaving the same place.... Drivers mixing in additives before delivery??? Ha ha ha I think not! talk about rose tinted glasses. In an ideal world maybe, along with insurance companies that settle claims in a fair manner! Dream on. :-)
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Whenever a supermarket has tried to pick me up for advising readers to steer clear of supermarket petrol generally it has never answered the basic question: Do you guarantee that every fill of your fuel will contain adequate detergent content? And if you do guarantee this please do so in writing. If I get a written guarantee I will publish it, then all users have to do is keep their receipts and if their engine develops a fuel-related problem they can get the supermarket to cough up.
Meanwhile, I'll recommend the fuels that work for me in my cars and won't risk experimenting with anything else that might not unless someone gurantees to pick up any bills that result. (The Telegraph certainly won't.)
That said Greenergy's City Diesel which Sainsbury's used to sell did have the lubricity additive Exxon Paradyn 631.
HJ
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Can we be sure that the fuel supplied at ordinary filling stations has an adequate amount of detergent? I've seen fuel being delivered to supermarkets in tankers marked with either the supermarkets own markings or one of the big oil companies. Is the same tanker with the big oil companies name on also going to the local filling station?
My local small/regional supermarket sells fuel from a Shell branded forecourt so is it an inferior fuel even though its a big company brand fuel?
Perhaps we shouldn't write off all supermarket fuel unless we know what the detergent content is.
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I don't think many if any oil companies have their own tankers nowadays. For instance Texaco tankers are Wincanton and they also have a parent company.
Alvin
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HJ,
You can't put it straighter than that.
If you are right it is a disgraceful situation. I am amazed that 'Which' or the car manufacturers don't publicise this.
Should you be wrong, I am equally surprised you are not sued.
Bob H
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I watched a programme about petrol refiners on tv shortly after the fuel strike. The manager who worked there said all tankers used the exact same fuel, however each brand Esso ,Shell etc had there own secret mix of additives added. so there all the same apart from the additives,the question is how important are these?
I have used Asda petrol ever since they sold it and have had no problems ,prior to that Esso again no problems. The only time i have had a problem was once only when i filled from at the time the cheapest independent in town and that was 30 years ago.
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Bob H,
What do you percieve as incorrect about the position HJ takes?
He is happy to recommend fuel products provided by Supermarkets if they guarantee in writing that the fuels they sell have the appropriate quantity of lubricity enhancers for diesel and fuel injection detergent for petrol. The Which magazine of course, makes similar recommendations. Hopefully democracy will continue to flourish - unless you know otherwise?
The balance of additives for fuels will be required to meet a BS standard, Cetane and octane amongst them.
Regards,
Julian.
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I posted this once before. I asked my son in law who was a tanker driver for texaco. He explained that when they fill their tanks at the depot they are given a card which they place in the bulk tanks dispensing unit. This tells the machinery what additive to put in. Apparently it changes according to who they are delivering to. He says that it is added to all fuels who he delivered to but is different. he knows nothing about the additive.
He also told me that one of the major companies (I've forgot who) who used their own tankers (which is unusual as they are mostly contractors) used to have an additive tank on board the vehicle and the driver would add the cocktail.
I'll ask him more when I next see him.
Alvin
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Some weeks ago HJ mentioned a particular diesel additive (I think I recall). For fear of being accused of advertising I will just say that it was something like M*ll*rs Power Plus; it isn't cheap and it isn't easy to find but I use it every fill up.
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And Esso use Hoyer for both bulk oil deliveries to us and fuel deliveries to our forecourt.
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Julian,
Nothing is incorrect about the stand HJ takes; he deserves nothing but praise for giving us the advice. I can't see anything in my threads that imply otherwise.
I am simply staggered that, if his hypothesis is correct, half(?) the motorists in this country are putting fuel in their cars that has the potential to cause damage to engines; and the car manufacturers say nothing!
Bob H
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I have said it before the UK refined fuelinUK WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN MAINLAND EUROPE AS IT DOES NOT CONFIRM TO SPECIFIC STANDARDS LAID DOWN;In other words most of it is crap,Perhaps that is why million km cars are very common in Europe and very rare in the UK.
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Bob H
"Should you be wrong, I am equally surprised you are not sued".
This was the remark in your previous note that I reacted to.
There is something I do not understand at present about fuel manufacture. I had assumed that a BS standard applies for each vehicle fuel on the forecourt.
These BS's appear limited, given that suppliers can manipulate the quantity of detergent or lubricity enhancers to a degree which can knacker your pride and joy. How much, I ask myself, are the other controling additives eg frost resistance, cetane values and octane values manipulated?.
Oil by comparison, seems to be more tightly controlled by the industry itself rather than by a BS.
Regards,
Julian.
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Unfortunatly BS means nothing in Mainland Europe or the rest of the world only ISO 9000 and TUV that is why alsorts of crap get passed for sale in the UK .You cannot export any product under the guise of BS its defunct means nothing.There was a day timed passed that BS stood for what is best in the world of engineering now it means nothing but isolationism
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Unless something has happened very recently which the oil companies and British Standards have kept quiet about, there AREN'T any British Standards, either for detergent quality and quantity in petrol of for lubricity additives in diesel.
HJ
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Franky I do not trust any of the petroleum manufacturers unless their claims
are "written in stone" & until that time arrives, I take the good advice of HJ &
utilise Millers Superplus Diesel additive.
regards
Simon
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I suspect I recently bought a tankful of dodgy diesel for my VW Golf Mk4 GT TDI: lower fuel consumption (48 mpg, not 55), reduced performance. I filled up with Esso and performance and consumption improved and it seemed better, but still not as good as it was.
I've just tanked up again with Esso together with Redex diesel additive. SEEMS to be better still, but I haven't had time to put it to a decent test. Anyone else tried Redex? I'll try Miller's too.
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