As we approach both, a forecasted cold snap and the peak Xmas travel period,
What would you reckon as a safe lower threshold temperature (ambient ) for travelling on UK motorways / A roads ?
(I say M?ways and A roads, as on "smaller" roads the conditions may vary due to road surface, surrounding areas - i.e. rural/urban etc. etc...)
I?m planning to do London to Inverness in my trusty Xantia TD Estate(M1-M6-A74-M80-A9) over the coming weekend and it may involve some night driving, but the weather forecast is giving me serious doubts about it ....
I know that countries that experience extreme winter climates such as Northern Europe and Northern North America are more geared up for travelling in sub-zero conditions. Motoring seems to grind to a halt (or at least become dangerous) in the UK when the thermometer reaches below -1/2°C.
Chad.R
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A lot of the problem seems to be that people do not adjust their driving style when the weather changes in this way - Driving too close in the fog, driving the same speed round bends as in the middle of summer and this (IMHO) is the cause of many a winter accident. I would happily drive on the motorway at -5, especially at night, because I will be taking my time and also for most of the way, the road will have been salted. Because of this and the reasonably stable road surface on the Mway I'd be more bothered about fog than the temperature.
Personally I think everyone should be forced to ride a motorbike for 12 months before being allowed to drive a car as after you've fallen off a few times on slippery bends etc you really start to appreciate how road conditions change through the year! :o)
PS. Instead of doing M1, M6 which I assume you mean get on the M6 after Watford Gap, continue up the M1 to I think Junction 22a (not sure about that) but it's the A50 and signposted to Derby. Get on this and stay on it til you see signs for the M6 which you follow to join it at junction 16. Beautiful well kept moving road which avoids the awful jams in B'ham completely.
Take care!
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"PS. Instead of doing M1, M6 which I assume you mean get on the M6 after Watford Gap, continue up the M1 to I think Junction 22a (not sure about that) but it's the A50 and signposted to Derby. Get on this and stay on it til you see signs for the M6 which you follow to join it at junction 16. Beautiful well kept moving road which avoids the awful jams in B'ham completely."
Yes, I agree. This turn 22a, off the M1, avoids completely, that horror trip around Birmingham. The new A50 road is splendid and, coming from London, it would be a suitable time to stop off at the new service area just beside East Midlands airport,before dropping down onto the A50 link to the M6
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Sorry, I think the junction is 23a (not 22a)
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Better in the peak, unless using Donington services, to stay on the M1 to J24. 23a routes you onto the A453 paralell to the M1 but closer to the Airport thence to the roundabout by 24 where the traffic lights conspire against you. Note though that there are no signs for Stoke or the A50 at J24.
Also arguably better at the other end to go south on the A500 (known locally as the D road) and join the M6 at J15 avoiding any congestion in the Potteries
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But if you are travelling late at night - the M6 is usually clear - I save about 15 - 20 minutes using the M6 rather than the A50. I completely agree that this is the best route in the daytime though.
Andrew
>
> "PS. Instead of doing M1, M6 which I assume you mean get on
> the M6 after Watford Gap, continue up the M1 to I think
> Junction 22a (not sure about that) but it's the A50 and
> signposted to Derby. Get on this and stay on it til you see
> signs for the M6 which you follow to join it at junction 16.
> Beautiful well kept moving road which avoids the awful jams
> in B'ham completely."
> Yes, I agree. This turn 22a, off the M1, avoids completely,
> that horror trip around Birmingham. The new A50 road is
> splendid and, coming from London, it would be a suitable time
> to stop off at the new service area just beside East Midlands
> airport,before dropping down onto the A50 link to the M6
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Totally agree with your second para Dan. In my younger days, all the kids rode bicycles and motorbikes before going on to cars, mainly because very few could afford to do otherwise. I believe that experience gives you a lot more regard for other road users.
Nowadays, it seems that most youngsters get their first car driving lesson on their 17th birthday. Of course, mum & dad won't allow them to have a motorcycle 'because they're too dangerous'. Maybe, but a lot less dangerous to the general public than a car being driven recklessly.
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ditto Dan J. Well said.
You never lose your biker's instincts about road sufaces.
One nasty one is the tendency of quite manageable rain/slush to freeze as you gain height, turning into nasty surface ice below a deceptive cover of slush.
Unless you equip your car with an altimeter (!!), you cannot notice the climb, hence the drop in temperature or unless you monitor any outside air temp. gauges.
A classic situation of this is the M1 north of Leicester between 21 and 22. It must climb about the best part of 1000ft on a very gentle grade. Enough to make significant changes to lying contaminants (slush becomes ice).
Also gritting of roads can be inconsistent or at worst ineffective. Underbridges can cause the road surface above them to freeze. the yanks very thoughtfully have signs about this.
Bends which lie in the shadow of trees can also remain contaminated as the sun does not help melt any ice/snow.
I should stay in bed.
However, statisdticlly, most people die in bed, so it is a very dangerous place to be..
rg
P.S Dan, please don't tell anyone else about the A50. as I want to keep using this road as it is...
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rg bhaji wrote:
> P.S Dan, please don't tell anyone else about the A50. as I
> want to keep using this road as it is...
That thought did occur to me after I posted it :-) Everybody, the A50 is a dreadful road, please ignore earlier posting!
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A50. To add another perspective, the last two miles of the Kegworth end were ploughed through countyside I grew up in and loved. It made quite a negative impact and totally changed the character of the area.
(I even did some courting directly where the A50 now runs at Shardlow. Should be declared an SSSI due to rare mating activity of endagered species)
Progress and new roads have a price...
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To be honest Chad the most difficult conditions are in my opinion when its just around freezing ie down to -3C, that is when it is most slippery and conditions change almost every few hundred yards no matter what sort of road you are on. Plus as Dan says most drivers will not have adjusted into winter mode.
Perversely I find it far easier to drive when its really cold and there is enough snow to really get a grip but not so much that the depth of snow stops you. The difficulty of course is you will be heading over some highish ground whichever route you take and there is no substitute for being informed and prepared.
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Taken carefully (lower speeds, bigger gaps, extra anticipation, no sudden movements) treated M and A roads ought to be acceptable.
Most important, if you have doubts about the conditions or your ability then stop, DON'T "Press On".
One little trick I used to use when I was doing high mileages in doubtful conditions was to occasionally accelerate hard for an instant and see if I got wheelspin. If the wheels DID spin then braking and steering were becoming marginal and lower speed etc. was indicated.
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Neary half a century ago I was happily touring on the bike, at headlight-in-the-dark speed, on the old Edinburgh road out of Glasgow, on a bright dry frosty night. Suddenly I saw on the opposite carriageway a rotating beam like a lighthouse. Deducing that it could only be projected from a rotating vehicle, I put a tentative toe down. No resistance! I squeezed clutch and let things slow down at their own pace, which took forever, and continued in the gravel at the road edge. I was by then far past that other vehicle, so I could only hope he finished off the road before the next victim of that iced up patch arrived.
A friend coming down from Inverness on four wheels, proceeding similarly, found himself on glass below one of these wig-wag railway bridges and proceeded through a hedge, astonishingly with no bumping or resistance; on investigation it was apparent that all those preceding him had created a highway, whereupon the priority became to leave the field before the next arrival.
You never know!
Seasons Greetings,
Tomo
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I have experience of driving in sub-zero cold weather in N.England and Scotland. Apart from the hazard of accidents, skids, etc. which are in most cases in your control ( the one exception I can think of is black ice on which I have had a skid at 15mph), your main worry is the lack of planning by highway agencies.
If you must travel, go well prepared to be caught out by untreated roads or large unpredicted snowfalls. Carry snow chains for your tyres. If you are stuck in snow, make sure you have plenty of food and warm/dry clothing, plus tools to dig yourself out as well as to draw attention of passing vehicles if you need help. A car in a field covered in snow is not easily spotted by passing traffic.
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dont tell everyone they'll all be using it soon!!!!
one of the little secrets of the Midlands & North. the only way to get East west without wasting half a lifetime time on the M6 to M5 section. roll on the Toll Road.
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You gotta love that A50/A500 route, I've been doing it for nearly 3 years on my regular trips to Uni and back. I tried going through B'ham once and vowed never to do it again.
It is also a great road for *ahem* spirited *ahem* driving when conditions are suitable.
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Regularly doing Aberdeen-Shropshire/Lancashire for 20 years have had some severe weather experiences. Worst was around Stirling on M9; first signs were through steering- that sudden lightness, no feel, ice! Then in darkness seeing cars in front suddenly heading up the embankments- seriously scary. Feet off all pedals, two hands on wheel and just hope you slow down before spinning off! You can go from warm to freezing conditions in this area within a few miles. (Best 'option' for car spec is outside temp indicator!)
Load up your screen wash with deicer, and keep a water spray bottle in car. I have had to spray windscreen through open window due to sub zero tempertatures on M6, combination of wet road surface, usual trucks, clear skies and low sun. You must have had that experience where you dare not touch the washers?
A74 also can be treacherous' M74M fantastic road but can lure you into high speeds due to negligible traffic.
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good point; thanks for advice
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I agree with Stuart that grip improves with very low temperature. Last winter driving in SW scotland, my outside air temerature reading went from -4°C to -12°C within about 10 miles. The grip improved noticeably. I think this might be because at lower temp, the snow does not melt due to the weight of the car on it, instead staying 'dry'.
The outside air sensor also makes you aware of how much temperature can vary over a small distance - those weather forecast charts give a misleading impression! Definitely worth having.
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Couple of slightly conflicting comments above about driving on very slippery surfaces,
Tomo said > "squeezed clutch"
Mark A said > "feet off all pedals"
I sit with Tomo here, if it's that slippery disengage clutch as the compression braking from the engine will cause the driven wheels to slip rather than turn at the proper speed.
Was taught this technique years ago by a Scandinavian rally driver, will not mention his name as that would be thought bragging I feel.
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Stigg Bjornesorensorensson, no doubt?
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*Stig*B is right about the need to de-clutch on a wickedly slippery surface.
When was that really bad year for snow/ice.....when it affected Central England in a way only the North usually experiences.....1978ish?
Anyway the local City roads became so bad by day two the transmission drag on my GS Citroen was enough to lose steering control.
So you're on an incline in town, can't use the brakes and even engine braking is out. At least de-clutching gives you back steering so there can be a choice as to what you hit to slow down.
When conditions ar that bad it's really weird seeing cars completely out of control at 10mph.
David
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Another good tip I learnt from a 'skid-school' , as well as de-clutching & 'steering into the skid', was to LOOK in the Direction You Wish to Go, NOT at the solid object you are sliding towards !
It helps - not sure WHY, but it does.
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We had a dose of freezing rain here in Wiltshire a couple of winters back. Air temperature was just above freezing point, after a freezing night, and the roads and pavements were obviously well below freezing. They were covered with a thick layer of clear ice and it was impossible to walk - literally. I watched a couple of neighbours coming down our road, which is a slight incline, sitting on their backsides because they couldn't stand up. I have never seen a road so slippery
This didn't stop our heighbour getting her car out, though. She slid down her drive and into the road, stopped, and before she could try to drive away, the car started to move sideways. It then proceeded gracefully down the road, completely sideways, with her sawing at the wheel and alternately braking and revving the engine, finally stopping when it bumped into the kerb outside our house.
After another bout of spinning wheels, I walked out, and she asked if I'd mind if she left her car there! No problem said I, not in my way, adding that I didn't think she had much choice. She slipped and slithered up the road, and shortly after hubby appeared and proceeded to dose the road with a water/antifreeze mixture, and finally got the car back on their drive. He was obviously concerned that someone coming down the road may have joined their car at the kerb.
regards
john
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I recall seeing one of Jeremy beadle's home video shows, with a dustcart sliding down a close, on the ice, demolishing a small tree and crunching a car.
As I bask in the sun, i can honestly say I don't miss the ice and snow at all...
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Ian (CT) wrote:
> "I was trying to turn it on with the traction-on-ice button".
No comment :o)
Stu.
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Well, we don't get much ice in Cape Town ...
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Thank you for all your advice - I'll be keeping a keen eye on the forecast for the next few days.
Chad.R
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It's bad here in Essex this morning. Rain last night followed by an overnight frost. Result, ice and a spate of accidents.
As it happens I am taking a day's holiday today. Boy, am I glad. I don't fancy the bike in these conditions.
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>>I recall seeing one of Jeremy beadle's home video shows,
You watch Jeremy Beadle ? Oh dear.
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Only on video.
that way i can fast-forward past the annoying beardy, to get to the funny bits.
Any joy with the dentist yet, by the way?
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No doubt Andy Bairstow will tell us of driving in eis regen or glatter (spelling?) conditions in Germany. Only experienced this once, and again in USA and don't want a repeat thank you very much.
Its when you get freezing rain falling on surfaces which are already cold and every surface gets coated in a few mm of ice very quickly. Even with the engine hot and the heater full on you can't stop the screen from freezing over and you just slide sideways into the kerb due to the camber.
Be grateful that does not happen in UK. There is a meteorological explanation of the conditions needed to get this, no doubt some whizz will avail us of the details.
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Stuart
It's Christmas, so I'll say 'Oh yes it does!'
See my post above. Neighbours Polo wasn't the only casualty - there was also the Volvo a couple of roads away neatly parked through the garden fence.
Regards
John
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John,
Yes quite true, but you must admit that it is rare.
At least we know we won't get a "Oh no it doesn't" from DW as he skived out of Snow White.
Season's Greetings All, keep safe over Christmas.
God Jul
Stuart
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