Was trying to start hopefully a discussion rather than pedantictry.
>
Shouldn't that be pedantricity?
|
I have heard about this before, although didn't know the figures.
For this reason, the airbags on the US are far bigger than ours, and as a result, far more dangerous to any children who may be sitting in the front seat.
|
Mandatory in all states, but its not really a matter of resistance to wearing them so much as its a matter of it not being enforced much. The police agencies occasionally do a "buckle up" campaign usually around holidays where they specifically target those not wearing belts, but for the most part the only other time you will get "done" for it is if they have some other reason to stop you (and they want to tack on an extra fine)or they want to stop you and need a valid reason to.
|
Vaguely remember Clarkson saying once that American cars have to be designed in such a way that they must assume the driver is not wearing their seatbelt.
I see it as a form of natural selection.
|
I believe it is mandatory in all States - the level of enforcement by each city police force varies greatly. Bear in mind in this context a 'city' can be a small suburb.
Strangely it is not mandatory for motorcyclists to wear helmets. Quite amazing how many Harley riders do not wear them in Florida - and they are all old enough to know better!
Growler. I love Harley's - I really do!
|
I think you'll find non-use of belts and no mandatory helmet laws in some states is down to the American concept of freedom of choice and personal liberty.
Some riders avoid tickets i the US with those tiny "peanut" helmets. Those darned full-facers can also limit one's vision dangerously as well as be hot and claustrophobic and give you neck-ache with their weight. I would never one of those. It's pointless for authorities to mandate helmets then make no provision for body armour as well, in any case. I ride with bare arms, open face helmet so as to avoid a ticket in the city but not on the highway and will take the risk, and I understand the US viewpoint.
In the view of many in the US and elsewhere helmets are of limited use in protecting a rider from serious injury except at very low speeds, and there's plenty of data to back this up. Personally on the open expressways I am far more comfortable helmet-less, and I understand why many American riders resist them.
|
I saw a documentary in which the accident investigator showed a perfectly formed kiss mark on the air bag of an otherwise 'totalled' car. "We call this the 'Kiss of Life'", she said.
Further to that, if the Americans were in general not so corpulent then they could possibly get their seat belts around them.
To Growler : I once came a purler over the handlebars of my Matchless and landed like an arrow on the road surface. My open faced, flexible peaked, cork interior helmet saved me from all except a grazed tip of the nose. Anything larger or stronger might well have given me a fractured spine.
|
Last year on holiday in Florida, each morning?s copy of the Orlando Sentinel had details of the previous days accidents. Mostly, car occupants where not wearing seat belts (including an apparently well known basketball player who was killed while we were there). The other thing that?s unusual to UK reports is that they generally gave a pretty specific reason for the crash.
I was recently in Las Angeles, being driven in a mini-bus (so could see other drivers easily). I?d say it was about 50/50 for seatbelt wearing, but almost *everybody* seemed to be using a handheld mobile (which I think is illegal there too).
Back to the UK, a couple of 17 yr olds (boy & girl) were killed recently near where I live after their car drifted into the path of a lorry. They were on a 50 mile journey and neither were wearing seatbelts. There have been a couple of other non-seatbelt wearing fatalities reported recently around here, including a front seat passenger being thrown from a BMW convertible that hit a tree.
|
Many American drivers, believing that airbags would be sufficient to protect them in an accident, have refrained from wearing seat belts.
As a result many have suffered bad leg injuries in accidents after failing to realise that the airbags and seat belts work in combination.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
Hillman, illustrates my point about full face helmets. Plus well-meaning bystanders trying to pull them off can do serious damage to spinal cords. I hate the damn things. You can in fact buy helmet stickers warning others not to do this.
Your example is amusing: I did precisely the same circa 195- something on the A24 roundabout at Southwater in the rain on a rigid 1947 Ariel 350, split my Cromwell helmet down the middle, broke my Stadium Mark VIII goggles, got up and then cursed the damn bike for not starting. All my mates behind me were laughing their proverbials off. But as we know in those days bikers were bikers.
But back to the US and the topic: it's a totally different driving culture. As for airbags when I wrote off my F150 my biggest injuries were facial and upper body bruises and black eyes from the air bags. For a week after I felt like I'd done 10 rounds with Mike Tyson. If not for them I would have walked away more or less unscathed based on seat belts alone. So I don't have a huge lot of time for the bags either.
|
I once went down the road on my face. Thank god I was wearing a full face, which got worn paper thin.
I also, in a Clio Williams, got intimate with a tree t some considerable speed. I too walked away with black eyes and a puffed up face. Difference was I took one look at the car [or what was left of it] and called that a win.
There's stories of people who would have survived a fire but their seatbelts jammed etc. etc. However, as far as I can see over all there is a higher chance of a full face helmet or an airbag or a seatbelt helping then there is of it harming.
|
The Yanks hate wearing belts. Before airbags, they had motorised seatbelts, so that as you put the key in the ignition, the belt whirred its way from the front to the B pillar and sort of protected you, although you had to do the lap belt yourself.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
|
Had to jump back in on the Helmet angle.
If one does not want to wear a helmet while riding, thats their business, I have no issues with full face, half, beanie, or Kaiser style with a spike on top. Wear what you like. However suggesting that a full face helmet would cause more injury than any other type is very misguided, especially when the scientific data backing that up is nothing more than "well my mate snapped his neck wearing a full-face, while I only got a bruised chin while wearing my baseball cap".
You would also be surprised at the people who don't wear a belt because they feel it is better to be "thrown clear" of a car than to be strapped in it,why?...."Cos their uncle walked away from a car crash without a scratch after he was ejected mid rollover".
You only have to work in Emergency services for a year or two to witness a wide variety of accidents and the aftermath. I have lost count of the amount of car and motorcycle accident I have responded to. From my short time in the field and my own, very un-scientific, eyeball surveys, I will choose an airbag equipped car with seatbelts and a full-face helmet with leathers.
Choose what you like, but save the justifications as you will only be convincing yourself, the one person who doesn't need convincing.
|
>>>>>I will choose....a full-face helmet with leathers.
Where I live, with ambient temps in the 30 C's and humidity up around 80%, no way Jose, I'm afraid. Dehydration would be a bigger hazard!
On an expressway everyone's going in the same direction = minimum risk. So why bother. In town risk is greater of course, but then it's a risk of sorts getting out of bed in the mornings anyways.
|
>>they had motorised seatbelts
I remember those. If you tried to get out of the car too quickly you could lynch yourself. However, they didn't work because nobody put the lap belt on so they all smashed their knees as they slid down and into the dashboard.
|
|
To get back to the original post, one can deduce that 42% of all people killed in car crashes were wearing seatbelts.
|
Whilst I agree there used to be resistance to wearing seatbelts in the USA, I believe that things have change a great deal in recent times.
In my(recent) experiences the great majority now wear them.
|
Some interesting stats on helmets and accidents:
A Summary of the Hurt Study Findings: Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures
A motorcycle accident study offers you and your students a wealth of information about accidents and how to avoid them. The "Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures," is a study conducted by the University of Southern California (USC). With funds from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, researcher Harry Hurt investigated almost every aspect of 900 motorcycle accidents in the Los Angeles area.
Additionally, Hurt and his staff analyzed 3,600 motorcycle traffic accident reports in the same geographic area. Reprinted here for your information and use are the findings. The final report is several hundred pages. If you choose to have this document in your resource library, the order information is: Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures, Volume 1: Technical Report, Hurt, H.H., Ouellet, J.V. and Thom, D.R., Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90007, Contract No. DOT HS-5-01160, January 1981 (Final Report)
This document is available through: The National Technical Information Service, Springfield, Virginia 22161 "Motorcycle Accident Cause Factors and Identification of Countermeasures" Findings Throughout the accident and exposure data there are special observations which relate to accident and injury causation and characteristics of the motorcycle accidents studied.
These findings are summarized as follows:
1. Approximately three-fourths of these motorcycle accidents involved collision with another vehicle, which was most usually a passenger automobile.
2. Approximately one-fourth of these motorcycle accidents were single vehicle accidents involving the motorcycle colliding with the roadway or some fixed object in the environment.
3. Vehicle failure accounted for less than 3% of these motorcycle accidents, and most of those were single vehicle accidents where control was lost due to a puncture flat.
4. In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide out and fall due to over braking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering.
5. Roadway defects (pavement ridges, potholes, etc.) were the accident cause in 2% of the accidents; animal involvement was 1% of the accidents.
6. In the multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.
7. The failure of motorists to detect and recognize motorcycles in traffic is the predominating cause of motorcycle accidents. The driver of the other vehicle involved in collision with the motorcycle did not see the motorcycle before the collision, or did not see the motorcycle until too late to avoid the collision.
8. Deliberate hostile action by a motorist against a motorcycle rider is a rare accident cause. The most frequent accident configuration is the motorcycle proceeding straight then the automobile makes a left turn in front of the oncoming motorcycle.
9. Intersections are the most likely place for the motorcycle accident, with the other vehicle violating the motorcycle right-of-way, and often violating traffic controls.
10. Weather is not a factor in 98% of motorcycle accidents.
11. Most motorcycle accidents involve a short trip associated with shopping, errands, friends, entertainment or recreation, and the accident is likely to happen in a very short time close to the trip origin.
12. The view of the motorcycle or the other vehicle involved in the accident is limited by glare or obstructed by other vehicles in almost half of the multiple vehicle accidents.
13. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is a critical factor in the multiple vehicle accidents, and accident involvement is significantly reduced by the use of motorcycle headlamps (on in daylight) and the wearing of high visibility yellow, orange or bright red jackets. (Note: the statistics which have just been released here in Australia - August 1996, DO NOT SHOW that "Lights on" legislation has worked!)
14. Fuel system leaks and spills were present in 62% of the motorcycle accidents in the post-crash phase. This represents an undue hazard for fire.
15. The median pre-crash speed was 29.8 mph, and the median crash speed was 21.5 mph, and the one-in-a-thousand crash speed is approximately 86 mph.
16. The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three- fourths of all accident hazards are within 45 degrees of either side of straight ahead.
17. Conspicuity of the motorcycle is most critical for the frontal surfaces of the motorcycle and rider.
18. defects related to accident causation are rare and likely to be due to deficient or defective maintenance.
19. Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly over-represented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly under represented. Although the majority of the accident-involved motorcycle riders are male (96%), the female motorcycle riders are significantly over represented in the accident data.
20. Craftsmen, laborers, and students comprise most of the accident-involved motorcycle riders. Professionals, sales workers, and craftsmen are under represented and laborers, students and unemployed are over- represented in the accidents.
21. Motorcycle riders with previous recent traffic citations and accidents are over represented in the accident data.
22. T he motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents.
23. More than half of the accident-involved motorcycle riders had less than 5 months experience on the accident motorcycle, although the total street riding experience was almost 3 years. Motorcycle riders with dirt bike experience are significantly under represented in the accident data.
24. Lack of attention to the driving task is a common factor for the motorcyclist in an accident.
25. Almost half of the fatal accidents show alcohol involvement.
26. Motorcycle riders in these accidents showed significant collision avoidance problems. Most riders would over brake and skid the rear wheel, and under brake the front wheel greatly reducing collision avoidance deceleration. The ability to counter steer and swerve was essentially absent.
27. The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action.
28. Passenger-carrying motorcycles are not over represented in the accident area.
29. The driver of the other vehicles involved in collision with the motorcycle are not distinguished from other accident populations except that the ages of 20 to 29, and beyond 65 are over represented. Also, these drivers are generally unfamiliar with motorcycles.
30. The large displacement motorcycles are under represented in accidents but they are associated with higher injury severity when involved in accidents.
31. Any effect of motorcycle color on accident involvement is not determinable from these data, but is expected to be insignificant because the frontal surfaces are most often presented to the other vehicle involved in the collision.
32. Motorcycles equipped with fairings and windshields are under represented in accidents, most likely because of the contribution to conspicuity and the association with more experienced and trained riders.
33. Motorcycle riders in these accidents were significantly without motorcycle license, without any license, or with license revoked.
34. Motorcycle modifications such as those associated with the semi-chopper or cafe racer are definitely over represented in accidents.
35. The likelihood of injury is extremely high in these motorcycle accidents-98% of the multiple vehicle collisions and 96% of the single vehicle accidents resulted in some kind of injury to the motorcycle rider; 45% resulted in more than a minor injury.
36. Half of the injuries to the somatic regions were to the ankle-foot, lower leg, knee, and thigh-upper leg.
37. Crash bars are not an effective injury countermeasure; the reduction of injury to the ankle-foot is balanced by increase of injury to the thigh-upper leg, knee, and lower leg. 38.The use of heavy boots, jacket, gloves, etc., is effective in preventing or reducing abrasions and lacerations, which are frequent but rarely severe injuries.
39. Groin injuries were sustained by the motorcyclist in at least 13% of the accidents, which typified by multiple vehicle collision in frontal impact at higher than average speed.
40. Injury severity increases with speed, alcohol involvement and motorcycle size.
41. Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed in impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.
42. Approximately 50% of the motorcycle riders in traffic were using safety helmets but only 40% of the accident-involved motorcycle riders were wearing helmets at the time of the accident.
43. Voluntary safety helmet use by those accident-involved motorcycle riders was lowest for untrained, uneducated, young motorcycle riders on hot days and short trips.
44. The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.
45. The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention of reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.
46. Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of pre crash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.
47. FMVSS 218 provides a high level of protection in traffic accidents, and needs modification only to increase coverage at the back of the head and demonstrate impact protection of the front of full facial coverage helmets, and insure all adult sizes for traffic use are covered by the standard.
48. Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.
49. The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.
50. There is not liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had less neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury.
51. Sixty percent of the motorcyclists were not wearing safety helmets at the time of the accident. Of this group, 26% said they did not wear helmets because they were uncomfortable and inconvenient, and 53% simply had no expectation of accident involvement.
52. Valid motorcycle exposure data can be obtained only from collection at the traffic site. Motor vehicle or driver license data presents information which is completely unrelated to actual use.
53. Less than 10% of the motorcycle riders involved in these accidents had insurance of any kind to provide medical care or replace property
|
Yes, that study is interesting and well oft-quoted.
It is however academic, and I prefer the horse's mouth, so to speak.
www.easyrider.com/~frankie/faq.htm
|
I don't go by what I read on the internet, be it Hurt or Horse.
I make my choices based on personal, first-hand observation and experiences.
|
Exactly. And those bikers want the same freedom of choice as opposed to having it taken away from them.
|
|
Yes, Clarkson was talking about the DB7 wasn't he?
|
|
