Don't think this link has been posted here yet - a campaign regarding ramblers v off roaders. Page is headed
Rights of Way: Stop prejudice and intolerance
www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ican/G446
Discuss...then cast your votes...
I went along with it, more or less solely because I am fed up with interference in people's leisure pursuits.
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Not really convinced the proposer makes his case. There's a real issue there, not just one of the nasty ramblers wanting to spoil other folk's fun.
These ancient lanes were designed as drove roads or at most to take a horse drawn cart. They will recover from use by the farmer's Land Rover or maybe the occasional skilled recreational use. Unfortunately with the growth in 4x4 ownership use is neither occasional nor skilful and historic monuments are being damaged, probably irreparably. Plenty of examples out there, the Ridgeway is the best known, there are many others in the Dales and elsewhere.
Believe DEFRA intend to institute a review which will see many downgraded to Bridleways. If a few can be kept open, with the consent of Landowners and perhaps with payment by the users fine. The status quo is not an option.
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Oh what rubbish...
>>The damage Ramblers may cause is ok but the damage others cause is not
Becasue the sudden acceleration, hard braking or skidding of an aggressive rambler with thick tread on his walking boots can tear up the countryside like a 4x4 can ? Oh please.
common since the horse and cart and has had little or no adverse affect on diversity of flora and fauna.
I don't think your average horse and car accelerates, turns or brakes quite like a 4x4 either.
Absolute rubbish. They are tearing up the countryside for little reason other than behaving like fools. This kind of behaviour is ridiculous and intolerant.
Ban 4x4s and bikes from green lanes. As somone said, occasional and skilful use is not a problem, the people I see when walking the dogs are most certainly neither. And before you ask, yes I have done it, although nto much in this country. And I stopped partly because of the damage it was doing.
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I am a keen walker (member of Ramblers) and I occasionally used to go green laning in my old Land Rover (recently sold). I also like to use my mountain bike on bridleways, which is perfectly lawful.
So I straddle the fence on this issue. Green Laning used to be a hobby for a small bunch of enthusiasts in old land Rovers. Now, with the growth of 4x4 ownership, green lane use has probably grown too. Many users are probably drivers out to find out or show off what their newly acquired 4x4 can do.
I've seen lanes wrecked by 4x4's (which, incidentally, make them impassable to other 4x4 users as well as anyone else. But I've also seen bridleways ruined by horses.
The thing with off-roading is that, surprise, your 4x4 actually does what it says on the box. Once you've discovered that your Shogun will get you up and down muddy slopes one takes it for granted there seems less purpose in green laning!
Playing Devil's advcate for a second, why, when we have thousands of miles of smooth, surfaced roads, would people want to go and find rutted tracks to bump along slowly, risking getting stuck? It's a bit like seeking out the biggest tailbacks on the motorway so you can see how long you can be delayed for!!
My position now is neutral as I see both sides of the argument. I think each green lane needs to be considered individually.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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Currently a hot issue in this locality. Local parish council has approached the Police for help in reducing the impact of reckless wrecking of lanes and footpaths in this area. Police are showing an interest and despatched their heli to take some pictures last weekend. Their enviromental and wildlife Officer is involved. I agree with the intervention. I own a 4x4 which is used off-road (with the landowner's consent) for a purpose beyond just doing it. In the the last few months the frequency of encountering other vehilces churning up the woodland which I know are being used there without consent have increased dramatically. The drivers give the impression that makes it difficult to tackle them.......A recent development is the appearance of several Merc G Wagens mindlessly racing in circles destroying the landscape in the process - where will it end ?
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Not helped, may I say, by TV hacks giving respectability to the practice.
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ive done a fair bit of off road driving in remote parts of greece and new zealand, not really done any here
we are a bit short on space in lots of the uk for this, although ive no problem if people rent the land or own it, as far as i can see it should be set up on special sites like a track day
you wouldnt go tearing round at 140 on the roads but it can be fun on a track day, same with off road stuff, unless u actually live in a remote part of scotland i would expect to pay for the privillege of chewing up some land
although i fully support peoples freedom to buy and run 4 x 4's if they want, its there money, the PC brigade can go forth and multiply as far as im concerned, and they are useful in snow etc
love life and peace
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the PC brigade can go forth and multiply as far as im concerned, and they are useful in snow
What do you do, stuff them under the wheels for added traction ? Surely you can only use them once ? and where do you carry them ?
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genuinely funny, im impressed, chalk it up
sad all my best stuff gets moderated out but hey
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They are tearing up the countryside for little reason other than behaving like fools. This kind of behaviour is ridiculous and intolerant.
The sad thing is that there are some legitimate uses for 4X4s on green lanes, by farmers. It didn't need to be regulated until the lanes started to be abused by folks who just want to tear them up for fun, and I fear that we'll have the inevitable result of the fools having messed things up for those who did access to need the lanes.
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If anyone thinks a ban will solve anything, then they are surely mistaken. The people that behave irresponsibly, carelessly and dangerously, and with no consideration to other users or the byway itself, certainly won't respect a ban. If it worked like that there would be no gun crime, in fact no crime at all, and we certainly wouldn't need speed cameras on the roads.
The rules that apply to tarmac roads also apply to byways, but there simply is no policing by the authorities. The local authorities can impose traffic regulation orders to prevent damage, but these simply get ignored. So if these don't get policed and get ignored, why would a ban be any different?
The ramblers already report many off-roaders to the police, but nothing happens, a bit like when you report anything else to them. In many cases the cars aren't registered to anyone of fixed abode.
So there you go, another piece of useless legislation that provides a great soundbite, but very little else. Except of course, to prevent decent law abiding drivers from a pleasureable activity that when done properly doesn't cause anyone or anything any real harm.
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An all out ban would be senseless. Probably designed and imposed by people who have no clue about rural life. Enough current legistlation to control.
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I'd agree that a ban as such will solve nothing. The issue, perhaps mirroring Dave N's point, is that the normal rules apply. BOATS/RUPP's are old roadways that missed out on tarmac for a variety of reasons. They are still theoretically open to all traffic. Re-classification will allow them to be physically closed off to motor vehicles, or at least heavy 4x4's trail bikes are more problematic, in the same way as other footpaths and bridleways
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Blimey - I thought for a moment you were on about the off-road capabilities of the 1960's Nash Rambler. I owned one in Australia and it did quite well on those red dirt roads. No worries about whether you could or couldn't, you just did it.
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