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Black Shirts - Lee
Just read that the police are going to offer rewards to anyone who shops a drink driver, could be as much as 500 pounds.

Now I'm all for removing the drunk drivers from the roads, but where is all this heading? Will I be able to phone the council when I find someone in a car park with an expired parking ticket?

What does everyone think to this?

There's more detail at :

news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_168200...m

(You can select the above address, then copy and paste it into your browser)
Re: Black Shirts - Colin Standing
Lee.. Like your first sentence; not too keen on the second.

For my money, drunken drivers should, amongst other more usual penalties, be made to watch their cars publicly torched in the local market square in front of an invited audience. If enough thumbs up appeared in the watching throng, the vehicle would be given to charity.

Colin
Re: Black Shirts - Lee H
I'm not sure I'd make them watch. How's about making them sit in the driving seat?
Re: Black Shirts - Gary
If the £500 reward saves someones life then its definately worth it. Get rid of these potential fatalities once and for all.
How would you go about shopping someone in, just a thought could give up the day job and sit outside pubs all night I'm sure you would be successful in shopping three a night!
Re: Black Shirts - Dave
Gary wrote:
>
> If the £500 reward saves someones life then its definately
> worth it. Get rid of these potential fatalities once and for
> all.

I agree!

1 in 7 accidents are cause by bad eyesight!

Shop any bastard who drives without a recent eye test.
Re: Black Shirts - markymarkn
problem is, if the police only rely on other people shoppin drink drivers this may be for the worst, as i doubt a lot of people would shop their mates.
Re: Black Shirts - Gary
Going back to a previous article by Alwyn who was sending a letter to the Welsh Commission, apparently jaywalkers are to blaim for a number of fatalities these people should be shopped as well. Basically shop anyone who is drunk!
Re: Black Shirts - Brian
Why the cash incentive.
If I see someone weaving all over the road I would be inclined to ring in with their number before they kill themselves or someone else.
And will it stop at drunks.
Before we know it we will have vigilantes armed with video cameras looking for any infringement of our archaic laws to earn an extra buck.
Re: Black Shirts - Moosh
Maybe you should rename your piece......black turban, the Taliban.
If we go down this 'road' ....... the thin end of the wedge?
Re: Black Shirts - Richard Hall
I suspect the police will be buried under malicious phone calls from people trying to cause hassle for their neighbours (by getting them pulled by the police every evening whether they have been drinking or not) and even more people turning the scheme into a mini National Lottery by reporting every car they see leaving their local pub car park, in the hope of winning £500 for Christmas. Expect this new initiative to be quietly dropped in a couple of weeks time.
Re: Black Shirts - Alwyn
What is to stop us spiking someone's drink and turning them in for few bob?

I read somewhere that driving whilst having the flu is just as dangerous as drunk driving.

Impossible to sneeze whilst keeping the eyes open. At 70 mph...how far would we travel with our eyes closed.

What about those on Valium or other downers? I knew a lady some time ago who would drive having taken them. Her speech was so slurred you would think she was sloshed. Was she safe to be driving?

A nasty lady who lives hear here has severe athritis but drives an unadapted car. She can hardly walk and I wonder how quickly she could stamp on the brakes in an emergency. Quicker than a drunk? Maybe.

Are we expert on degrees of drunkeness? If someone drives having drunk three pints, that is very likely to be over the limit. They might be driving perfectly correctly and some sober fool comes the other way and smashes into them. Who is blamed and why?

BTW I have become a boring old **** and never drink and drive. Why not make the limit zero, then we would all know where we stand.

But then we have the problem of drinking a few at night and driving to work next morning; possibly still sloshed and unaware.

Lets be careful out there.
Re: Black Shirts - Jonathan
The bit of this I don't like is the fact that the more drunk they are, the more money the snitch gets.

There was a woman on R4 this afternoon saying that she would shop her husband i she knew he was going to drink drive. Nice one, why not just pinch his keys. Much better and you don't lose the house in the process.

If they have been drinking and come home, you cannot secure a conviction as there is no direct evidence of a crime, so again pointless (just creates even more animosity at xmas).

The other problem is, how are the police actually going to catch the drink drivers? Will they speed to catch up with one, what information will you need to provide to secure a prize (sorry reward)?

Jonathan
Re: Black Shirts - Dwight Van-Driver


Well done you got a brain brian
DVD
Re: Black Shirts - Piers
How many dishonest people would spike someones drinks for £500? Quite a few I reckon. A swap to a high strength brew or a double measure with mixer might push a legal (but not very sensible) driver over the limit without them realising - so next time someone acts generously and gets a round in they could be plotting how they will spend their £500 windfall!

Piers
Re: Black Shirts - Dave
Piers wrote:
>
> How many dishonest people would spike someones drinks for
> £500?

Would that be dishonest?

The person *would* be drink driving so presumably they have no defence.

THe only question would be is it legal to give someone th eworng drink?

You suggestion could be perfectly legal.

But I guess it would be morally dubious to create Drink Drivers for profit.
Mickey Finn - Diesel Dave
The case would never stand up if it could be proved that someone spiked your drink. This happened in Nantwich a few years ago, someone was "unknowingly" drinking alcoholic alcopos which he believed was soda water & got breath tested- he walked free.
Re: Black Shirts - Marman
By all means report someone for driving while under the influence but the £500 reward is gross and should never be handed out to anyone for personal gain but should be donated to a registered charity. The trouble is I also know a number of stone cold sober drivers I would rather not be in the passenger seat with and would feel more inclined to take my chances with a driver who had had three pints, I would feel much safer. After saying this I could not condone anyone driving under the influence I use this only as an example, there are many sober drivers should be banned, who are much more dangerous than somebody slightly over the limit.
Re: Black Shirts - richard turpin
The Nazis used to do this. Especially to train children to report on their parents. Beware.
Re: Black Shirts - IO
The Nazis *used* to do this?!
Re: Black Shirts - THe Growler
I'm amazed anyone in Britain would even give this the time of the day as a discussion point. It would be a Finks' Charter. My old man who fought in two WW's would turn in his grave.
Re: Black Shirts - Lee H
Fink's charter, yes.

My point is that Drink Driving is rightly seen as abhorrent, and should be stamped out by whatever means necessary.

_However_ I'm just a bit worried that if it proves a success, it'll lead to other offences being treated the same way, and our police are woefully underfunded to be able to handle such a deluge.

The solution is to hand the proceeds of a conviction to the enforcement agencies.

But this is where it falls down, IMHO. Towns & Cities in England are flooded with police traffic wardens, council parking attendants and clamping companies, all waiting to pounce on you if you overstay your ticket by five minutes.

A few years back, I was relieved of my money, walkman and credit cards by a jolly youth weilding a knife in Manchester. The chances of catching him are somewhat less than me picking up a ticket for parking outside G-MEX for an extra ten minutes.

Maybe we'll end up with Drink Driver nicking companies, lurking around pubs, homes and parties armed with mobile phones programmed with the "Crimestoppers" number. Then, eventually, the police force could be privatised and turn a profit.....

Lee.

PS - Apologies to anyone offended by the thread title - I was just trying to raise a reaction, and not offer disrespect to war heroes.
Re: Black Shirts - Ian (cape town)
when were Oswald Moseley's (Or Il Duce's) boys heroes?
Re: Black Shirts - Lee H
OOps, just re-read that.

that's exactly what I _DIDN'T_ mean to say.

Lee.
Re: Black Shirts - Ian (cape town)
ok.
I'll just take your name off the NF mailing list, then...
:>)
Re: Black Shirts - alvin booth
We all begin by agreeing that no sensible decent person condones drunk drivers. I think that goes without saying.
But..... where does this end. We are in effect creating a private mass surveillance organisation on each other.
And just how would this work. Someone is reported, do the Police check immediately to find the keeper and go to his house with a breathalyser or put an alert out to all patrols??
And what redress after the police have screamed to a stop outside your house and find you are within the limit or haven't been drinking.
Do you then get the £500 for the embarrassment for the stress caused.
In some parts of the country the Police don't turn up for a couple of days after a reported burglary so they would have to improve their performance.
And would the Police disclose the informer to the suspected offender?? so many questions it just isn't practible.
Alvin
Re: Black Shirts - Dwight Van-Driver
As I understand this, this 'Christmas' drink drive iniative, has been promoted by Thames Valley police and to some extent it is a success because it has already got motorists talking. It is a seasonal time of year where consumption of the falling down liquid increases dramatically - and so it should to every ones enjoyment. Drink and driving JUST DO NOT MIX, so hey everyone obey this rule and do not get carried away and take the wheel only when sober. Result, a 'big brother' culture is defeated.
Remember the residual effect can last for many hours so driving next morning you could still be over the prescribed limit.
Remember that Mr Plod can only demand a breath test after an accident or if HE reasonably suspects you of driving having consumed alcohol. Random tests not yet law but fast approaching.
Spiked drinks? If it can be proved so, then there was a stated case years ago which prevents a 'Guilty' verdict being returned.
Thames Valley featured in a Police programme last Sunday and if you were observant you would have noticed that within the day there was a hell of a lot of 'shouts' ,hours old, that had not been actioned because of lack of resources. Cannot see how this latest scheme is going to help.
My final comment to you all is IF YOU DRINK DON'T DRIVE - IF YOU DRIVE DON'T DRINK. Simple, isn't it and by doing so I will enjoy your comments next year.
Re: Black Shirts - IO
If you keep a close eye on the reports you might just pick up the fact that, despite vastly greater (ten times the norm) numbers of motorists being stopped in Christmas Drink-Drive Campaigns, only the usual number of drunks are prosecuted.

Funny that.

And if you keep an eye on related stories you'll find refence to the fact that the usual suspects are well known to the police.

And that Christmas isn't the worst time for drink driving anyway.

Perhaps all the stories of presents being stolen from under the tree isn't down to the increased presents, but decreased presence.

And with what justification?
Re: Black Shirts - Ian (cape town)
IO,
< >

Probably for one of two reasons -
(a) Great time of the year to have a "let's go out and show the public we are actually doing our job" campaign
or
(b) A "I'm pissed off that I have to work tonight and everybody else is out having a good time" attitude from the blokes with flashing lights.
Call me a cynic ...
Re: Black Shirts - Darcy Kitchin
OK you are a cynic, but you may have a point
Re: Black Shirts - Rob
My comment will no doubt disgust a lot of people. But I don't think having a couple of drinks and driving is bad. I'm sorry. But I don't, and I resent having to pretend that I do.

I got pulled over into a coned area on the A4 in Bristol last year by Policemen handing out sanctimonious leaflets. The PC said to me "You don't agree with drinking and driving, do you?" I'm not being melodramatic, but that was an encounter with the thought police.

Now I'm being offered £500 to bleat the same thing. It makes me feel physically sick. If anyone ever asks me how I'd feel if I lost someone I loved to a drink driver, they may very well lose themselves to my wrath.

Rob
Re: Black Shirts - Dave
Rob wrote:
>
> My comment will no doubt disgust a lot of people. But I
> don't think having a couple of drinks and driving is bad.

Hmmm. Bad or not is completely subjective, but we can *all* think of things to do in a car that don't concern the police but are *more* dangerous.

To make my point I'll list seven:

1) Going without sleep for an extended period.
2) Taking sleeping tablets/other legal drugs.
3) Poor eyesight.
4) Smoking.
5) Looking in the glove box in motion.
6) Driving under the influence of drugs.
7) Map reading in motion.
8) Crashing.

The reason the police like to chase drink driving so much is that they have a simple objective test to determine guilt.

8 Makes me laugh most. Doing something that *may* cause a crash is more heavily enforced than actually crashing.
Re: Black Shirts - BrianT
Richard Hall has hit the nail on the head! People will try this as a lottery and a lot of Police time will be wasted.
If you fear this might spread to vigilante groups targeting other offences you are too late! The Police in one area are equiping village NIMBY's with speed guns to report anyone exceeding the limit in the village! You aint seen nothing yet with this sort of thing!
Re: Black Shirts - Sue
Didn't they do this last year? Can't remember if there was a reward or not but I'm sure there was publicity for 'shopping' drink-drivers.