|
Rumour has it, if you play it backwards, you get satanic messages ;o)
|
|
|
|
Quite right MRLBS. Thankyou for your help. You've probably saved me quite a lot of money.
|
|
|
See, I know this stuff, you guys have to look it up, then all you can do is make smart *** remarks. Pre-Google you'd be nowhere.
Hands up who's ever ridden a Vincent? Thought not.
We have our own Ace Cafe equivalent : www.handlebar.com.ph
And to think I was going to publish some of our biker babes pix from last weeks' Biketoberfest on the HJ MSN site........
|
>>Hands up who's ever ridden a Vincent? Thought not.
Ridden on the back of one, does that count ? My Biology teacher had one.
|
|
|
|
Vincent Comet, but that hardly counts. Not terribly fast. Ferried it for "Mad George", an alleged Canadian at Keele. Later found out how he funded his small collection (Comet, Dragonfly, Triumph 650 combo, Honda 175, and others I forget) when he was taken away to account for his larceny.
|
|
|
"Hands up who's ever ridden a Vincent? Thought not."
I have, long ago; a Rapide. It was surprising how the weight disappeared once it was on the move, and I found the handling sharp. My yardstick at the time was these little Ducati singles. And (for the time) it did not half go. The brakes were good then, too.
Modern bikes bother me because the pedals are on the wrong side. And my last owned one was a 650 Yamaha turbo and I worried about dropping it, or rather about how the dickens I could pick it up. Is that why Harley people go about in gaggles, so that there is always a squad there to pick up any dropped heavy ironwork?
|
If you call 140 Hogs a gaggle, then we certainly had one last weekend at our Biketoberfest. Quite baffled the cops on the expressway.
Drop one? Oh yes now and then, but if you know the correct way to lift 'er: legs bent, hand on the bars, use your bum to push 'er, then straighten up, that is the medically approved way to lift 750lbs of Road King on your own. Works with biker mommas too ;+)
Doesn't work with rice rockets 'cos you can't get a grip on all that plastic with yer leathers. Not only that you might chip yer fingernails........
|
<
I havn't, but I did once ride into one. I was out for a late night spin on my Matchless 500 single when I overtook a van as it was turning left. The Vincent rider rode out without looking to see if there was anything behind the van, me! I hit the Vincent on the front forks. With two up the Vincent had enough inertia to stop my bike on the spot and send me flying like a bird until my head met the road. My safety helmet was made of cork and had a peak. My nose was scraped! The Vincents girder forks terminated my Matchless telescopic forks and its headlamp became oval as it contacted my knee. I was quite impressed.
I also acted as prosecution witness against the rider at the magistates court. He had a list of previous convictions.
Now, how about those plastic teaspoons? Did they have to chain them? Were they useful for measuring ReDex?
|
|
|
"Drop one? Oh yes now and then, but if you know the correct way to lift 'er: legs bent, hand on the bars, use your bum to push 'er, then straighten up, that is the medically approved way to lift 750lbs of Road King on your own. Works with biker mommas too ;+)"
My goodness, they must be big ladies!
|
<<"Drop one? Oh yes now and then, but if you know the correct way to lift 'er: legs bent, hand on the bars, use your bum to push 'er, then straighten up, that is the medically approved way to lift 750lbs of Road King on your own. Works with biker mommas too ;+)"
My goodness, they must be big ladies!"
Perhaps GRowler would like to give Growlette access to answer this one.
By the way, I want to show SWMBO and DNo1 the picture of Growlette which is on the site, but I don't know how to find it. Anyone help?
|
Hello all, Himself showed me this thread. Ace Cafe Black Shadow I don't know about, he always rabit on (English word?) about when he was a rocker, never-ending BS, but I wish I was there last July to meet HJ. No Vincents here but we do have Handle Bar Cafe (you see already anyway).
Me I weigh exactly 100lbs but I could still lift my Virago 400 that way easily when I had it. Big One made me practise. You just put your back to the bike, hunker down, grab saddle with one hand and bars with other hand and push up with your butt. You make sure jiffy stand is down and you do the shoving from the opposite side so that bike lands on its stand otherwise got to do it all over! :+) Told me check gas and oil and battery after in case leakage. Good teacher that one.
My Sportster 1200 I don't know. Much heavier bike. Don't plan on dropping it! No problem, we have so many big hunky Harley riders here in my country, too much San Miguel drinking and making bola bola. Anyway I love it, specially now summer here. Wud u believe we had 140 bikes nearly all HDs all riding side by side up expressway last Sunday to Bikefest? I was so proud now he threw away the mufflers and got me some drag pipes like he got.
Last thing: too many photos of us on HJ site. I don't like it, not good manners. I told him move them to other photo site we have.
Too much already.
Happy Halloween from Cathy.
PS: HF I owe u email. Sori, will reply.
|
Missy, I do NOT "rabit on". I provide informed analytical discourse on motorcycle types and their history based on many years' experience to anyone will listen and at great length.... Kindly show more respect.
/pompous mode off
The Black Shadow's front brakes were simply not up to its performance. Just imagine, asbestos Ferodo linings, 7" leading shoe (albeit on twin brakes, quite a novelty for the era, but try keeping them adjusted)--- IIRC before even Mintex came out with its compound linings, trying to stop 600 pounds of rapidly proceeding motorcycle. Not of course to say the C Series c. 1952 wasn't a magnificent bike. Simply that the technology and execution hadn't caught up with the design concepts of the era.
In its time the Vincent looked awesome because it was out of the reach of so many, simply that. Engineering wise it wasn't anything special, just what was then considered a big bike -- 998cc. Which in a nutshell sort of illustrates the demise alas of the British bike industry.
Somebody above mentioned the Triumph Tiger T100C. Beautiful lightweight fast bike with a 0-60 of about 8 secs ***. And that was 1957. I certainly recall a few of those at the Ace. BSA Road Rocket another, great colour scheme and chrome tank.
*** sadly, or not, depending on your viewpoint, equalled by the twin-carb Honda Benly 125cc Sport in 1963 when it first appeared on UK shores.
|
Thank you GRowler for telling me where to find the pictures. SWMBO and DN01 are very impressed mith Growlette and Muta, not so much with GRowler, can't please everyone, can you!
I'll bet that the 125cc Honda engine didn't last as long between rebuilds as the Tiger or the Road Rocket.
Growlette, what is the jiffy stand? My Golden Flash had a prop which used to swing out from the nearside. If that is the one then one has to be careful to fall off on the offside only. (I once put mine out at night onto a soft patch of path and it nailed me to the ground.) If it is the main stand, how do you lift 750lbs onto it? 750 divided by 100 equals 7.5 times body weight.
|
Jiffy stand is what you kick out when you park the bike and lean it over. That's what we call it. Cruisers have them but not another stand. When you get used to it and not scared you can flip the bike over on to it like he said, but Harley for me I don't think I could! My Virago was quite small so it was easy, but we sold that he said it was a cissy bike. He called it my moped!
Growlette/Cathy
|
|
|
"Hands up who's ever ridden a Vincent? Thought not."
Me, mister. My brother owned a Rapide (1,000 cc v-twin) but not as tuned as the Shadow.
When my brother was out for the evening it was surprising the number of occasions when it was essential for me to borrow his bike for the evening, without his permission.
The problem was you got more admiring looks from the blokes than the girls!
I think the only time I had an officially permitted ride on the Vincent, was when my own bike (Triumph Tiger 90 - 500cc single) had thrown me off in an 85mph tank slapper (speed wobble) and I had to ride myself to hospital to get my leg sewn up - I used to keep a spare spark plug in the pocket of my riding gear, it seemed a good idea at the time.
Happy days - I think
|
Hmmm- assume I'm not being trolled here:
The early Triumph Tiger was a 350cc single produced IIRC from about 1933 from a Val Page design and production eventually finished in 1938 or so.
I doubt one of these could manage 85 mph on a good day with a following wind, let alone a tank slapper. A 350 single was introduced for wartime use but failed to prove viable.
Edward Turner's vision for Triumphs was always a powerful OHV twin and that format persisted well into the 1970's with numerous copiers.
The Tiger 90 twin produced from 1963 to 69 was a 350cc unit construction twin based on the 3TA "bathtub" models produced in the late 1950's. It might well have managed 85 mph but it was a twin not a 500 cc single. Perhaps this what you meant.
Always willing to be proven wrong however.
Back to the Vincent. 7" twin cable operated brake drums with 7/8" IIRC linings. My old workshop foreman said Vincent-HRD would have been better making tractors1
|
|
Re the performance of the Vincents versus Triumphs etc. 1951 Motor Cycling yearbook in front of me states most powerful Triumph as the Tiger 100 @ 32 bhp (appox) with weight of 365 lb. Vincent Rapide: 45bhp, weight 455lb. Black Shadow: 56 bhp. weight 458lb. Black Lightning 86bhp, weight 458lbs. Triumph Tiger 100A speed twin? Road test showed all of 94.6, with the wind, at MIRA when tested on 10 march 1960. When the Bonneville was produced, Vincents were well 2nd hand. But in 1961 the Bonnie produced only 46 bhp and weighed 402lb with max speed at MIRA of 108mph. also, its handling was said to be "interesting" at high speed. (Motor Cycle road test 1 June 1961) I'd back a Vincent Black Shadow in its prime against the Triumph dinosaur!
|
Two pieces of trivia sprang to the top of my cluttered mind:
Vincent did actually make lawnmowers when they were going broke.
Jay Leno owns more than a dozen Black Shadows, it is said. I don't lnow if he rides them. given his TV ratings, if he does, his personal insurance premiums must be really something.
|
>>(Triumph Tiger 90 - 500cc single) had thrown me off in an 85mph tank slapper (speed wobble)
What causes a speed wobble? Is it some imbalance of the bike? I imagine that if the angle of the front forks is too steep then it might lead to instabilty. On the American drag racers (like Hells Angels bikes on the movies) the forks look almost horizontal. I wonder how easy it is to turn those bikes for corners.
|
Speed wobbles, or tank slappers are caused when the front end of the bike goes light under acceleration, usually when the rear suspension bottoms out. The energy has nowhere to go so the front forks fully extend and the wheel shakes violently from left to right. In anything other than expert hands this results in the rider being pitched off the bike. Steep steering angles accentuate this tendancy, though I doubt it effected any Hells Angles as their bikes usually have extended front forks and Harleys don't produce enough power to trouble the front end. (Sorry Growler)
The original Suzuki TLS 1000, which had a new type of rear shock earned a reputation for this after a couple of well publicised accidents, one of which was fatal. Experts were divided on whether the bike was flawed and Suzuki denied it had a problem though it recalled all machines and fitted a steering damper under pressure from the bike press. The mud stuck, however and the model was dropped after sales died off.
|
Steep steering angles accentuate this tendancy, though I doubt it effected any Hells Angles
Now there's a freudian slip if ever I saw one. :o)
|
|
Not my fawlt if you don't have a spill chucker on this sight.
|
>>>>>though I doubt it effected any Hells Angles as their bikes usually have extended front forks.
Bit of a generalisation and clarification called for. Choppers have extended forks, but by no means do all the 81's ride choppers. They are a relatively small part of the riding community (the famous 1%-ers) anyhow.
No I've never heard of a slapper on a Hog (although you do see a few beached whales on 'em in UK, unlike our lissom beauties here ..TIC,TIC,TIC) but then it's nice to ride a safe motorcycle (TIC) again.
But Black Shadows. I am casting my mind back to my dealership days and our workshop foreman Jack Durndell who was, with one wrencher I knew in the US, the finest motorcycle tech I've ever know. He was also irascible and didn't suffer fols gladly. I can still hear his language as he tried to synch those quad brakes on a locally owned Shadow, which was in about every week for something or other, including massive oil leaks, then when that was done, find or fabricate spacers and other bits to take up the slop in the Girdraulic forks. Sure the bike went like the proverbial off a shovel, but needed a lot of shop time to keep it in trim. Like so many of its day, the under-engineering was a function of the gap between designers' ideas and the factory floor's ability (or inability) or should I say capacity, to execute them.
The thing even had those dismal Miller electrics to begin with. Forget Lucas The Prince of Darkness, this was Candle in The Wind stuff. The 150 mph speedo under your nose was certainly impressive, although it was said the only time this was ever achieved was on the Bonneville Salt Flats or somewhere by a guy riding in a t-short and shorts!
(Jack's other pet hate which would drive him to paroxysms of purple was the Ariel Leader. If ever there was a less appropriate titler for a machine, this was it. Hence it became know in our parts as the Ariel Bleeder. Cheap and shoddy wasn't in it. And then there was the BSA Dandy, and the Triumph Tina).
Shut up and clear your desk now (Ed).
|
Wonder what happened to all those Ariel Leaders? Time was, round my way, about 7 out of 10 bikes were Leaders, with their twin exhaust plumes leaving a trail behind them.
Then, suddenly, all gone.
|
The Plod in W. Sussex had some for a while and my employer had the contract for servicing them. They were in every week. IIRC serious main bearing problems due to inadequate lubrication, along with the flimsy Wipac electrical systems. A variant was the Ariel Arrow, without the tinwork. Awful things. Honda was watching.......
|
Frostbite:
Wonder what happened to all those Ariel Leaders? Time was, round my way, about 7 out of 10 bikes were Leaders, with their twin exhaust plumes leaving a trail behind them.
Then, suddenly, all gone.
Growler
The Plod in W. Sussex had some for a while andmy employer had the contract for servicing them. They were in every week. IIRC serious main bearing problems due to inadequate lubrication, along with the flimsy Wipac electrical systems. A variant was the Ariel Arrow, without the tinwork. Awful things.
I had an Arrow - they were, in fact, quite nice things, apart from the "styling" and two-stroke fuel/oil smoke. They had 16" wheels, leading-link forks, and were nice handlers due to the stiffness of the frame. The engine was bomb-proof, and a "semi-unit" construction, the engine/gearbox casting was one piece, but the engine and gearbox were separately lubricated. You could take the engine to bits without taking it out of the frame, the crank was two-piece held together by a woodruff key and a big allen bolt down the middle. These machines were very easy to tune for performance, but then the 4-speed gearbox got to be rather a pain (narrower power band). The Arrow as standard was good for about 80mph (remember the hullabaloo when the much later Suzuki X7 250cc (I think) claimed 100MPH?). A.W. Mayle of Bletchley had a modified Arrow with a five (or six, can't remember) speed Quaife gearbox timed at 132MPH through the speed trap at Silverstone. My Arrow? I did some porting work, padded the crank, cut the points plate in half to enable accurate ignition timing of each cylinder, rather than a compromise, fitted some dodgy expansion chambers, and ran it on 20:1 fuel:oil. Straight plumes of grey choking smoke would issue from the stinger pipes and go about 2' before breaking up, it went very well and I estimate that it was good for 95MPH.
I sold it for £250 to some bloke who trailered it off.
|
For those of a technical/mathematical turn of mind, the following review paper explains the modes of vibration of motorcycles.
www.ee.ic.ac.uk/CAP/Reports/2001/mc_rev_01.pdf
In further papers authored by Sharp in particular, he goes on to say that the influence that the rider can exert over the tank slapper mode of vibration by muscular stiffening is slight. The appropriate fix is to increase steering damping.
number_cruncher
|
Wonder what happened to all those Ariel Leaders?
I haven't come across the Ariel Leader, does it have any relationship to the Ariel Square Four? Can someone define the two?
I saw a good number of Square 4s when I was in the UK, mostly with sidecars. When I was in Central Africa I was told that the model was not a success there because the two rear cylinders were prone to overheating.
|
>> Wonder what happened to all those Ariel Leaders? I haven't come across the Ariel Leader, does it have any relationship to the Ariel Square Four? Can someone define the two?
A Leader/Arrow is a 250cc two-stroke twin. A Square Four is a 1,000 CC four-stroke 4 cylinder, pots arranged in a square configuration, as if at the corners of a box. My memory is imperfect, but I think that the 4G? 5G? was the best - it's a long time ago!!!
I saw a good number of Square 4s when I was in the UK, mostly with sidecars. When I was in Central Africa I was told that the model was not a success there because the two rear cylinders were prone to overheating.
That is true. Whether or not the 10% temperature difference made a big difference, I don't know.
|
|
Well I have a Vincent Twin. It arrived here in Canada about two months ago, from Australia where I bought it. It is a Rapide which has had all the Black Shadow upgrades plus hot electronic ignition, bigger carbs, some high compression pistons, and the hotter MK11 carbs. It is very fast, as my brother-inlaw (Yamaha 650 magna four) will attest. I was out with him and another friend on an older 650 Yamaha parallel twin, and the Vincent blew by them both on a hill,all three bikes flat out, and I mean blew by. The didn't mind a bit, as they both like old Brit bikes, and we all feel the Vincent is top of the heap for old Brit Bikes. I can tell you there is some substance to the Vincent legend.
|
|
Well I have a Vincent Twin. It arrived here in Canada about two months ago, from Australia where I bought it. It is a Rapide which has had all the Black Shadow upgrades plus hot electronic ignition, bigger carbs, some high compression pistons, and the hotter MK11 cams. It is very fast, as my brother-inlaw (Yamaha 650 magna four) will attest. I was out with him and another friend on an older 650 Yamaha parallel twin, and the Vincent blew by them both on a hill,all three bikes flat out, and I mean blew by. The didn't mind a bit, as they both like old Brit bikes, and we all feel the Vincent is top of the heap for old Brit Bikes. I can tell you there is some substance to the Vincent legend.
|
|
Hmmm- assume I'm not being trolled here: The early Triumph Tiger was a 350cc single produced IIRC from about 1933 from a Val Page design and production eventually finished in 1938 or so. I doubt one of these could manage 85 mph on a good day with a following wind, let alone a tank slapper. A 350 single was introduced for wartime use but failed to prove viable.
I don't know the meaning of "being trolled" would it be some reference to fairy stories?
The bike I owned in those days was a 1937 Triumph tiger 90 it was a 500cc single cylinder and it would regularly show an indicated 85mph - wasn't the 350cc single called the Tiger 80?
There was no skill at all required in having a tank slapper (speed wobble)
I hope this clarifies my experience.
regards drbe
|
BR'ers keep bringing up vintage bikes, how about this in the High Peak Courier?
The BuxtonMuseum & Art Gallery has exhibits dating back 200 years, including a Norton Commander ex-police motorbike.
The edition has a picture on the front page of cheque presentation ceremony by the retiring Carnival Queen of Derbyshire. The cheque is presented to the National Association for Bikers with a Disability (NADB). ...the organisation not only helps bikers injured in accidents return to biking, it also helps disabled people who have never ridden before.
Very laudible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I used to have one. Black Shadow.
|
|
|
|
|
