Well folks, after sweeping my road behind the hedge cutter a few week ago, my dear wife managed to drive her Mondeo over a thorn which has now punctured the side wall, about one inch from the tread.
I was waiting in a long line at the tyre depot watching the sluggish movements of the "tyre fitters", some of them with the usual mouth agape look and the thick bottom lip I have found is often owned by a dumbkoff.
As they nonchallantly threw the trolley jacks under the various cars without appearing to check for correct jacking points, I recalled a previous incident, (different shop) when a tyre fitter managed to bend two box sections on my wifes Volvo by putting a trolley jack in the wrong place (both sides).
I could not stand it any longer and drove away.
I now notice that this depot usually has very young people working at weekends and most of the older staff are not seen. I came home and took the wheel off - tyre still inflated - and put on the spare. I shall now present them with the tyre and no doubt be told "OoooH, can't repair that, it's on the side wall"
Well maybe, but why can they not put a tube in the thing? They say we can put men on the moon ( if you believe it) and yet they can't vulcanise a tyre to seal a hole which must be like a pin @!#$ on the inside. It's the law, I suppose.
Has anyone else had this sort of problem with tyre depots employing people whose knowledge of jacking points appears a tad lacking? Keeping in mind some of the vehicles they are bending will be worth many thousands of £££££'s and the fact that I would not have known about the previous bending if it had not been pointed out the next day by the MOT tester.
Anyone had a tyre change recently and looked under the car? How do we protect our cars from this vandalism?
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Alwyn,
I would stand to be corrected by a tyre expert but I think the reason a tube shouldn't be fitted to most modern cars is all down to rim design.
If you look at a very old wheel designed for a tube they have a nice rounded inner profile so the tube seats correctly. Then look at a modern wheel and they have that shaped section that is to stop the tyre falling right into the rim when the pressure goes (ie in an emergency). Is this called a safety hump?
Well if you look at these modern rim profiles the tube will stretch over the edge of the hump/ledge and it could cause stress failure.
That's what I've understood for years.
David
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The last time I enquired about this, I was told that it was illegal to fit a tube into modren radial tyres becauses, as David correctly states, the tube does not push the tre properly against the rim of the wheel. Fitting a tube would, in some circumstances, allow the tyre to come off the rim completely.
On your other point, the reason why 'they' won't repair a puncture in the sidewall is that it would do them out of selling a new tyre.
Andy
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One of the large tyre companies began including in their small print words to the effect that the owner must check the correct torque settings for the wheel bolts after X miles to ensure they are correct.
One could construe this to be in the customers best interests or cynics might say this is to cover themselves in case of accident.
After getting home from any tyre fitter I always loosen the wheel nuts and torque them back up again mainly to ensure that I would be able to undo them if I had to out on the road.
As regards jacking in the correct place manufacturers often state that jacking must not take place on suspension members. One would imagine that tyre companies would have wall charts for their fitters telling them where the individual car must be supported.
Alvin
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Makes one wonder, as tyres are such a safety-fundamental part of the car, how they get away with it.
If some slow-witted dullard can't even find a jacking point, imagine how much fun he'd have trying to balance and fit a tyre.
I wonder how many smashes/close shaves occur after having tyres done by morons?
On a similar note, a colleague had a new set of tyres put on a while back. When he checked them, they were 15% underinflated, compared to the manufacturer's recommended pressure... Makes you think.
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"If some slow-witted dullard can't even find a jacking point, imagine how much fun he'd have trying to balance and fit a tyre."
or even fastening up the wheel fixings properly!
It's frightening how many HGVs have lost/loose wheel incidents each year due to ignorance in the correct method to tighten wheel nuts/studs.
Employ chimpanzees and you get what you pay for
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I was told by a mobile fitter (at 02.00 in the morning, its a long story dont ask!), that his company policy was to not remove wheels on HGVs on roadside repairs. Repairing and refitting the tyre to the wheel remaining on the vehicle absolved them from the nut re-torquing liability that was necessary after a certain time/distance. The only other solution was for them to follow the HGV for about 50 miles and retorque! How many do that do you think?
I have no reason to doubt the story, the guy seemed too smart to be just working as a tyre fitter anyway. He also told me that he now refused all motorway call outs after being involved in a multiple where a second HGV hit a stationary police car (on full blues) on the hard shoulder and then suceeded in writing of the 2 mobile tyre repair vehicles working on the original call out!
Real story? Allegedly happened near Watford on M1. Somebody local may remember.
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Stuart,the wheels apparently sometimes come of even if the nuts have been torqued correctly.Mike
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Mike,
Yes the above was a gross oversimplification of a whole range of issues, but then we were in a let's knock tyre fitters thread.
Nevertheless this is a subject with much personal and professional interest for me, so if you, or indeed anyone else, wishes to continue the discussion please drop me an e mail. The discusion will have to be off site for reasons which will become clear.
Kind regards,
Stuart
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Quote:
>Has anyone else had this sort of problem with tyre depots employing people >whose knowledge of jacking points appears a tad lacking?
Indeed Alwyn, I contacted HJ's Telegraph feature regarding exactly this after a local tyre 'specialist' knackered the rear suspension on my fathers' Mondeo estate in such a manner. I was also unfortunate enough to trust a local garage to inspect my rear brakes earlier this year and they managed to badly gouge the sill with the vertical section of their trolley jack. It is a big problem with any place which uses trolley jacks - most garages do.
You had the best idea in removing the wheel yourself and presenting it to them. When I next need new tyres I intend to jack the car myself in their bay with the proper jack which came with the car.
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Alvin
Good point about wheel nuts being tight enough to hold the wheel on but not so tight that you can't change the wheel by the roadside.
I got caught out like that last time I had a flat, but as it was only at the end of the road (must have been flat when I drove off and it took me three house-lengths to notice) I was able to grab an extension bar from home.
I prefer a tyre brace (or a socket set) that you can stand on the end of if the worst comes to the worst. Some braces supplied with vehicles are designed to fit in a space rather than do the job, with the result that they are so short that you can get hardly any leverage at all.
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I had a puncture repaired at a fast fit depot. Trying to remove the wheel a month later to change pads, resulted in all 5 bolts shearing! And most hubs are only secured by one nut and a split pin! I now insist on doing the nuts up myself. They look at me "gone out" when I copper grease them first!
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As a matter of routine I loosen and re-tighten the wheelnuts on cars during a service.
I regard it as good practice to ensure the fixings are neither loose nor so tight the customer couldn't remove the wheel themselves after a flat.
It makes me smile when I need the 3/4" drive and long bar to crack off a wheel nut/bolt. When I say to the customer "you've had a puncture/new tyre on the n/s front" they ask "how could you have known that?".
"Simple, its only tyre fitters who nearly friction weld the bolts on".
David
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Had a puncture on Boxing day. Managed to remove the wheel nuts OK but the alloy wheel seemed welded to the hub even without the bolts!
Finally removed it with a lot of effort and kicking.
[friends size 12 boots came in handy.
Anybody experience this?
Any preventitive measure?
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A thin film of grease or Vaseline between the wheel and the hub should prevent it.
Andy
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Yes I agree re the LGV incidents, then the driver cops it for failing to maintain. I had one case go to Crown on appeal and we won.
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pay peanuts, get monkeys.
still, the other one, 'common sense is self defence' doesnt seem to be appreciated by the monkeys. They're only interested in earning their next bag of nuts, and not customer service.
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In France punctures are routinely repaired using the 'old' english method of just inserting a single loop of rubber from the outside of the tyre. ( This is at major tyre quick fit establishments as well as small garages).
The rubber insert does come from a sealed pack, and appears to covered in a sticky goo. It has the advantage of being very easy and quick and cheap! £5 about 18 months ago. Also the tyre does not get rebalanced (I always mark stud to wheel). No problems.
I believe that this method of repair is not legal in the uk, but stand to be corrected.
I do however ensure that a tyre repaired in this way never goes back on the front, and prefeably remains as a spare.
Interesting question of liability in the event of an accident in the uk?
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Alwyn,
The issues you raise re tyre dealers, particularly fitters and their technical expertise, seems commonplace across the country and should course concern amongst us all.
What is the way forward? As in so many other aspects of British life it seems we want our tyes supplied and fitted with a no frills service. Industry competition over time has re-written the definition and a "no frills" sevice has now become very much a "threadbare" one
An experience early this year at the Just Tyres organisation concerned wheel balancing. Try as they might (3 separate occasions) they were unable to balance my front tyres. The trouble of course was the balance rig. A quality calibration would have isolated this, and it may have been compensatable. "Its all been calibrated recently" was the reply to my direct "Q". A telephone call to the area manager enabled the work to be carried out at another location, and the problem was immediatly sorted. Hassle I could of done without. I have experienced this problem at two other dealerships over the years.
Looking at tyre fitting services, what do I notice:
A high turnover of young staff.
No supervision ie quality control. eg alloy wheel scratch avoidance, jacking etc
Probably poor pay for employees.
Premises filthy and disorganised.
Poor worker facilities ie loo's etc.
No customer appointments structure.
Fierce competition from other dealers.
Mediocre facilities for customers.
Its too easy for me to be critical, so I ask myself whats the way forward. Two answers come to mind.
A business offering some improvements re the concerns above
A modest premium on tyres to cover the cost.
I for one, would pay a premium if I saw my car getting more "refined" attention in a workshop that was clean and organised and where customers could wait in a clean, pleasant environment, perhaps even with beverage facilities
Remembering that all businesses require to make a profit, and given the right management chemistry, even grow, would you pay a bit more for a service improvement?
All the best
Julian.
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one problem is so much business comes from lease companies for company car divers, and they are cost concious above any quality concerns
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Actually I reckon all this problem with nuts not done up tight enough or too tight is down to air hammers. In the good old days when one had to spin the nuts up with a spider you made damn sure the threads were clean and oiled first.
Now its just a wooozratatatatatatata and hope its near enough.
Actually pugugly there was a case where too much driver attention caused a wheel loss. The driver, an old timer, cracked his nuts every morning if you will pardon the expression. Of course in time the yield strength of the studs was exceeded and hey presto.
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I could not believe my eyes when I had a tyre changed years ago. They put the front of the car on a hydraulic lift, stuck an axle stand underneath with the top edge resting against a chassis member......and let go to suspend the car with the whole wight of the front of the car on a piece of metal one inch by one eight of an inch....they were then less than polite when I commented. I wrote an official complaint and got an apology, but at the end of the day only a moron would do this.
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