Sitting in a jam on a french motorway, as many cars passed quicker than me (typical) I wondered why the french manufacturers have not entered the 4x4 market. OK, in the 80's you could get a 4x4 405 and BX; and Renault did the Scenic RX4 but they've never done a big 4x4.
Given Citroen's experience of hydaulic suspension you would think they would be well placed to enter this market. And as Renault and Nissan are joined (or taken over?), Renault could re-badge a Nissan 4x4 as a quick solution. If a Renault Trafic can be a Nissan Primastar, why can't a Nissan Terrano be a Renault?
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[Deliberate RF wind up mode on]
Perhaps they're worried too many bits would fall off on anything other than tarmac!
....... Ducks and takes cover :)
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Given the Horlicks that Createur du Automobiles made of the Scenic 4x4 I tend to agree with you.
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what do the french army use as land rover equivalents?
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Rebadged Mercedes G-Wagen with Peugeot badges and engine (can't be seen to buy anything other than French).
www.4wdonline.com/Peugeot/P4.html
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Their Bomb Disposal people use double cabbed Landies. Saw a few of them a coouple of Summers ago around the old WW1 battlefields.
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I wonder if the question should really be "Why, except for special use, farmers, military etc. does anyone make them?"
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This comment could be applied to almost any car couldn't it? And the answer is because there is a market.
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...Or to put it another way (sorry to have a discussion with myself), why does no-one make a practical car with long life design, minimal use of scarce resources, no more power than is necessary, good safety, economy and no unnecessary features to break down? Answer, because there is *no* market.
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/Anorak mode on
According to "Citroen XM" by Martinez and Sauzay a 4x4 Citroen XM was envisaged at design stage. "A long wheelbase version is not foreseen but estate and 4x4 versions could be developed."
/Anorak mode off
I enjoyed my BX 4x4 when I had it. Swift, comfortable, go anywhere ability with adjustable ground clearance in a 1989 car. What more would you want?
/ more shoulder shrugging
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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According to the most up to date info I could find on the net, Renault owns 44.4% of Nissan, while Nissan owns 15% of Renault. Not quite sure how that works but the result is called Renault-Nissan Alliance. Nissan makes a range of 4x4s which the French can regard as French with more justification than we can call the CityRover British!
Apparently the French are very keen on MPVs. While other nations have come up with 'soft-roaders' that go are not intended for cross-country use, the French came up with the Renault Avantine, a 3-door, 4 seater MPV!!!
Cheers, SS
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In the 70's and 80's there was a French 4x4 called the Cournil. It was not unlike a Land Rover but, if anything, more rugged. I think a Portugese company made something similar, but I can't remember the name.
ttumm1.no.sapo.pt/imagens/outros_umm/rui_rosa.jpg
Cheers, SS
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Found it: Here's the Portugese one, the UMM Alter - compare with Courniul photo posted above!
www.difflock.com/buyersguide/pastmasters/umm/image...g
Cheers. SS
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Citroen do make a big fast 4x4 for the Dakar rally.
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The French company Auverland produce a range of Land Rover type vehicles including military vehicles and first rate off roaders they are.
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The French buy a hell of alot of 4x4's! Toyota,Hyundai,Nissan etc. They mostly go to people that hunt or enjoy tax breaks on powerful engines. The "CV" system which classifies engine power and CO2 emisions gives you a maximum tax break of 13CV in France if you run your own business or are self-employed....and as 4x4's give the maximum allowance -independant workers tend to go for 4x4's. You simply tell the tax man how many km's you've done in the year and calculate your deduction from the CV table of 2CV up to 35 CV (4CV is the minimum and 13CV is the maximum). Company cars are not allowed to go over 7CV for example to reduce abuse of sytem and reduce emissions. Similar tax break is availbale in the US for heavy vehicules that can be considered 'utility' or van like. The tax breaks can even cover Porsche Cayennes! I think french manufacturers are waking up to the 4x4 market. Peugeot are in negotiations to buy Mitsubishi and of course Renault now sell Nissan's next to scenic's in France! We may remember a very good cross country car that didn't cost too much to run...and that's the 2CV! By the way the 2CV comes from this absurd system of CV....as the 2CV was it's exact tax code at the time and hence the name!
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We may remember a very good cross country car that didn't cost too much to run...and that's the 2CV!
That's the sort of comment that will likely get you virtually strung up by the anti-French team in here.
You've reminded me that the 2CV was available between 1958 and 1967 as a 2-engined 4x4, the Sahara, distingished by a D-shaped cooling vent in the boot and the spare wheel on the bonnet. About the same time the French Fire service commissioned a variation on this; it had 2 engines and was double-ended with a steering-wheel at each end of the car. The theory was that if you were trapped in a forest fire-break with fire ahead of you, you didn't need to turn the car around, you just hopped in the drivers seat facing away from the fire and floored it in the opposite direction. Ingenious. How the throttles and gears were arranged, I can't say.
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Sounds nasty! Anyway, my 2CV comment was made as a laugh and not to be taken too seriously? The French Firebrigade here in Montpellier run around in Land Rovers and probably wouldn't be seen dead in Citroen's. I ran a couple of 2CV's and honestly made it through the Alpes in heavy snow right to the top of our Ski station. I couldn't afford the snow chains at the time (not that they would fit anyway) and do remember leaving behind quite a few 'exotica' at the time on the road side (mostly BM'S and Mercedes. The DS was also a very good rally car....but, before I say anymore i'm going to verify that on a friends website......I get the feeling Hawkeye knows a quite a bit about Citroens? Tell us more.....
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