I am currently looking for a hot hatch in the region of £12000 and have decided on either the Ford Fiesta ST or the Seat Ibiza FR. Can anyone suggest which to go for? Does anyone own either of these cars (user road tests)? Performance and Fuel economy read very similar but im just not sure. Post any thoughts on either of these cars here??? Thanks, Tim
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Don't discount the Clio 182 - all the performance magazines rate it as a better car than than the Fiesta ST which is more warm than hot.
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Seconded.
The Clio 182 is almost universally agreed to be the best small hot hatch.
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One (possibly major) factor to take into account though.
Insurance groups vary wildly for these cars.
Ibiza FR - Group 8
Fiesta ST - Group 15 (i think?)
Clio 182 - Group 16
The Clio is quicker in standard form than the other two, with the Ibiza just pipping the Fiesta. However, chip the Ibiza and it will be very comparable to the Clio.
The insurance is the major deciding factor for me, as i'll be getting one of these when i graduate (...and get a job, save some money, etc etc). I can get insured on the Ibiza for £600pa, or the Clio for £2000pa. It's a no-brainer for me.
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If you've got £14000 to spend on a car who really cares about another grand for insurance? It's less than a 14th of the cost of the car - its like spending an extra 70 quid on insurance for a car worth a grand.
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If you've got £14000 to spend on a car who really cares about another grand for insurance? It's less than a 14th of the cost of the car - its like spending an extra 70 quid on insurance for a car worth a grand.
Not sure that follows. Say he's buying it on finance at about £200 a month, £2000 on insurance a year is almost doubling the monthly cost of the car.
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Well i think you have your figures mixed a little. Both are the same insurance group (13) and will cost around £1400 per year. Other than this what about the drive, look etc. Am considering the Clio but i prefer the look of the other two and want to be a bit different. Can someone briefly tell me what chipping is also? is it legal? Cost? What does it do?
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Sorry nixontim, i was working on the assumption that you were talking about the FR TDi (my personal preference) rather than the petrol variant. The TDi is group 8 insurance, and is just as quick in real-life performance.
"Chipping" usually involves re-mapping the ECU, and if done by a reputable company is perfectly safe for the car. These TDi engines can easily be upped from 130bhp to 160bhp by companies such as Upsolute, for around £400. They also give improved torque, and claims have been made for improved fuel consumption aswell. Your insurance company will likely add a little on, but not more than £50 in my experience. The only other issue is your warranty, but i believe this may be kept intact if you go through an agreed garage for the re-map.
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I test drove the Seat TDI and althought the drive was good i didnt like the noise, sounded like a tank during tick over. When u punch a petrol i much prefer the noise they make rather than the grunt of a TDI.
Nobody have any thought one which i should go for between the Seat FR and the Fiesta ST???
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Nixontim,
If you're convinced you want to chip your car (even though you don't seem to know anything about it) then the SEAT wins because the turbo engine will yield greater gains more easily.
Two companies that specialise in re-mapping this engine are REVO and Jabba. You can find out more about all things SEAT at www.seatcupra.net/forums
Can't comment on the Fiesta because I haven't seen one yet, but from the reviews Ford don't seem to have tried their hardest with it. There is a review of it on this site if you want HJ's thoughts.
Good luck either way.
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I test drove the Seat TDI and althought the drive was good i didnt like the noise, sounded like a tank during tick over. When u punch a petrol i much prefer the noise they make rather than the grunt of a TDI.
The Seat - better looking!
As for chipping, I don't think this is worthwhile with a petrol engine - seems you would end up spending a few hundred notes for a pretty small gain in performance. With the diesels, chipping can bring significant gains in power & torque that make spending the money worthwhile.
If you don't like the sound of the TDI, try driving one of the PSA diesels (which you'll also find in Ford cars as well as Pugs/Citroens), as these are reputed to be much more refined in terms of engine noise.
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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AndyMC,
Disagree with your comment about chipping petrols. Can only comment on the VAG 20VT engine.
Check out www.Revo.co.uk
£499 + VAT gives..
180 BHP to 212BHP
173 lbft to 230 lbft
These are very sizeable gains for relatively small cost. The 225 engine yields even greater gains.
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AndyMC, Disagree with your comment about chipping petrols. Can only comment on the VAG 20VT engine.
The reason for the difference in effectiveness of chips isn't the difference between diesel and petrol, it's the difference between normally aspirated and turbocharged. It just happens that most diesels have turbos and most petrols do not.
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just got a clio 182 inferno metalic in colour.
cannot be put in same league as fiesta or seat, it is miles above in quality, materials, drive-a-bility. etc etc.
have you tried the clio, (i know, i know, its a "girls car")
but have you actually tried one?
i can tell you out of 40 supercars the 182 came 2nd.
only a porsche was top
it is the quickest out of the 3, you are thining of.
best mpg.
take a look here
cars.msn.co.uk/researchcentre/roadtests/rt067/
or maybe, dont go new, get 2nd hand. then you could try all 3 over a year. yes you will lose money, but just remember, you cant take it with you...
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"cannot be put in same league as fiesta or seat, it is miles above in quality, materials, drive-a-bility. etc etc."
-- agree completely that the Clio is the better "driving machine" but think your comments on quality / materials definitely aren't. Build quality realibility wise I'd put them in the following order:
1. Seat
2. Fiesta
3. Clio
Compare the 3 cars in 2/3 years time & I'm sure you'll see what I mean. Problem with most French cars seems to be build quality & reliability - all the "owners" surveys seem to confirm this, as does my own previous ownership of a Saxo & my brothers experiences when he worked for Peugeot.
-- if driving experience was the main priority though I'd certainly go with the clio, only similar car that comes close is probably the Mini Cooper S but they're pretty silly money & getting extremely common now too.
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>take a look here
> cars.msn.co.uk/researchcentre/roadtests/rt067/
>>0-62mph in 7.1 seconds is Porsche-baiting,
In his dreams.
Kevin...
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I live & learn!
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andymc
Vroom, vroom - mmm, doughnuts ...
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Am considering the Clio but i prefer the look of the other two and want to be a bit different.
There is nothing 'different' about selecting a Ford Fiesta or a Seat Ibiza, especially as the former is bound to become a boy racers choice in years to come.
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So which is gonna hold its value in 3 years time?
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Don't think they'll be much to choose between them as their all "niche" motors - if this is your concern then I'd suggest looking at a used Mini cooper / cooper S. Otherwise the only thing for you to do is take them all for a drive - that should sort it for you !!
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There is nothing 'different' about selecting a Ford Fiesta or a Seat Ibiza, especially as the former is bound to become a boy racers choice in years to come.
Although out of the three cars being discussed here, i'm fairly confident that the Seat will have the lowest sales numbers (for each model range, that is). Therefore the Ibiza would be the most 'different' out of the three.
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