Wonder if the Ford TDCi 2.2 155ps/400nm diesel will fitted to the Jaguar X-Type, a sport estate with that engine could well be my ideal car?
|
Just found this on What Car:
"Jaguar has also announced plans for a new high-performance diesel version of the X-Type compact executive, to be launched next year"
This could be the 2.2, though the 2.7 V6 diesel might fit under the X-Type bonnet.
|
|
Question is though if it was the 2.7 would the boffins at Jag be able to use the 4x4 system? This has put me off buying a 2.0d recently on the basis that it is FWD, albeit that as a recent courtesy car it was OK but not OK enough.
|
|
forgot to mention - you cannot get the 2.0d in an auto box either which I prefer
|
|
|
|
Yep, the X-Type will be fitted with the 2.2 TDCi debuting in the Mondeo Titanium/ST TDCi and this will be early next year. No exact dates as of yet...
|
|
|
Dan - as you work for Ford perhaps you could persuade them to put a 6-cylinder diesel in the X-type.
I looked closely at the X-type estate but the Mondeo 2.0 diesel wasn't quite lively enough or refined enough for the rest of the car which I thought was very good, especially the incredibly smooth ride. Hence the Audi, which is excellent but it would be nice to be able to consider buying British again.
|
No 2.0 diesel is more torquey than the Ford TDCi 130 though it seems to be a little softer when fitted in the Jag, perhaps more in character with the car, agree a 6 cylinder would be nice though it would be less economical. Modern 1.9 to 2.2 4 cyl diesels such as the TDCi are punchy and can achieve 50 + MPG, V6's (such as in the Passat, compare 1.9 & 2.5 figures) offer little extra performance at the expence of as much as 10mpg.
The TDCi 2.2 in the Jag should give stonking performance and best part of 50 mpg.
|
|
PS: I'm talking small/medium saloons, once you get to S-Types and the like then a V6 is clearly the way to go.
|
|
|
|
Avant...agreed! Personally I'd have loved to have seen the 2.7DV6 engine plus four wheel drive in the X-Type. Sadly the current engine does not fit and I've not heard of any plans to rectify this. The 2.2 should still be an exceptional car though and I'm personally thankful that Jaguar are now taking the diesel market seriously.
Interestingly the XJD6, although a larger car, due to it's aluminium construction is lighter, faster and more economical than the 2.7D S-Type with which it shares an engine.
I was very sceptical about how good this engine would be but frankly I think it puts us on a competetive level with the likes of BMW and Mercedes. Once the premium engine is available (so far appears to be a diesel V8 which will make an appearance mid next year) I think we're finally there. At least enginewise...
|
Dan
Do you know whether this 2.2 engine can / should handle an auto box? if so sounds like it could be a contender for my next car in a years time (in estate form)
|
|
Mondeo TDCi 130 has an excellent "tiptronic" type auto box as an option, (not sure if is an option on the 2.0 diesel Jag), chances are it could be fitted to the 2.2, question is whether it can handle the extra torque.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting bit of news which I don't think there is a problem with sharing - the 2.2TDCi engine as it is currently manufactured will not fit into the X-Type, a fact which only recently seems to have been discovered. Wouldn't worry too much though, I expect it to be *made* to fit...
|
|
Other than the badge, what will an X-Type diesel offer that a £16k Ford Mondeo ST TDCi from a broker won't?
|
Other than the badge, what will an X-Type diesel offer that a £16k Ford Mondeo ST TDCi from a broker won't?
How about:
- better styling
- better build quality
- better dealer support
- better residuals
its all about choice. Exactly the same question can be said for so many cars (eg A3 v Golf v Leon v Octavia).
|
No, it's all about marketing, all about adding percieved value, if the X-Type costs 10% more to build than the Mondeo it is based on and Ford (sorry Jaguar) can sell it for 15% more then they are:
1/ In the money
2/ Competing profitably in another segment
Better styling, reckon both look good, the Jag estate appeals because it is based on the saloon dimensions, i.e. a sporting estate rather than being lenghtened load carrier as per the Mondeo estate, On the other hand the Mondeo hatch is much more practicle than the Jag saloon.
Build quality, not much in it.
Dealers, you pay for what you get, Jag dealers can afford to be more flexible with their greater margin.
Residuals, an '02 X-Type 2.0 would be worth about £12k on average miles (cost £21k, lost £9k) where as a Mondeo 2.0 Zetec of the same age/mileage would be worth £9k (cost £16.5k, lost £7.5k).
|
Yes its all about Marketing - thats how business works. And yes no doubt there is a better profit margin in a Jag.
However, my point was that it is all about choice. I believe the styling is better, the quality is better, the dealer are (infinitely) better and in % terms, I would back a Jag against a Mondeo any day (ST or not).
What do I drive? Yes its an X-Type. Have I regretted it for one minute - no. What was my previous car - a Ford.
|
Just shows that the marketing works, you have paid more for basically the same car. I am not critising, I quite fancy the X-Type estate myself.
One other point, keen drivers of a two wheel drive X-Type would find a Mondeo's handling a revelation, it is set up to be sharper and more responsive. Main reason is that the X-Type rear suspension is actually based on the Mondeo estate and not the 4/5 door which have a complex multi link system.
|
Yep - thats why Hugo Boss, Mont Blanc pens, B&O hifi etc all exist.
Hadn't realised the estate had different suspension - the road tests have said it's as good as the saloon. I might consider the 2.2d Estate if they do an auto, although the new 2005 specs might put me off.
There's no doubt the Jag is set up for comfort and not a 'sporty' drive like the Mondeo (and mine has the sports suspension).
|
|
To clarify the X-Types all have basically the same supension layout, whether 2 wheel drive, 4 wheel drive, saloon or estate. They are all based on the Mondeo estate system. The Mondeo hatch and saloon have a different rear suspension set up.
|
|
|
|
Other than the badge,
more wooden bits?
|
|
|
|
|
The 2.2 TDCi is no different from the 2.0, internal dimesions plus a few ancilliaries are only changes. If a rumour abounds about it not fitting the Jaguar it could refer to the unique-to-Jaguar gear box not being able to handle the v-high torque, or perhaps the desire to launch a 4x4 diesel and the complexity of fitting a the TDCi unit to the X-Type 4 wheel drive system.
|
I would debate whether residuals on a £20k X Type 2.0D are better than that on a £16k ST TDCi.
Mondeo ST residuals seem to buck the trend as far as depreciation disasters go - take a look at the ST200. Oldest of these are now well over 5 years old but still command prices of £6-8k for a decent one.
Would an X-Type 2.0D loose less than £10k in 5 years? You bet it will not.
|
|
|
There are "minor" physical differences between the engine which mean it will not fit the X-Type Jaguar - it isn't just due to ancilliaries.
Why has this happened? During original discussions, Jaguar were not even remotely interested in even discussing the possibility of a diesel engine. When the penny dropped, so to speak, it was too late. The 2.0 diesel can be made to fit but the 2.2, in its current form, cannot.
|
Car Magazine this month are reporting that the S Type 2.7 litre twin turbo diesel will be offered in the X Type to compete with the 330d.
Now I would be interested in that - especially if it comes with 4wd and auto.
|
|
|
|
Dan, Even the engine mount points are the same, basically if it fits a Mondeo it will fit an X-Type, must be gear box compatibility, perhaps Jaguar would want to continue to use there own 5 speed so as to differentiate more from the Ford. Post below ref: CAR mag is interesting though could be speculation.
|
Dan, Even the engine mount points are the same, basically if it fits a Mondeo it will fit an X-Type, must be gear box compatibility, perhaps Jaguar would want to continue to use there own 5 speed so as to differentiate more from the Ford. Post below ref: CAR mag is interesting though could be speculation.
Don't take this the wrong way Cheddar but I work for Ford and moreover a very good friend of mine works with the 'Puma' line in Dagenham. The same line builds the 2.4 Transit engine which is essentially from the same block and trust me, that won't fit the Jag or the Mondeo either for that matter. The 2.2 is Mondeo only and very likely to stay that way...
Not heard anything as regards the 2.7 going into the X-Type but it's a nice thought...
|
|
Dan, Look under the bonnet of a 2.2 TDCi, I reckon it's all in the same place as the 2.0. Again I say it must be a matter of compatibility with Jag specific components.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
