I see that the new 3 series is fitted with intelligent brake lights, you know the ones that shine brighter the harder you press the pedal. Hardly rocket science but BMW seem to think so with the sales pitchs i've read today.
My point is what's the point?
Accidents waiting to happen me thinks.
*sorry mate for rear ending you, didn't see ya brake lights..*
hmmm..
|
I know it's a cliche but this is a classic "answer to a question that nobody has asked".
I guess it's most useful for spiteful auto BMW owners [if any??] who can now press really hard on the brake when stopped at traffic lights to remind drivers of inferior brands behind what losers we are....
CF
[mods - please move to BMW bashing thread]
|
|
Also fitted to 1 series - IMHO a spare wheel would have been more useful! Next innovation should be brake lights which turn off after a set amount of time if the car isn't moving and there is a car behind the stopped car to prevent eyeball burnout as described above!
|
|
|
|
Brake lights above all need to be reliable, hence simple and robust in their arrangements. It does not seem good to be adding unecessary complications, probably electronic, which sooner or later (sooner with some makes of vehicle) will malfunction one way or another.
Indeed, accidents waiting to happen.
|
My all time absolute biggest pet driving hate of all time are people who put their hazards on when braking hard on motorways. Unless you don?t have any brake lights at all, please don?t bother, it?s information surplus to requirements (although it does inform us that you?re a smug duffer). Keep your hands on the wheel and concentrate on stopping your own car. The rest of us are not so stupid that we can?t understand what a series of lit up bake lights means.
Or perhaps you think you?re being helpful, in which case maybe you could take it one step further and adopt a system of big sponge fingers on long sticks which you could wave out of the windows in addition to your indicator lights to let us know which way you?re turning.
|
BBD,
Not sure I entirely agree. Hazard lights tend to indicate that the traffic is braking ot a standstill or close to it. I'll take any warning I can get. I'd rather one additional warning I didn't need then one I needed and didn't get.
|
I admit that maybe it?s an irrational pet hate but it does wind me up. But a sea of intensly, glowing brake lights is warning enough for me, I?m generally not the kind of person who drive?s too close anyway.
Incidently, somebody posted a note the other day saying something along the lines that if we all drove faster on motorways, we?d spend less time on them and there?d be less congestion. But I read a report some time ago to the the contrary. It said that the faster you drive, the disproportionately larger gap you have to leave between you and the car in front and consequently the carriageway can cope with fewer cars per hour. I?m inventing figures now, but the general gist was that at 50mph a safe distance might be 50 feet, but at 70mph it wouldn?t be 70 feet, it would be 150 feet and so on (a none linear scale).
So while our cries for higher speed limits may be warrented from "the relative safety of a modern vehicle" point of view, as far as getting there in a shorter time, that may not be the case. The report did give an optimum speed, but I forget what it was...
|
I admit that maybe it?s an irrational pet hate but it does wind me up. But a sea of intensly, glowing brake lights is warning enough for me, I?m generally not the kind of person who drive?s too close anyway.
I suspect most drivers wouldn't have the thought to do something like that, it may actually be that the car is fitted with some sort of Emergency Braking System, I'm sure there are some makes of cars which are designed to activate the hazards if it detects an emergency brake situation.
May not be their fault at all...
Also, about the BMW thing, I think it sounds like a great idea, the lights have a relatively normal brightness under ordinary braking and glow brighter under heavy braking, apart from the fact that they *may* go faulty later in life, how on earth are they an accident waiting to happen? About time all cars had it fitted if you ask me...
Blue
|
|
|
|
My all time absolute biggest pet driving hate of all time are people who put their hazards on when braking hard on motorways.
Big Bad Dave,
I'm so with you on this. Problem is spare a thought for us poor Citroen C3 owners whose cars have this as a standard feature... Brake hard from speed and the car AUTOMATICALLY puts on the hazards for a 6 second burst... It's SO embarassing, and there's NO WAY to override it. Oh the shame -- you end up ooking like some health and safety fool when it's not even your fault!
Rich
|
|
|
On the subject of use of hazards when braking hard on motorways, it's an practice that is recommended in the highway code:
"You MUST NOT use hazard warning lights whilst driving unless you are on a motorway or unrestricted dual carriageway and you need to warn drivers behind you of a hazard or obstruction ahead."
|
|
|
|
|
|
A specialist motorcycle builder came up with this idea about 25 years ago. The rear light was made up of about 30 separate bulbs - the harder you braked, the more bulbs lit up.
|
The rear light was made up of about 30 separate bulbs
I bet Halfords were rubbing their hands in anticipation of that hitting the market!
|
|
I doubt Halfords were. BMW maybe, you don't think you are going to be able to change bulbs do you? Oh no. That's a job dealers want.
|
|
|
|
|
What a daft gimmick, Cos my eyes have a built in lux meter, so obviously I can tell what is Hard braking and what is soft braking!!! Best invention for brake lights was the third high level light. Apart from that if they are "on" the car in front is stopping/slowing, if he has smoke coming off of his tyres he is stopping hard. E.O.S.
|
|
|
|
I see that the new 3 series is fitted with intelligent brake lights
So have a lot of current Vauxhalls. Astra, Vectra, Signum, to name but a few. But they call it "Adaptive Brake Lights"
|
So have a lot of current Vauxhalls. Astra, Vectra, Signum, to name but a few. But they call it "Adaptive Brake Lights"
Good, that backs up my opinion that it should be fitted to all cars, and indeed, if Vauxhall are doing it, then Ford et all will follow suit soon.
Blue
|
Good, that backs up my opinion that it should be fitted to all cars, and indeed, if Vauxhall are doing it, then Ford et all will follow suit soon.
Does that mean that forthcoming models from Ford et al will also feature a bonnet that looks like the driver forgot to shut it?
|
Sorry, maybe I'm being dizzy, but eh?
Blue
|
Sorry, maybe I'm being dizzy, but eh?
ND is refering to the overlarge gap between bonnet and grille
vauxhall.co.uk/gallery/images/New_Astra/exterior/D...g
|
Presumably the BMWs will come with indicators fitted as standard next?
My current pet theory is that if everyone drives within 2 inches of the bumper in front, there won't be any more dangerous crashes. Obviously, this would require big, soft, bouncy bumpers, but the relative speeds of collision would be so low that the cars would just bounce off each other.
|
|
|
Thanks for clearing that one up!
Again, maybe I'm gonna buck a trend or something, but I quite like the Astra front end, in fact, *spit spit* I quite like the styling of the entire Astra, shame it doesn't drive as well as it's rivals or it might seriously be a car to consider for the future.
Blue
|
|
|
|
|
No Do$h - completely agree with you about the Astra bonnet. That is one strange look - certain colours seem to make the gap look worse. On many occasions I have looked and thought about telling the owner the bonnet is on the safety catch.
JAJ
|
|
|
|
|
But they call it "Adaptive Brake Lights"
Someone needs to get Vauxhalls marketing people, and crack their heads together. That goes with their "Interactive Driving System" does it?
|
Te buses around here have intelligent LED brake lights.
When they stop, less LEDs are lit, if they brake hard, they're brighter, than when just feathering the brakes. I also like the way the LED indicators simulate the gradual dimming and brighness on them by lighting and switching the LEDs on and off in a fast tidal effect. (hard to explain) So what BMW have was done on the buses about 2 years ago!
|
"So what BMW have was done on the buses about 2 years ago!"
Oh goody, I would love to see a "bendy BMW" - Even more so when it catches fire.
BTW where can I get one of these big sponge hands on sticks with fingers attached?
|
>> BTW where can I get one of these big sponge hands on sticks with fingers attached?
I'd have a look around the Kenny Everett props department to start with.
I wonder if we'll see a law case in America soon along the lines of "your brake lights were only a little bit bright so I didn't brake hard and hit you"
Expert witnesses will be called on relative brightness levels, hands on a luminous watch and the centre of the sun will be named as exhibits....
|
If this forum was around when airbags first became standard fitment on the new 1993 Ford Mondeo I'm sure there would have been a queue of people waiting to criticise it.
Still haven't heard a reason why they are likely to cause lots of accidents, the best that has been mentioned so far is that they might break, even that isn't very good, airbag systems go wrong but you don't hear people complaining about them very often.
Blue
|
|
|
|
|
|
It's a shame BMWs don't have intlligent indicator bulbs as well (or intelligent drivers either).;-)
|
(or intelligent drivers either)
ouch...!
|
Clio
Corsa
Mondeo
406
Almera
What have they all got in common? Yup, all seen making turns, changing lanes or negotiating roundabouts without indicating on my 3 mile drive from the station yesterday evening.
So why pick on BMW?
|
Clio Corsa Mondeo 406 Almera What have they all got in common? Yup, all seen making turns, changing lanes or negotiating roundabouts without indicating on my 3 mile drive from the station yesterday evening. So why pick on BMW?
Courtesy cars ?
;-)
|
|
|
|
|
All we need now for BMWs is intelligent fog lights, as intelligent drivers aren't part of the equation!
|
Still no decent answer to my question.
This thread is a thinly veiled excuse for more stereotypical brand bashing me thinks...
Blue
|
|
They seem to be a good idea(brake lights) in principal. It should be possible to design the control circuitry so that a failure of the progressive system would result in a failsafe of the lights always working. This would leave only the normal switch/bulb failures disabling the system completly.
|
|
|
|
I have an 8 O levels, 4 A levels an MA and a LLB but am not intellegent enough to drive....now where is the indicator stick ?
|
"I have an 8 O levels"
I assume your haul of "O" levels did not include English.
;-)
|
|
Still no decent answer to my question. This thread is a thinly veiled excuse for more stereotypical brand bashing me thinks... Blue
I don't think it will cause any extra accidents (other than if it goes wrong which it's more likely to do than a simple system), but I don't think it's a good way to do it. As said, an extra light might help, or get the lights to flash but most people won't pick up on different light intensity.
Sounds like someone's a bit sensitive to BMW bashing me thinks...
|
|
|
|
|
I see that the new 3 series is fitted with intelligent brake lights, you know the ones that shine brighter the harder you press the pedal. Hardly rocket science but BMW seem to think so with the sales pitchs i've read today. My point is what's the point? Accidents waiting to happen me thinks.
>>*sorry mate for rear ending you, didn't see ya brake lights..*
The BMW brake lights I have seen, come on and look like normal rear lights being switched on. My first reaction when seeing them was "Why has he turned his lights on" rather than he has his foot on the brakes.
I think it is a very bad design and will result in more rear end shunts than if normal brake lights were fitted.
|
So the high level centre brake light didn't give it away? :-)
I still haven't seen a new 3 series on the roads yet, are they fitted to other models in the BMW range?
Blue
|
There is an accessory advertised in a 1955 copy of Practical Motorist looking like a small traffic light mounted inside the rear window. The red light comes on when braking, the green when accelerating, and the amber when easing off the accelerator but not actually braking.
On the face of it it sounded quite a good way of automatically indicating the driver's intentions or actions.
|
|
|
|
IMO the concept is a very good one, however the implementation could be better....
Correct me if I'm wrong but BMW's "Intelligent Brake lights" use the existing lamps but simply use increasing intensity to signal increased braking force - this is where I think the system is flawed - In most conditions, people will only register the fact that the brake lights have come "on", the increase/decrease in intensity may not be that discernable, certainly in bright sunlight, fog etc.
However, if they used extra lights, lets say in a strip across the top rear windscreen, perhaps replacing the 3rd brake light, where on "normal" braking just the middle section is lit, similar to the currently existing 3rd brake light. When braking hard the whole strip lights up - this would provide an instantly recognisable signal to differentiate between normal and emergency type situations.
Of course you can take this concept further .... imagine a dummy that pops out of the boot "jack-in-the-box" style holding a placard "HIT THE BRAKES AS%@£&# !!" ......or a massive rear bumper airbag (foam-filled?) that deploys to cushion the impact of a rear end shunt.....
|
I remember seeing a car on "Tomorrow's World" which had brake lights in a line across the full width of the rear. When the brakes were applied, the 2 outer ones lit up as normal, but as more and more pressure was applied to the brake pedal, more lights lit up from each side, until they eventually met in the middle. This may have been the thing Madux referred to having been designed by a motorcycle builder, but it was demonstrated on a car.
This was about 30 years ago. If it seems a good idea now, strange to think it never took off before. I've got some vague feeling it was stymied by legislation, or inertia of legislators to modify the rules.
(Hmmm... but weren't the Sierra Sapphire's brake lights too far-in from the sides of the car?
"Oh well, we'll have to turn a blind eye now there's already thousands rolled off the production line")
|
(Hmmm... but weren't the Sierra Sapphire's brake lights too far-in from the sides of the car?
Not to mention the fact that on "older" models, they started blinking when you put the indicators on....
|
|
|
(Hmmm... but weren't the Sierra Sapphire's brake lights too far-in from the sides of the car? "Oh well, we'll have to turn a blind eye now there's already thousands rolled off the production line")
IRC RR also had brake lights in the same position.
The Sierra Sapphire had rear lights with twin fillaments that were used as fog lights rather than the usual brake lights.
|
|
|
When the brakes were applied, the 2 outer ones lit up as normal, but as more and more pressure was applied to the brake pedal, more lights lit up from each side, until they eventually met in the middle. This may have been the thing Madux referred to having been designed by a motorcycle builder, but it was demonstrated on a car.
Thats exactly how it worked - they were tiny little lamps (pre-LED) that were "borrowed" from erm, a well known aircraft establishment.
I think the problem with BMW's system may be that there is a legal maximum for brake-light wattage, so you can't start with 'Bright' and then get 'Brighter'!
|
|
|
|
Quite right about the legislation angle - BMW had to petition for current EU legislation to be changed as it would have made their system illegal.
|
|
|
|
|
