With so many people having problems with diesels in cold weather, I thought I would pass on details of a successful 'bodge' I carried out 2 years ago on a Toyota Hilux, which has had no problems starting in the cold weather this week.
On most diesels, the heater plugs are controlled by an assortment of timers, relays, sensors etc. These are all expensive, and a pig to diagnose when they go wrong. So, having tested the heater plugs on the Toyota and narrowed the problem down to one of the two control boxes, I simply bolted an old Lucas starter solenoid under the bonnet, ran a thick cable from the battery to the relay, then another cable to the heater plugs. The solenoid is operated by a push switch on the dash. To start from cold, push the switch and hold in for 10 seconds. Then turn the ignition key while still pushing the switch. Release the switch when the engine fires.
This modification cost me £10 in parts and took about an hour to fit. Only recommended for old bangers though - it won't do the residual value of your X reg Audi A4 TDi much good.
|
|
many thanks, i will pass this idea onto my next door neighbour, as his car take a while to start, and he tries to starts it at about 5.30 in the morning, so he always wakes the street up.
|
|
|
Interesting Richard, this is a known dodge for the old Land Rover diesels.
First improvement is to convert them from the old series wired plugs to a modern set with normal wiring.
Then fit the starter solenoid as you mention. Not because the Land Rover has expensive relays but because it has none and all the current on mine (Series 3 arrangement) passes through the ign switch.
David
|
|
|
David W
Have you ever come across the 'flamestart' intake heaters, as used on big Perkins diesels? These seem to work very well, and I always wondered whether they would perform better than heater plugs on old diesels. I once bought a Land Rover manifold which had been modified to take a flamestart unit, but I never fitted it. Anyone who can do aluminium welding could make one up in about 10 minutes, and the flamestart units are £20 from Massey Ferguson dealers.
|
Richard,
Haven't seen the "Flamestart" system. What is it? I haven't got to the bottom of my LR diesel slow starting yet but they are far more prone to loads of churning over than most car diesels.
Easy-start is in the shed here, but for dire emergency use on hopeless old lawnmowers or the tractor. For all the vehicles that pass through here I use less than one squirt a year.
David
|
|
|
|
Two words:
Easy Start
Noone has ever mentioned it here to my knowledge but I remember back in my good old farm working days Easy Start would start almost anything in any weather. Our International [Tractor] often had problems with the engine heater as did the Caterpillar. Quick spray of Easy Start, engine running instantly in -5 degree temperatures. Same for the Land Rover when necessary and it was even used on one occasion when the choke broke in my petrol Fiesta.
For those unfamiliar, Easy Start is an aerosol can full of various highly inflammable materials that you spray into the air intake as the engine is being turned over.
Only problem was, like a drug, some of the engines became addicted to it...
Dan
|
|
|
If I may take the liberty of quoting from my own website...
BODGES WHICH DON'T WORK.....
5. Using Easy-Start fluid on a diesel which is hard to start from cold. Sure it will start the engine, but just listen to the clatter as it fires up. That is the sound of piston tops, valves and head gasket taking a hammering, and sooner or later something will let go. If the engine won't start easily from cold but is otherwise fine, the heater plugs probably aren't working - much less expensive to fix than a blown up engine.
|
I guess tractor engines were probably a little hardier than car engines but I always figured it probably wasn't the healthiest of way to start the engine. Needs must at the time and all that...
What is the address of your website Richard?
|
|
|
|
Dan
It's bangernomics.tripod.com The 'bodges' page is in the Maintenance section.
|
|
Excellent website Richard - reminds me of my fond days with the Austin Maestro!
|
|
|
|
David
A flamestart consists of a narrow bore nozzle connected by copper tube to some pressurised part of the fuel system (usually uses a take-off pipe from the top of the fuel filter housing). There is a small valve built into the nozzle which I think is controlled by a bimetallic strip, although it may be a small solenoid valve. In front of the nozzle is a coil of resistance wire. There is a spade terminal mounted on the body, which is earthed via the manifold into which it is screwed.
When you feed power to the spade terminal, the coil becomes white hot, and the valve opens. When you then turn the engine over, diesel is sprayed out of the nozzle onto the coil, where it ignites. The whole assembly sits at the outer end of the inlet manifold, and hot air is drawn into the combustion chambers. When the power is cut, the fuel supply shuts off. Very simple - you need a flat aluminium plate welded to the inlet manifold somewhere near no. 1 cylinder, then drilled and tapped to take the flamestart.
Take a look at a Perkins 4.203 or 4.236 diesel to see the installation - these engines were used in various tractors, combines, Dodge 50 series vans and also turn up a lot in old Range Rovers. There is a tractor and combine breaker somewhere out near Haverhill - can't remember the name, but he's in the Yellow Pages.
A flamestart draws a lot less current than a set of heater plugs, which is handy. I have never had any trouble starting flamestart equipped diesels, even at minus ten degrees. The Ford Transit 2.5Di (which has no heater plugs as standard) offered a flamestart option for Arctic use.
|
|
I owned a Transit in 1978 fitted with Flamestart, not a Perkins engine but a Ford York. To see the thing working with the aircleaner off was frightening. Finally, I changed the cylinder head to one which would take gloplugs wired, - as someone else said - through a relay and a dashboard switch. To stop the engine, a knob on the dashboard was pulled and connected directly to the fuel pump. Simple technology!
|
|
|
|
Richard - your Bangernomics site is really superb!
Having just bought a 92 Carlton Diplomat for £750, I can only wonder why this top class luxobarge is not in your Bargain Barges section?!
|
|
|
David
Hope you haven't rushed out and bought a flamestart yet, as something just occurred to me. The Perkins engines, and the 2.5 Transit, are all direct injection. I'm not sure whether a flamestart will work so well with indirect injection diesels.
|
Richard,
No not rushed out yet but will gather info over the summer, might be a project for/before the winter.
As a matter of interest I have two spare inlet manifolds in the workshop, one has a machined flat at one end and the other an inserted steel blanking disc. They would be ideal to convert.
The guy next door knows loads about diesels and he commented he had the Flamestart on a Perkins diesel converted P6 Rover!!
Also he had heard me trying to start the Land Rover and commented the cranking speed is too low, I need a new starter. Yes I knew that but am trying to avoid spending another £100 on the thing at the moment!
David
|
|
|
|
Dan,
I'm still having protracted correspondence with Peter & Kim re their Escort 1600 diesel, and there original post is now about 3 screens old. The chaps having a real struggle and I have recommended Ezistart to him together with other advice.
If you can offer any additional advise I am sure he would be pleased to hear from you. His original note was entitled "Ford 1600 diesel problem" and the initiall post was from Kim.
Regards,
Julian
|
|
|
Richard,
I hear what you say, but disagree regarding the robustness of diesel engines.
Diesels run at comp ratios of about 14:1 plus, so the engines engineering inevitably has to be considerably more muscular than a perol equivalent. Engine operating temperature and running speeds are low again when compared to a petrol euivalent.
What I do agree is that regular use of Ezistart is a lazy way to resolve a glowplug problem and its continued use will not be kind to an engine. Resolution of the normal cold start system is what I would recommend, asap.
Could I refer you to a post entitled "Ford 1600 diesel problem", author Kim. Kim and Peter have a real problem here, and I've run out of practical ideas to help. The original letter was sent before Christmas and is about 3 screens old. Any help you may be able to provide to them I am sure would be gratefully recieved.
Regards,
Julian.
|
|
Probably best to post a new thread with an update of what's been tried so far ?
|
|
|
|
|
The flamestart -- or induction heater, to give its usual title -- was made by CAV under the trade name Thermostart. It was fitted to Perkins engines as far back as 1945 when they were all indirect injection.
|
|
A lot of recent correspondence about difficult starting of diesels seems to relate to a particular Vauxhall diesel engine. I understand that, with these engines, the accelerator pedal should be fully depressed for starting at temperatures below 10 degrees C. This will give an enriched mixture by over-fuelling and may answer the cold-starting problem that has been aired in this forum several times.
|
|
|
|
