Just been listening to a piece on the radio about car crime (which has apparently fallen by 30%) in the last 10 years IIRC.
Anyway one of the experts was claiming that laminated glass is a highly effective (if more expensive by about 4 times) security measure which could/should be adopted more widely.
I don't doubt this - we specified laminated security glass for a number of the windows in our house. However, the surveyor made the point that it should NEVER be used in a situation which could hamper escape in the event of an emergency.
How are the 2 arguments reconciled then? Thinking about it, I don't fancy being stuck in a car which has, say, overturned and in which the doors can't be opened, struggling to smash my way through laminated glass or watching would be rescuers doing likewise. In cases like this ordinary toughened glass would probably break on impact and at least afford some chance of escape for anyone able and/or small enough to do so without too much effort. Even if they don't break on impact, it's not that difficult to do unlike the case with laminated glass.
Obviously, anyone who's been the victim of carjackers might well be delighted to have laminate all round.
So what's it to be - safety or security?
Perhaps our glass experts could advise.
|
Perhaps our glass experts could advise.
Oh go on then.
In my eyes laminated glass in the sides of cars would be the best way to go with regard to security.
Espada was luky that his subaru side glass was not broken during the attempted hi-jack, this was because the scroats were a bit thick and could easily have smashed the glass with no effort at all ( I shan't give details here of how to ).
Laminated glass will stop the oportuninst criminal from getting into your car and nicking the sterio, change from the ashtray etc. as this is the vast majority of car crime.
Laminated glass does break more easily that toughened, BUT it DOES stay intact.
As for beitng trapped in a car.
Modern cars are much better at stating the right shape in a accident, if anyone remembers the Fifth Gear program where two Espace's were crashed head on, the new one didn't even set off the air bags as the crash wasn't severe enough. The doors could be opened as if nothing ghad happened. So if you are unfortunate to be involved in a accident, then with all the sensors in the car activating pre-tensioners setting air-bags etc then the doors would be unlocked automaticly at the same time.
If your trapped in a modern car nowadays its not because the doors are locked or jammed, it is because the accident is extremly severe, and getting out of the car is not somthing on the options list until emergency serices are there anyway.
The emergency services who cut open cars to extract ocupants have the jaws of life that can open anything wether the glass is laminated or not.
Have a look at the work Thatcham security are doing, they are of a similar opinion that laminated glass will increase security. www.thatcham.org
|
Whilst channel hopping last night there was one of the usual American police/rescue/chase progams on. Seems there are around 3500 incidents a year where cars go into rivers/floods etc. They said don't even bother trying to get through the windscreen, try to break driver or passenger window as toughened glass is both safer and easier to break underwater. Electric door locks usually don't work when immersed.
Ok, probably doesn't happen here so much, but.....
|
|
|
|
Its getting bad when you dont even feel safe in your car without locking the doors(never locked mine but will from now on).
|
|
|
There was a thread about this some time ago, and I remember one answer was to not have laminted glass on the grounds that any determined theif is likely to cause lots of damage to the door and its frame if they fail to get through the window. I'd sooner have to ask Orange for a new mobile than spend lots more on new doors/frame/respray.
As regards falling into rivers, I really can't see what is useful in a car for breaking windows. Do yourselves a favour and buy a glass-smashing hammer with a sharp point on it from Halfords, or do your arm muscles some good and invest in a manual door winder retro-conversion.
|
Living in South Florida with its multitude of canals and a small number of them protected by barriers (very little protection on motorways) cars often wound up in them. Unfortunately, unless someone saw the incident and made an attempt at rescue, the car occupants often died. I can't recall one incident where the occupant made an escape unaided. Whether that was due to an inability to open doors, or smash glass or just plain old panicing, I couldn't say. One driver even made a mobile phone call to the emergency services, and was on the line with them for a good number of minutes, but was unable to tell them the location so subsequently drowned before help could arrive.
Lots of the safety organizations used to recommend and in some cases even distribute for free, safety tools (combination glass hammer/seltbelt cutter), but how many of us could be sure that we would have the mental capacity (not to mention physical if we were hurt in the initial impact) to remember where the tool was located, get to it and use it effectively when upside down in a dark, murky canal?. If the tool was placed handily under a seat, would it still be there after a crash and a few rollovers?.
I wish I could say how many of those rescued were freed by breaking windows, or by just opening the door. That would go a long way to helping to answer the original question.
|
|
In the 1980's my Father did some tests of these hammers with seatbelt cutters at work, they were rubbish, the glass breaker wasn't too bad, but very hard to break the glass from the seated position, but the seatbelt cutters were useless on a seatbelt you are wearing, and I expect in the post-accident kerfuffle would be even harder to use.
|
A few years ago I had to pull a woman and child from a car one New Years Day morning on the A34.
A readily available seatbelt cutter in her car (after the window was broken), or a window breaker and seatbelt cutter in mine would have made a considerable difference.
However, given the angle of her position (the car was on its roof and leaning on one side) I can't see that they would have been of any use to her - even if she could have reached them, she would have had no leverage to use them.
|
|
|
|
invest in a manual door winder retro-conversion.
Apologies for my ignorance, but what is a manual door winder retro-conversion - and how does one go about getting one?
|
|
I think they meant manual window-winder.
|
I think they meant manual window-winder.
Aye, they did! :-)
|
OK - that much is now clear to my ignorant mind. Is this conversion often done? I must confess that I've never heard of it being offered.
And how does one go about getting it done? Or was the original post just TIC?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Clearly there are pros and cons here but on balance I don't think I'm going to be in the market for laminated glass in my car.
|
Clearly there are pros and cons here but on balance I don't think I'm going to be in the market for laminated glass in my car.
It will be top of the options list on my next car (if it's on the option list that is).
(Glass-Tech)
|
If it isn't on the options list there are aftermarket options.
While at the auto show in the US, I saw a booth advertising window security film. Applied like regular tint, but it was much stronger. It was also available in various tinted shades so it would serve a dual purpose. The demo video they had, showed various attacks on windows equipped with the film and while the glass did shatter, the film held. Of course it isn't impervious as once the glass had shattered, I am sure a knife stuck into it would pierce/cut the film. The point being made was that the security film bought you enough time to drive away and escape. Even proper bullet-"proof" glass can only hinder an attack, repeated shots fired into it would eventually get through.
The company was from the UK and the booth attendant was British (going by accent), but I don't remember the name of the outfit.
|
|
I quite like the idea of this Supaglass, anyone already know the cost roughly? I would imagine they would have to take door glass out of the door to get behind the seals all the way round?
|
The glass doesn't have to be removed to fit window tint (normally) and the sales pitch I heard said it was applied as you would with window tint. I have watched window tint installers and they basically just pull back the window seal and "tuck" the tint under it.
Don't know if my explanation helps any.
|
|
|
|
