Wife took car into main dealers for scheduled servicing on the Wednesday. On the previous Sunday I went around checking the car, marking the oil filter etc, checking wiper blades front and rear which were all in perfect condition.
Wife phones me and says garage say the rear blade (a favourite in my experience)is knackered and so is the alternator belt (on a 2 yr old 25k car!)do we want them changed (at our cost, despite the car still being under warranty). Tell them no says I.
I get back home and inspect the rear wiper blade and sure enough it is ripped to a length of approx one inch from the end. Is it possible to have this much damage to the wiper blade in only 2 days without there being any ice to 'glue' it to the screen and more importantly without it being used in that time?
You may think this is small-minded but IF they are vandalising my car and then asking me to pay for the privilige, what are they doing to things which are not easily noticeable? E.g did they really put Mobil 1 fully synthetic in the car as instructed or just the cheaper non-synthetic oil? Did THEY damage the alternator belt? I'll be interested to see how long it does last despite their 'recommendation' to change it. besides doesn't the warranty cover these things?
What would you do?
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It sounds a bit fishy to me. If you can pull the rest of the rubber with ease then it's on its way out. If you have to tug at it and stretch it to make it split, then it's been vandalised IMHO.
I had the misfortune of having to replace the rear wiper blade on my Escort in October when it split. I jokingly suggested going back and complaining to Ford's with it, as it (genuine Motorcraft) had only lasted the past 15 years!
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checking wiper blades front and rear which were all in perfect condition. I get back home and inspect the rear wiper blade and sure enough it is ripped to a length of approx one inch from the end. Is it possible to have this much damage to the wiper blade in only 2 days
Normally you'll see cracks in the rubber before it starts tearing. Difficult one to prove though. Your word against the garage.
alternator belt - doesn't the warranty cover these things?
No, it's classed as a serviceable item.
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This sort of needless replacement is common. Even my idependent garadge automaticly charges for £4.00 of screenwash that is never used. I keep the screenwash toped up myself on a fortnightly basis.
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no your not paranoid....im in the motor trade and see this awfull kind of thing going on all the time
our service advisors are pushed into selling things on top of what you ask for
like a air con charge, wipers, discs and pads are common....tell most non car people that theyre brakes need doing and they straight away go for it on the grounds of saftey
they had to rip your rear wiper didnt they...you couldnt have collected the car with a dervicable rear wiper after theyd told you it was worn out
as for the mobil 1...you probably got whatever they keep there in huge tanks and use on eveything, if mobil1 was ordered in the mech prob nicked it :(
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Even the little things...... Back in the days when I was in the trade, the battery topup bottles on the forecourt had the same water in as the radiator topup cans.
At least it was free.
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our service advisors are pushed into selling things on top of what you ask for
I took the works van in for a service the other day. Upon picking it up, the guy on the desk said that he'd tried persuading the lease company to have the front pads changed, but they weren't having any of it. I asked him if they were worn as I wasn't accepting back a vehicle in a dangerous state, and he said no - still had 70% of the material left. I then asked him why he thought that they ought to be changed then. His answer was that he always advises customers to have them changed at service time because of extended service intervals these days. Considering the van is 7 yrs old, with only 15,000 miles on the clock, it's not as if the brakes are going to use up the 70% of material that is left within the next year.
Needless to say when I got back to work I phoned the dealers head office and put them in the picture. It wasn't for the sake of the garage ripping off the lease company - (they do a good job doing that to us anyway, so that didn't bother me), it was for the sake of joe public who have to pay for the servicing out of their own pocket that could easily be getting ripped off.
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Sadly Dave, I had the opposite happen to me. Mobile service guy asked lease company for authorisation to replace pads, lease company asked if they were legal, yes said mech, don't change them said lease. Two weeks later, loud squealing heading up the M1. Tipytoed home. Pads, disks, hubs, calipers to replace said main dealer. Major snotty letter from me and my employer to lease company (a big league outfit) - no reply.
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Two years running I took the wife's car to a local guy who does MOT's, recomended by the inlaws, salt-of-the-earth type, passed fine each time, I was sure it would, I had checked it over. The third year she took it along herself to the same garage, I had checked it just as throughly, passed though only after a wiper was replaced at a completely unnecessary £4.99, not worth arguing over, this year I will take it in.
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I really find it incredulous the way that we motorists are treated, we are continually shafted from every corner. If its not the majority of garages , and I use that term advisedly, it is successive governments who use the 'green' excuse.
I suppose the only thing open to me is to report them to Trading standards and hopefully they will pose as joe public with a marked up car to catch them out.
I mean in the last two years I have bought TWO brand new cars off them, you would have thought that they would want to look after me not least to get my custom again? These are the same guys who quoted me £96 for pads on a Picasso when a Citroen garage in the next town quoted me £56!
Obviously there are people around who are happy to pay these prices otherwise they wouldn't get away with charging them. If most of us are happy to be taken for a ride, they assume we all are!
Well as far as I'm concerned, they will not be getting a penny of my money ever again, let alone x amount of thousands when I come to replacing my two cars, and I hope they go bankrupt. 'Support your local businesses' like hell, why should I give a damn, they will become masters of their own downfall.
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Although sharp practices such as this do occur, and when my cars are out of warranty I service them myself so I know the work is done properly, I have to say our local Honda dealer seems very honest.
When we take the Jazz in they produce a report saying tyres x% worn, disc pads x% worn etc. so you know exactly where you are. They don't just make these figures up either.
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Tell me, is it usual for a (Nissan) garage to charge an extra £10 to dispose of the engine oil when doing a service?
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Words fail me.....
Time to go to National instead for its £15 or £20 oil and filter change depending on oil specs - and that's the inclusive price.
On the point of services, there are several respected outfits that advertise gold or silver levels of car servicing in my town at approximately £80 and £50 respectively.
All seem to cover an oil and filter change, perhaps a new air filter and bits and bobs depending on the price - the rest is all listed as Check, Advise, Condition of etc.
Strikes me as very expensive for very little return or actual work and far removed from most manufacturers' recommended servicing, replacing and checks according to the mileage listed in the manuals.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Words fail me..... Time to go to National instead for its £15 or £20 oil and filter change depending on oil specs - and that's the inclusive price.
I agree it's now not worth you doing your own Oil & Filter change with prices as low as these - however I found that by phoning around these companies that there was great variance between the oils they used and the make of filter. National I know use Wix filters which IMHO aren't as good as some others out there - like Coopers which KwikFit use - although National do use Duckhams oils whereas K/F use Mobil 1. I personally tend to use K/F in lieu of National - simply because of my personal preference for the 'better' filter since one without the other is no good.
I am paranoid git so I will stand and watch the Tech. to ensure he uses the right oil and as stated filter in my car. I'm not so sure about national since I've heard stories about them (like Formula 1) who use a high pressure sucker to suck out the oil from the dip-stick tube and NOT via the sump.
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I've heard stories about them (like Formula 1) who use a high pressure sucker to suck out the oil from the dip-stick tube and NOT via the sump.
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This has been discussed before and it not a bad thing to suck out the oil. IIRC some vehicles no longer have a sump plug.
Marine engines survive in spite of the oil being sucked out.
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I don,t think you are paranoid. I just cannot bring myself to pay £80 an hour for labour at main dealers . ATS do a good oil and filter job and will check the brakes for free. They checked mine recently and I was pleasantly surprised to be told they were fine. My father in law has a thing about rotating the wheels and was merrily charged by a main Rover dealer for the job during a service. The garage was embarrassed when they were told that the wheels had been numbered and had not moved from their original position.! The scene seems to be one of endless rip off for the mototrist from taxes to maintainance. I've had several makes of car from Fiat to Mercedes and the main dealers were mostly untrustworthy. Guarantees never seemed to include the bits that go wrong...funny that.
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I've had several makes of car from Fiat to Mercedes and the main dealers were mostly untrustworthy.
Here! Here! I find msyelf agreeing with you on that last comment because whether I've had a VW / Audi / Vauxhall / Fiat I've found various level of incompetancy fropm the Service departments - sometimes quite shockingly so. It's a shame really but behind all the 'corporate facade' are YTS teenagers / inexperienced engineers tasked with doing jobs that really should be dine under the supervision of trained mechanics or done by the mechanics themselves.
Shame really.
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There's no excuse for charging you for oil disposal when you can do it yourself for free at your local tip.
You're not paranoid, motorists are ripped off constantly. I've been the vicitim of several, but when you realise a little while afterwards then there isn't much you can do. You invariably can't prove anything.
Last time was when a garage conned me into a new battery at MOT time. Said it was bubbling over with acid - failure sheet said 'refusal to test due to battery boiling over' after the first few checks. Didn't think to ask them why they had the bonnet open or the engine running at that stage.
Hence my much-shouted-about desire to find a place that does MOT tests and MOT tests ONLY.
My current method is to speak to whoever's in charge when I drop the car off for the MOT. Explain that I've performed the test checks to the best of my ability myself the previous day, and that I know that it doesn't need brake pads, wiper blades or similar.
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>>My current method is to speak to whoever's in charge when I drop the car off for the MOT. Explain that I've performed the test checks to the best of my ability myself the previous day, and that I know that it doesn't need brake pads, wiper blades or similar.
You can explain all you like.Mot tester does the job not you.If you have a problem you are entitled to.Question any reason for failure.Ask for retest.quiry as to why it failed. you also dont have to have any failure work done by garage that failed car.Dont see the problem.
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Steve
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>>My current method is to speak to whoever's in charge when I drop the car off for the MOT. Explain that I've performed the test checks to the best of my ability myself the previous day, and that I know that it doesn't need brake pads, wiper blades or similar.
and why not tell the tester his wife is ugly whilst your at it?
Trying to tell someone how to do their job is a surefire way to get someones back up and in the case of an MOT tester it will probably make them scrutenise the vehicle even more and possibly if something is borderline fall on the fail side rather than a pass.
I'm not a chef and so don't tell the people in the restaurant how to cook my steak so why should you tell the MOT tester how to do his job unless you are qualified and have all the necessary equipment to perform all the checks?
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Very valid point - hadn't thought about that aspect. Good job I haven't done it that way yet!
Maybe I'll just take up my right to watch the test!
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Subtle hints before the test that you know how a car works may be more beneficial rather than "I know what I'm doing and there's nothing wrong with it". My local garage can arrange 'while you wait' MOT's and I always do (two bikes and a car each year), show interest, ask if you can hape a peep underneath when its up on the ramp. Let them make their money off someone else. Find a good garage or MOT-only place and stick with them - they appreciate good customers.
Martin
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Pedantic mode on....
Mr Haddock, most people tell the staff how to cook their steak. In fact, it'd be terrible work on the part of the table staff if they didn't ask you...
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Hence my much-shouted-about desire to find a place that does MOT tests and MOT tests ONLY.
Used to get my car's MOT done at the the local authority depot who were approved to do MOTs and were happy to do them for the general public (they had to do all the local taxis anyway). As they obviously did not do any repair work, if it failed, it had genuinely failed.
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The last time I had a service at a garage they charged me for new plugs which I had only just replaced a few months earlier. Plus the broken hub cap. All in all seemed a bit expensive at £120 to do an MoT and change the oil and air filter. Labour's cheaper at home.
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I have changed the oil and filter on every car I have owned until now.
On the Passat I could not find the filter, and it looked a bit awkward in the engine bay, so I sent it to my local garage.
I was determined to change the oil and filter on the Focus, and after having got Motorcraft filter and Magnatec 5W-30 I had a go. Jack car up, put blocks under car, take out 5 screws on undertray, still could not get undertray off, it started raining, I got cross, it still would not come off, put screws back in, go to local garage, grovel a bit and they do it for some cash.
I have now given up doing my oil changes, which I used to enjoy, because it is so complicated now. The mechanic had a job to get the undertray off, there were some more screws. It was even more difficult to put the dashed thing back on. I don't think that they want us to diy.
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>>I used to enjoy, because it is so complicated now. I don't think that they want us to diy.
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You're right 'they' don't. Many cars now feature special locking bolts and nut heads that require 'specialist' tools or deliberately place the oil filter etc. in awkward positions so that you have to remove this plate or that plate to get to where you want to be. It is infuriating, but there we go.
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You're right 'they' don't. Many cars now feature special locking bolts and nut heads that require 'specialist' tools or deliberately place the oil filter etc. in awkward positions so that you have to remove this plate or that plate to get to where you want to be. It is infuriating, but there we go.
Most of these things are for exactly no reason. On the HCS version of the OHV Ford engine, they suddenly decide to use torx headed big end bolts instead of hexagonal ones. No other component of the engine has this. Very strange. Just means that you've got to go and and buy torx socket sets you've never needed and probably won't use again!
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Verystrange. Just means that you've got to go and and buy torx socket sets you've never needed and probably won't use again!
But that's the idea as previous post, they don't want you to diy, they want you to take to dealer. these things are done quite delibritally.
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Torx heads are often used.Not just in automotive use but electronics as well/Mobile phones/cd players.I could go on but you get my drift.So motors are not the only ones.They are not expensive to buy either..
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Steve
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Buying even good tools is not expensive when cf with garage hourly rates, so if you are committed to doing your own servicing buying things like Torx, etc should not put anyone serious about it off.
Similarly the like of an exhaust gas analyser is an investment with a good payback (if you running older cars), and as you get older a pit is a worthwhile addition to your garage. It definitely allows you to jobs that would not be possible otherwise. As the back gets worse I only wish the garage was hig enough to replace the pit with a lift!
Simarly manuals on CD or even Haynes answer many of the questions that get raised on here. Whilst everybody has to learn somehow, the lack of basic understanding of some people, who ask 'how do I...?,is worrying in that they are undertaking tasks with a safety element involved. I am sure that this aspect and possible liability issues has possibly driven away some of the professional contributors who used to contribute on a regular basis.
Maybe every body should post a 'protection statement' in their signature when supplying advice. PU to provide????
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pmh (was peter)
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Torx heads are often used... They are not expensive to buy either..
That's what I mean. Why go to the trouble of using a 'new fangled' bolt head when hex will do, plus torx sockets are inexpensive. It just doesn't make sense.
If they wanted to put people off DIY Ford could probably invent a bolt head of their own, patent it, and charge £100 per socket. Just changing a bolt head for the sake of it is nonsensical. Especially when the rest of the engine (and car) uses hex.
Now engine covers, there a different kettle of fish. I don't see the point in them when manufacturers got away with not using them for so many year. OK, it could be argued that all the electronics and sensors in engine bays need to be kept watertight. But that's what the waterproof connectors are for, and I'm sure aerodynamics would only be slightly affected if they weren't there.
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I think that Torx headed fasteners were introduced to improve the reliability of automatic assembly equipment, ie. robots. It wasn't a conspiracy to frustrate DIY'ers.
Kevin...
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The air filter box bolts are torx-headed too.
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I like Torx screws as they seem more resistant to getting rounded off, particularly compared to cross-head or Philips screws which always end up rusted and rounded!
My brake calipers (Bendix I think) are held together with 5-sided headed (pentagonal) bolts; now that's not an everyday tool.
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The petagonal bolts are the ones I thought of earlier in the thread. You can get the tools for these from Draper Tools Ltd, who seem to cover quite a few of the oddities.
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Got my Yaris serviced today (at a Toyota main dealer). As I was handing over the keys I heard an old geezer being told that all three wiper blades were split and did he want them replaced. He agreed. Dread to think what they charged him.
Anyway, sure enough they tried it with me too. Said my blades weren't split, but weren't "clearing the screen properly". I declined their kind offer to replace them. Fair enough the rear one is a bit ropey, but the front two are good as new.
Seems like this is the scam of choice at the moment.
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Off the top of my head price for 3 blades for a Yaris is about a tenner.
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Anyway, sure enough they tried it with me too. Said my blades weren't split, but weren't "clearing the screen properly". I declined their kind offer to replace them. Fair enough the rear one is a bit ropey, but the front two are good as new.
Obviosuly I haven't seen your wuipers, but I'd be tempted to have some sympathy with the garage here.
My father used to replace his wiper blades only when they fell off, with the result that most of the time they were pretty useless -- not good news.
Wiper blades are cheap, and I think there is a lot of sense in replacing them before they start to get bad. When that happens probably depends on a lot factors, but an extra annual cost of a tenner to see clearly where you're going seems like a good deal to me.
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I agree with NoWheels.I hate dirty windscreens.especialy when the wipers dont do what they are meant to do.If they dont clear the screen as they were designed to.I always replace. so much easier to see through screen.Less chance of having an accident
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Steve
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Pull the rubbers out of the blades and turn them around. Don't know why, but they work as good as new afterwards. Doubles their life effectively.
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I always put a new blade (+holder) on the driver side as winter approaches, move the drivers side to passenger side, and when possible then use the passenger side on the rear. Maximum visibility at minimum cost. Doesnt work on the BX tho!
Almost as good an improvement as having a new screen!
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pmh (was peter)
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