First of all let me tell you that I am not a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestent) myself, but ...
I am selling a car and have had 3 calls, all 3 were timewasters ... "Oh I want the car but ...
1. I'll do an HPI check - asks for very detailed info includind V5 doc no. and then don't hear from him, so I call and he says he still wants the car but still no deposit.
2. Offer a ridiculous price without seeing it.
3. I send hi-res pics, then go down to visit him but not given right address, then call him to be told he's not interested."
but, all 3 were of Asian extraction. Anyone else had this experience?
Thing is, they don't take NO for an answer and try to beat you down into submission like the poor old Tottenham Rd Indian electronics retailer in "The Apprentice", who eventually gave in and gave the product away for free! You try to be polite but it get's difficult to keep your cool!
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Sorry not the greatest fan of these sort of comments. Surely the clientele that you deal with depends where you live, if you live in an area with a high ethnic population then it is likely that you will get some time wasting treatment from people from an ethnic minority, in the same was as if you lived in a predominantly white area then you will get rubbish from white people. Saying that ethnic people are inherently more likely to time waste is not the most "correct" comment you can make on a public forum where people might easly take offence.
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As usual someone plays the Political Correctness card. My friend has had hassle off asians when selling, usually japanese cars. They wont take no for an answer, they offer a ridiculously low sum below what youre asking, then get shirty if you wont sell at whet theyre offering.
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Quite right. Asians are by nature barterers, thats how they do business. If you yourself are not prepared to barter you need to be straight from the outset, saying that what you are asking is the bottom line price, take it or leave it and you won't waste the guys time by letting him think otherwise.
I used to answer persistant requests for a discount by saying you can discount any idea of a cheaper price. You'd be surprised how many people would then agree to pay the full amount.
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On the subject of selling cars it occurs to me that I have not had to do so for nearly 10 years and how greatful I am for it.
The previous 10 years to that for various reasons I was buying and selling a car about every 6 months and it always seemed the cheaper the car the bigger the idiot.
The number of people who were 'coming round' but never did was enormous. Sold a car once to the previous caller and the bloke who said he was coming round did and was most agrieved which I can understand but I was not prepared to sit on it on the off chance that he might turn up.
Two further stories.
I was selling a MkII Escort that had somehow managed a 12 month ticket but was on its last legs and was priced accordingly, £150 as I recall. Had a guy spend 20 minutes bouncing the suspension before announcing that it sagged a bit and then he proceeded to spend the next 2 hours examing and detailing every fault on the car before offering me £50. Told him to retreat before my wrath (or words to that effect). Now did he really expect a perfect car for £100?
Was selling a MKIII Cortina that had 2 months on the ticket and then was likely going to the great scrapyeard in the sky for as I recall £20. Some bloke called and said what we were going to do was (not asked said mind) take it to be MOT'ed and if it passed he'd buy it (for £20 presumably) and if not he wouldn't. Now you will all know that a MOT superceeds a previous one so he either got a car worth say £150 (with ticket) or I got back a car with no ticket (and worthless). Instead of just putting the phone down I did explain this to him and called him an onanist.
Bottom line selling cars was just hell with an endless procession of idiots who clearly wanted a new Rolls Royce for the price of a rusty Sierra. Just thinking back to those times brings mne out in a sweat. Doing it for a living? Not me...
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>>>>Just thinking back to those times brings mne out in a sweat. Doing it for a living? Not me...
<<<<
We all complain about the attitude you often get in dealers. But imagine dealing with the car buying public all day, selling cars for a minuscule profit, and after a few years, you'd probably start to get a bit cynical yourself.
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imagine dealing with the car buying public all day, selling cars for a minuscule profit, and after a few years, you'd probably start to get a bit cynical yourself.
The glossy premises occuppied by most dealers (and the posh wheels they drive themselves) do not speak to me of miniscule profit.
It may be a difft story for used car dealers, but those selling new ones seem to do rather nicely out of it. OK, maybe the real profit is in their extortionate servicing charges, but one way or another selling new cars seems to generate a rather nice revenue streeam for some folks.
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BTW Smoke, I live in a very middle class white area and it's a 1 year old high end German car. There's a difference between bartering/negotiating and being down right cheeky! As I said, I am not a WASP myself so I am just trying to find out if this is a trait and/or if I'm being scammed in some way because it seems a bit strange to ask for the V5 doc ref no. on a new type V5 (It seems some old style V5s with doc no.s were stolen)
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No offence meant, it was just that i could invisage the debate taking a totally different tack, and was just pointing it out.
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I'm watching, people; make sure that we continue to treat this subject in the right way.
A foot over the line, and the thread goes.
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Fifteen years ago, a friend told me of a New York joke: "why did God invent WASPs?" Answer "cos someone's gotta pay retail"
As HJ says, some cultures are much more accustomed to haggling than used to be the case in the UK, but these days, for good or ill, few expect to pay retail. The stereotypical WASP doesn't pay full whack from a dept store any more, she drives off to CostCo.
See a price on anything, and we all reckon that if we hunt around we'll find it on offer cheaper elsewhere ... and plenty of retailers encourage this with their "price-matching" offers.
Anyone vaguely clued-up knows that plenty of cars for sale are never going to go for anything near the ticket price, and that lots of sellers are setting themselves up to expect haggling. In the discount-everything culture, should it really be a surprise that some folks try it on with absurdly cheeky offers?
If I'm selling anything, I expect plenty of cheeky offers, just as I make plenty of cheeky offers myself. I don't get offended if the offers I make are refused, or offended if they come my way -- it's just part of the buying-and-selling process these days.
I can understand Chuck's frustration, but I'm a bit surprised that he'd expect anything else. Not trying to be rude, just I think that's the way it is these days, for good or ill.
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Yes, we all want a bargain. Go to CostCo/WallMart, wherever, to find the best price, but don't go there and then offer them 50 Cents for the 1 Dollar item or say you'll buy the 1 Dollar item but you haven't got any money on you, go away, call to say you still want it and will come back in a day or two and not come back and then verify you still want it when CostCo call you because they've reserved it! I am not young and naive, I've sold a few cars in my lifetime and had the non-showers etc.
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Thing is, they don't take NO for an answer and try to beat you down into submission
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chuck - my personal views, and no more. not advice or anything else.
1. first, keeping the ethnic origin out of this, your story of "timewaster" 1 and "timewaster" 3 seem to indicate that rather than them, it was you who was not getting the message "no-sale". why do i say that? well, because it seems obvious to me that they were not interested but you were so keen on selling that you were persuing them. it looks like you were desperate sell and were trying to beat them down in to sunmission to buy at a price you wanted.
person 2 might have been someone who knew the other two "timewasters" and was just getting a feel for how desperate you were to sell.
2. secondly, regarding ethnic stereotyping, from my personal experience (meet a lot of people from all corners of the world in a company that i am associated with), a few point to note:
a. people from certain backgrounds or from certain countries are use dto hard bargaining, but only if they sense that the other party is keen to sell. if you make it very clear what your limit is, they will understand.
b. not everyone fits the stereotype.
c. your car may be of a certain type that appeals to that ethnic group.
d. in asian certain cultures (e.g. south asian, far-eastern and japanese), it is seen as being rude to say no. so they will never say no thanks, i don't wish to buy. instead they will invent elaboarte excuses to go away and think about it and all the while keep telling you that they do want to buy. perhaps this is one reason why the south indian community have learnt to shake their head such that it is nodding yes at the same time as saying no.
3. finally, have you had any other calls, and did they offer to buy at your price? if not, how did they decline your bargain offer?
personally, i would put this down to experience, keep my cool, and remember who is trying to sell the car. it pays to know your market. one of my aquaintances offered a dealer 20% less than the asking price for a beemer a year ago. the dealer said no. that car is still on his forecout today, at a price 25% below the original asking price.
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1) How can I have mis-read the signs when
Timewaster 1) Calls back twice saying they want the car?
Timewaster 3) Calls back to ask me to drive the car to his fake address?
(Notice how they called ME!)
2) I am from Asia myself. Your stereotyping is laughable.
Hope you have better luck when you come to sell a car.
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PS. I am an International Consultant, so I've travelled extensively and met, worked with and socialised with people from all around the world too!
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My business partner is indian. He gets higher fees and pays less for anything that I do. I'm just too embarrassed and hamstrung by years of protestant work ethic to argue the way he does. We get along really well - our business thrives on our strange mix of his perseverance and my old fashioned attitudes. Join the real world guys.
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Asians are not that tough. You should try Nigerians.
Spent many years in Lagos. Believe me they will teach you how to do business...
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Having sold everythin from a car to a chest of drawers when I used to live in the midlands, I eventually came to the conclusion that in a multi cultural society, you get exactly what it says on the tin - a mix of cultures!
The british culture has traditionally been one ruled by polieness where cheeky offers etc are considered, at best, brave.
The continental culture leans more towards gental negotiation and the middle and far eastern cultures have been traditionalised by more aggressive negotiation and hard bargaining. That is a statement of fact.
Nowadays, extremes often clash. I have dealt with people who have been extremely rude in trying to get the price down to extremely skilled and polite negotiators. In the middle have been people who tried to wear me down or trid some other tactic. People of all backgrounds were found in all the above categories.
The only thing I have learned when trying to sell a car where ever you are in the country is to expect timewasters or basement price merchants. Prepare yourself for these or sell it to a trader for bottom book.
Be assertive when negotiating. If the buyer resorts to trying to bully you then simply refuse to deal with him on any terms. If this brings about a percieved threat then explain that the police will be involved if they don't clear off.
Hugo
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Hope you have better luck when you come to sell a car
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i have regularly sold and bought many. key - know your market.
i have never ever driven the car to anyone anywhere, because i have never been that desperate to sell.
if they want to buy, they prove they are serious by coming to me.
if my price is negotiable, i tell them my final price at the first attempt at haggling - take it or leave it.
i have bought from the bazaars of north africa, bombay, bangkok, kuala lumpur, to name a few.
and i thought i knew how to bargain with these market traders.
that is, until i went to the night market in chiang-mai with a chinese friend. when i saw him bargain with the street traders, i realised how amateurish i was. the most important lesson was how the other party perceives your attitude. they take you for a ride based on that judgement.
however, i can see how your experience must have affected you if that was enough to prompt you to sign up on this site to record your feelings.
I am from Asia myself. Your stereotyping is laughable
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but that is how a majority w.a.s.p.'s like myself may view orientals.
and remember, you started this thread with a reference to the majority population as "w.a.s.p."s.
anyhow, hugo has summed up the situation very well, and no more needs to be said.
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