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I have just got back from being driven around in India for 2 weeks - in coach, car, autorickshaw and pedal version. It's anarchy: everyman for himself, no use of mirrors, constant use of horns to advise others of your position, only occasional stopping at red lights, cows goats camels and the odd elephant to be negotiated, two parents plus 3 kids often seen on one moped,I twice saw lorries going the wrong way on dual carriageways, etc. But they do drive on the left!(and on the right, and the bit in the middle.). It puts all the carping about our driving into perspective. What other driving styles have BRs experienced abroad?
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Using the horn in India isn't simply to warn other road users of your presence. With taxi drivers in particular, it is used as an indication of how important they perceive their passenger to be. The more important they think you are the more frequently they will use the horn. As far as "anarchy" goes, everyone in India seems to understand the rule that might is right. Buses give way to trucks, cars give way to buses, mopeds give way to cars, everyone gives ways to cows and it seems to work very well.
The thing that really brings a smile to my face is the way that cows in India also obey traffic lights. The first time I saw this was in Bangalore. My hotel room looked out over the hotel gardens to a busy intersection. If a light went to red when a cow was approaching, she/he would stop and stare at the lights until it turned to green and then continue sedately on it's way. Maybe we should outsource driver training to Bangalore bovines? They appear to have more roadsense than quite a few drivers in Hants/Berks.
The worst place I've experienced is Mexico City because I couldn't work out any pattern at all to driver behaviour.
Kevin...
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Cue Growler
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I suspect we are slightly more advanced in the Philippines, but not much. No cows anyway, but we have a lot of shiny new cars all bought on credit and being shown off. One finds it so much more convenient to purchase a driver's licence than go through the tedium of qualifying for one, d'ye see.
If the right lane traffic is at a standstill, no worries, drive down the left one. That eventually ends in a Mexican standstill so that oncoming traffic cannot move. If there is an enforcer on duty (highly unlikely if it is a hot day, pay-day or lunch-time) he/she may help sort it out. Some minutes/hours later it clears itself out when one individual decides to chicken out and give way. Pathetic feller. My daughter's school bus once took 13 hours for a 16km journey in those circumstances. Only 3 people on a motorbike? I've seen 5, plus a baby mounted on the handlebars.
Parking a problem? No worries, use the pavement. Hoot at any irritating pedestrians who want to usurp your pavement space. Or double park, or triple park, or quadruple park. Just watch out for those guys with the fake tow trucks or you may not see your ride again, ever. It'll be a load of spare parts being sold in Chinatown at fire-sale prices within 24 hours.
Traffic lights are for reference only and shall be ignored unless there's a cop around. Provided he doesn't have a motorbike, in which case they can still be safely ignored. Sometimes all three are alight at once: red, yellow and green. Well it's a democracy. Everyone should get a fair shake, right?
Not unusual to see 3 policeman on a Chinese 125c bike, no helmets. They then stop me and book me for not wearing one. I say why aren't you guys wearing them? They reply that would interfere with our line of sight in case we have to shoot. Shoot what? Well, criminals, "holduppers" and miscreants sir, now give me your licence please. Luckily I've got about 8 local licences (that lady supervisor in the Land Transportation Office is very obliging since I got her daughter a nurse's job in UK).
Lights? SOP is not to have any if you're a bus. Adds to your road presence, you see. Increases the surprise factor. Jeepney drivers often don't have batteries so they use their mates' vehicle to start themselves then ride around without lights. Indicators are only used by pussies -- to let the other guy know what you're doing gives the game away. Sort of automotive poker game.
If you are a congressman, a congressman's son or daughter, or a congressman's son's son or son's daughter or one of his mistresses or one of his progeny by them or can somehow remotely trace your lineage to any of the above, you are completely exempt from any kind of traffic law whatsoever. Just climb aboard your Nissan Patrol, switch on the siren and go for it. Make sure your bodyguards are right behind in the other Nissan Patrol to bully any other annoying drivers out of your way.
Chinese scooters are cheap, so we have shoals of 12 and 13 year old little girls riding around on them. Don't knock one off, or else. You'll get stuck with a pedophile charge or something and that carries the death penalty. However if you do knock another pedestrian down, make sure you finish them off. Funeral expenses are cheaper than supporting the whole family for the next 65 years. Bus drivers are actually taught this. Watch out also for beggars who may throw their kid in front of you to claim money. Not nice but it's reality.
Beware of long distance trucks and buses. Their drivers take speed (crystal meth) to keep 'em awake. Bus drivers get paid on the number of passengers they collect, so they race each other. Since most of the rattle traps they drive already covered about a million miles running round Beijing or somewhere, they are best given a wide berth.
The Land Transportation Office issues on its website a list of traffic violations.
Few phrasings could be more indicative of Filipino culture than "failing to beat the red light". Then there is "crossing the line" (huh?) and "swerving". The latter is a catch-all for anything. Beware the 14th and the 28th of the month. These are the days before payday and the traffic cops (fondly known as "the crocodiles") will be out in force looking for beer money for the karaoke houses. As a "porriner" I am fair game. However I do speak some German so once ot twice I just sat there and asked questions auf Deutsch and demand they bring me an interpreter. This can work quite well, as by wasting their time; thus they are losing other revenue-raising opportunities.
If you do get caught you have to go to reclaim your licence and attend the "re-orientation seminar". No one I know has ever done this so it's a matter of negotiating with the cop. On a Harley you will seldom get stopped because it's presumed you are rich and important. Otherwise it's P500 or if GRowlette is with me it's P100.
A pal of mine recommended this: Call up one of your Filipino friends on your cellphone. This friend then poses as a senior person in the Ministry of Justice, demands the apprehending officer's name rank and number and then says he will consider reporting him as a "kotong" (crooked cop). Waving a Kodak disposable camera at the same time helps, he says.
Oddly enough, driving is quite amicable. Everyone knows the "system" anyway. You hit me up the back it's your fault. I hit you up the back it's my fault. I'm in a hurry to get to a wedding/funeral/baptism/golf tournament/my wife's gone into labour with our 9th child/appointment with my mistress so I've got my hazards on which means you have to give way to me. Ambulance with its lights and siren on wants to pass? No way he gets past me, he's just doing that to get home for lunch. I pull out of a side turning you have to give way to me whatever. I have a very important text message to send, how do I have time to look out for you? I can park where I like because that's the place I want to go to and walking 30 metres to the cash machine isn't an option. My grandma just died and the Snail-on-Mogadon progress of the white 1953 Cadillac hearse with 400 mourners walking behind and blocking up the entire highway is your problem, not mine. I'm driving a vehicle with government plates on so I can do what I like and you're only a porriner so I'll make a big problem for you if you give me a hard time. (Very few of us would enjoy the hospitality of the Bicutan Immigration Jail - Belmarsh must be a veritable Butlins by comparison).
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It's a hot day so I will have my driver park my Landcruiser under the trees in a non-parking space with the engine on and air-con running while I go and have a 3 hour boozy lunch with my golfing mates. Did I block you in in the car park? Oh sorry you had to wait so long, it's hot and I couldn't find a parking space near the mall entrance.
Oh I could go on but I post too much anyway.
Well the weather is warm, the beer is cold, and the women are beautiful......
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My son's girlfriend lives in Mexico City...if I ever get invited I'll keep your warning in mind!
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Driving in india is fun, flash your lights as you are about to overtake someone, to both warn/tell them and also oncoming traffic, honk your horn to say, i'm here/i'm overtaking/ i have right of way, and avoid busses and trucks at all costs. (since its touch and go if the local busus brakes are working/present :-)).
When things go pear shape on the highways of india though, they really do, if you are driving something like a Premier Padmini (Fiat 1100D) Maruti 800 (Suzuki Alto Mk2), and get hit/hit anything at 70kmph the carnage and the life loss is horrendous (since up to 6-7 people can be packed in).
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I have not experienced it myself but Lagos is reputed by most people I have spoken to who have been there to be the most anarchic traffic in the world.
My personal choice is Beijing in which every road seems like the M25 in rush hour with added bicycles literally by the thousands. The bicycle with trailer is the chinese equivalent of white van man , not as fast but five times as dangerous.
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Sao Paulo is probably the worst I've lived in, but there are other South American cities that come close.
SP is total anarchy. You get used to it and in the end manage it well, but for strangers its a nightmare. The most worrying facet is the Paulista's view that the other car will move out of the way. One company I know actually banned its staff from using company cars out of the state due to the amount that were getting killed by oncoming vehicle that did not move out of the way.
It cures you of road rage and agrressive tendancies though. A combination of two fairly equal forces;
1) You can get shot for threatening or abusing people
2) A fundamental realisation that life is too short
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OK OK Pavlovian response coming up Cardew. I have driven in India and certainly that description fits. What always got me in India was those one track country roads and the chicken you played with oncoming trucks to see who would put two wheels in the dirt first. Not to mention the damn cyclists with mountains of washing on the back who never seem to be able to navigate in a straight line, dhoties flapping in the breeze.
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Blimey!!! dont any of you lot drive on the M25 in rush hour..now THATS anarchy! :)
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OK OK Pavlovian response coming up Cardew. I have driven in India and certainly that description fits. What always got me in India was those one track country roads and the chicken you played with oncoming trucks to see who would put two wheels in the dirt first. Not to mention the damn cyclists with mountains of washing on the back who never seem to be able to navigate in a straight line, dhoties flapping in the breeze.
The question asked was:
"What other driving styles have BRs experienced abroad?"
That post was not up to your normal standard Growler. Try again!!
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>>>>> That post was not up to your normal standard Growler. Try again!!
Hmph! And there I was thinking I shouldn't hi-jack the thread like the courteous gentleman I occasionally am.
But we aim to please, so here are a few gems from The Land Of Sun & Fun.
I suspect we are slightly more advanced in the Philippines, but not much. No cows anyway, but we have a lot of shiny new cars all bought on credit and being shown off. One finds it so much more convenient to purchase a driver's licence than go through the tedium of qualifying for one, d'ye see.
If the right lane traffic is at a standstill, no worries, drive down the left one. That eventually ends in a Mexican standstill so that oncoming traffic cannot move. If there is an enforcer on duty (highly unlikely if it is a hot day, pay-day or lunch-time) he/she may help sort it out. Some minutes/hours later it clears itself when one individual decides to chicken out and give way. Pathetic feller. My daughter's school bus once took 13 hours for a 16km journey in those circumstances. Only 3 people on a motorbike? I've seen 5, plus a baby mounted on the handlebars.
Where did all those huge Dodge 6WD US trucks go after Douglas McArthur kicked the Japs out of the Philippines in 1940-whatever it was? The truth can now be revealed. To our sugar plantations of course, where they are seen wheezing along the road at 8 mph with mountains of sugar cane aboard and about 40 people on them using the opportunity to get a cheap lift.
Parking a problem? No worries, use the pavement. Hoot at any irritating pedestrians who want to usurp your pavement space as you pull on to it. Or double park, or triple park, or quadruple park. Just watch out for those guys with the fake tow trucks or you may not see your ride again, ever. It'll be a load of spare parts being sold in Chinatown at fire-sale prices within 24 hours.
Traffic lights are for reference only and shall be ignored unless there's a cop around. Provided he doesn't have a motorbike, in which case they can still be safely ignored. Sometimes all three are alight at once: red, yellow and green. Well it's a democracy. Everyone should get a fair shake, right?
Not unusual to see 3 policemen on a Chinese 125c bike, no helmets. They then stop me and book me for not wearing one. I say why aren't you guys wearing them? They reply that would interfere with our line of sight in case we have to shoot. Shoot what? Well, criminals, "holduppers" and miscreants sir, now give me your licence please. Luckily I've got about 8 local licences (that lady supervisor in the Land Transportation Office is very obliging since I got her daughter a nurse's job in UK).
Lights? SOP is not to have any if you're a bus. Adds to your road presence, you see. Increases the surprise factor and thus the psychological advantage . Jeepney drivers often don't have batteries so they use their mates' vehicles to start themselves then ride around without lights. Indicators are only used by pussies -- to let the other guy know what you're doing gives the game away. Sort of automotive poker game.
If you are a congressman, a congressman's son or daughter, or a congressman's son's son or son's daughter or one of his mistresses or one of his progeny by them or can somehow remotely trace your lineage to any of the above, you are completely exempt from any kind of traffic law whatsoever. Just climb aboard your Nissan Patrol, switch on the siren and go for it. Make sure your bodyguards are right behind in the other Nissan Patrol to bully any other annoying drivers out of your way.
Chinese scooters are cheap, so we have shoals of 12 and 13 year old little girls riding around on them. Don't knock one off, or else. You'll get stuck with a pedophile charge or something and that carries the death penalty. However if you do knock another pedestrian down, make sure you finish them off. Funeral expenses are cheaper than supporting the whole family for the next 65 years. Bus drivers are actually taught this. Watch out also for beggars who may throw their kid in front of you to claim money. Not nice but it's reality.
Beware of long distance trucks and buses. Their drivers take speed (crystal meth) to keep 'em awake. Bus drivers get paid on the number of passengers they collect, so they race each other. Since most of the rattle traps they drive already covered about a million miles running round Beijing or Taipei or somewhere, they are best given a wide berth. Rear engine doors usually flap open in the wind and a trail of oil follows their erratic progress.
The Land Transportation Office issues on its website a list of traffic violations. Few phrasings could be more indicative of Filipino culture than the offence of "failing to beat the red light". Then there is "crossing the line" (huh?) and "swerving". The latter is a catch-all for anything. Beware the 14th and the 28th of the month. These are the days before payday and the traffic cops (fondly known as "the crocodiles") will be out in force looking for beer money for the karaoke houses. As a "porriner" I am fair game. However I do speak some German so once ot twice I just sat there and asked questions auf Deutsch and demand they bring me an interpreter. This can work quite well, as by wasting their time thus they are losing other revenue-raising opportunities.
If you do get caught you have to go to reclaim your licence and attend the "re-orientation seminar". No one I know has ever done this so it's a matter of negotiating with the cop. On a Harley you will seldom get stopped because it's presumed you are rich and important. Otherwise it's P500 or if GRowlette is with me it's P100. Racial discrimination is alive and well with the traffic police.
If you argue you can actually get a ticket for being "arogant" (sic).
A pal of mine recommended this: Call up one of your Filipino friends on your cellphone. This friend then poses as a senior person in the Ministry of Justice, demands the apprehending officer's name rank and number and then says he will consider reporting him as a "kotong" (crooked cop). Waving a Kodak disposable camera at the same time helps, he says.
Oddly enough, driving is quite amicable. Everyone knows the "system" anyway. You hit me up the back it's your fault. I hit you up the back it's my fault. I'm in a hurry to get to a wedding/funeral/baptism/golf tournament/my wife's gone into labour with our 9th child/appointment with my mistress so I've got my hazards on which means you have to give way to me. Ambulance with its lights and siren on wants to pass? No way he gets past me, he's just doing that to get home for lunch. I pull out of a side turning you have to give way to me whatever. I have a very important text message to send, how do I have time to look out for you? I can park where I like because that's the place I want to go to and walking 30 metres to the cash machine isn't an option. I'm driving a vehicle with government plates on so I can do what I like and you're only a porriner so I'll make a big problem for you if you give me a hard time. (Very few of us would enjoy the hospitality of the Bicutan Immigration Jail - Belmarsh must be a veritable Butlins by comparison).
It's a hot day so I will park my Landcruiser under the trees in a non-parking space with the engine on and air-con running while I go and have a 3 hour boozy lunch with my golfing mates and one of my mistresses. Did I block you in in the car park? Oh sorry you had to wait so long, it's hot and I couldn't find a parking space near the mall entrance.
Oh I could go on but I post too much anyway.
Well the weather is warm, the beer is cold, and the women are beautiful......
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Milan.
Anything on two legs is fair game.
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On the road from Accra to the FiLs mining camp in Ghana.....
Well I use the term "road" in its loosest form, there is a 200yard stretch of road that shares a bridge with a railway! I kid you not, you actually drive over the tracks in your Toyota Land Cruiser or even your old Datson 180 if that's all you can afford
Organised gansgters conduct traffic across it during peak travel times and fleece motorists for a few quid in the process. I suppose it reduces the risk to a certain extent. It's a question of if you're on the road at the same time as the train - tough! I have rarely been so afraid.
The ghanaians are a truely wonderful bunch but driving is all about survival on the roads. They're not that bad because they have to contend with the road conditions, many of which would put off roading centres to shame! Not only that, it takes some skill to get mundane outdated rear wheel drive cars across them. Imagine if you will trying to tackle advanced off roading through floods and extremely adverse terrain that should be left to a landrover defender or discovery in a cortina. There - you now see what I saw!
Hugo
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Just remembered something else. Business used to take me to Sri Lanka (beautiful island and lovely people) quite a lot and I had a driver called Thomas who used to rent me his Peugeot 404 so I theoretically had him and his car on call. Trouble was by 11 a.m. every day he was totally ripped on the local palm toddy and I ended up driving myself......
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