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France via Eurotunnel - patently
I'm off to France at the end of the month via the tunnel, for the first time.

My main question is re the Eurotunnel fare - they offer a "flexible short stay" at £193 and a "Club" ticket at £293. So far as I can tell, the only difference apart from free snacks & a newspaper (which don't bother me) are that the FSS is only valid on the train that I book, whereas the Club ticket seems to promise that I'll go on the next available departure.

As I have to use the M40, M25 and M27 to get to Folkestone, I'm a little wary about being locked into one departure time. The FSS suggests that you might be able to go on a later train "if there is availability".

Does anyone have useful experience of this? How busy are Eurotunnel? £100 extra seems a bit steep!

And, obviously, any suggestion as to how to negotiate France and the centre of Paris would be greatly appreciated!
France via Eurotunnel - Stuartli
Eurotunnel is quick, generally painless and soulless - only had tickets that permit any departure so can't comment.

Ferry is slower - around 75 minutes as against 35 minutes. However, you can walk around the ship, go shopping onboard or enjoy a (generally excellent) meal. It's fun and provides a longer break from driving before setting off in France.

The A1 to Paris can be busy, can be quiet, requires stops for tolls that vary timewise according to traffic volumes.

We've often chosen to switch to the quieter non-toll alternative roads - good speed can be maintained and there are much more satisfying views of the French countryside.

The centre of Paris should be avoided if at all possible, especially during the rush hour periods. Drivers are, in many cases, absolutely mad as is the case in other countries such as Portugal, Spain and Italy.

Some of the scariest moments I've ever had driving have been negotiating the Arch de Triomphe roundabout, but the drive down the Champs-Elysées afterwards always makes up for it.

I'm presuming you've driven abroad before but it's still well worth ensuring that you constantly remind yourself about driving on the right.

I've known even experienced UK long termers have a temporary loss of concentration, especially first thing in the morning or after stopping for a meal.
France via Eurotunnel - Rebecca {P}
We've always gone on the cheapest possible fare (not Club) and have always gone on the next available crossing when we get there (early). I don't think that they are obliged to let you on, but in practice and in our experience, they always do.

The other Club advantage, is you get on/off first, but I don't think that's such a big deal for the tunnel.
France via Eurotunnel - terryb
Patently

You don't say where you're going in France. If you're off to the centre of Paris the only advice I'd give is go by train! If you're going south of Paris, avoid the centre and take the Francilienne, which is a sort of East Circular road and takes you under the runways at CDG. The AA web site route planner is particularly good at describing this route.

Re the tunnel, my experience is that they'll put you on whatever train they feel like anyway so I'd be relaxed about it. Hateful way to cross the channel though. I presume Speedferries were fully booked?

--
Terry
France via Eurotunnel - dilbert
I'd take the tunnel every time over a ferry. Loads less hassle and usually really quick.

You don't mention what is the charge for the change of ticket? IIRC it'll be something like £30 each way. I'd be tempted just to pay the club fare and take your time to arrive when it suits you. Having said that, I've changed a ticket a few times and I've not had a problem with availability on earlier/later departures.

My biggest irriation with the tunnel is UK customs on the French side. They're often so busy persecuting day-trip shoppers that the quene to get on the trains is sometimes all the way through the car park and back out to the check-in booths. You can sit in a queue for ages when this happens. No problem however, as they'll just put you on the next departure when you get there, like terryb says.

Therfore, it might be wise to try and miss peak day trip travel times. I think that the cheap day trip tickets require return to the UK before 4pm - I would make a guess that between 3 and 5 in the afternoon is therefore best avoided.




France via Eurotunnel - patently
Thanks for the answers so far. Looks like the £100 extra for club is a bit pointless.

I'm heading for the centre of Paris. Normally I'd take the train without question, but this trip is part of a more complex plan hence I need the car. I'll be keeping well clear of the Arc de T!
France via Eurotunnel - Dulwich Estate
In my experience (say 6 -7 return times now)they have never put me on the right train. The time printed on the ticket doesn't seem to match up with the times of the trains. I've probably managed to go early once, but more often than not the delay is around 30 minutes.

IMHO - supposedly quicker than the catamaran but with the waiting/delays - there's not much in it. Having said that though, last time I went Hoverspeed the outbound sailing was delayed an hour because the ramp was broken and needed fixing and the return one was cancelled.

I'd love a bridge.

Paris? Use the metro! Avoid driving like the plague! Even the Autoroute around it is hellish. 2 hours of ever increasing blood pressure until you get to the other side.
France via Eurotunnel - Altea Ego
With the cheap tickets they will charge you 30 pounds if you arrive at the ticket gate later than your departure time. You are given a check in time and a departure time. Last time i went out i missed the checkin time but was before the departure time and they put me in the next available train. On the way back I missed the departure time and they charged me 30 quid and put me on the next train.

So the most you could get stung for for being late departing and returning is 60 quid.
France via Eurotunnel - stackman
Used the tunnel 3 times. Each time we've been lucky enough to turn up early and been put straight on the next available train at no extra cost. Fortunately we've never turned up late.

If you want to travel at say 9.00am, book a crossing for 10.00am but turn up at 8.30am. Chances are that you will be allowed on the 9.00am train. Can't guarantee it will work but might be worth a try.

Have used Hoverspeed a couple of times and found them to be fairly flexible. This year we arrived for the 6.00am ferry at 4.30am and got shooed straight on to the 5.00am boat. When we wanted to change coming back from 12.30pm Monday to Sunday evening we phoned from France on Friday and they were able to switch us, again at no extra cost.
France via Eurotunnel - Happy Blue!
Oh come on P!! Go round the Arc de T for us all and tell us what it's like in a RHD Porker. Go for 5pm as well to increase the interest!!
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
France via Eurotunnel - patently
If you think I'm taking the 911 there then you have another thing coming! No, sadly it's the BMW.

I think I could tell you what it would be like for a RHD 911 round the A de T at 5pm driven by a Paris newbie, but the moderating policy prevents...
France via Eurotunnel - Dulwich Estate
Reading all the above posts, either you're all very lucky or I've just had a long, bad, bad run of luck. It's years now since the train, cataraman or boat I've caught has a) not been delayed b) not been cancelled.

The last time I came back (early August) Sea France charged me £30 for the Calais/Dover crossing 1 hour before my ticket time.

And the cost of the food on board - staggering.

It may be relevant that I always try and get the cheapest deal/special offer/net price.
France via Eurotunnel - Bromptonaut
Seafrance have on a couple of occasions shunted me up f.o.c but on their offer rather than my request and probably between sailings in the same tariff.

Most recently used Norfolkline, excellent ferry with no frills, just bar, restaurant and small shop. Lots of outside deck space and indoor observation lounges with panoramic forward views.

£118 out Sunday back Friday in July August. Probably cheaper now with the addition of the Speedferries factor.
France via Eurotunnel - malteser
I can fully endorse Bromptonaut's positive comments regarding Norfolk Line.

Absolutley no trouble in putting us on an earlier crossing from Dunkirk to Calais. More attuned to HGV business, so uncrowded and the food is, by Seafrance/P&O standards, cheap and good.
Will certainly use again if we can face the 2250 km drive from home to the ferry port!

This is not motoring related, but for those who use the budget airlines, look on ebay.co.uk, under "tickets" and you will find a couple of software sellers who produce applications to search the airline's site for ALL flights between your specified dates, show the results including fares and then will take you to the booking page of your airline.
The versions I have are for easyJet, BMIBaby and Ryanair at around £5 to£6 per CD. The versions I have are by "chloeboo2000" (ebay seller name) and work well.
Usual disclaimer about connection to vendor other than as a satisfied customer!
--
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
France via Eurotunnel - Rebecca {P}
And www.traveljungle.co.uk will search across loads of airlines, including no-frills, but you have to choose your dates. Saves time going from site to site, as if there's a flight you like, you click through to the airline's site where the details are already input.
France via Eurotunnel - Altea Ego
"Absolutley no trouble in putting us on an earlier crossing from Dunkirk to Calais."

Well I for one would drive from Dunkirk to Calais, its not far - less than an hour on the autoroute!

(said with a vbg btw ;)
France via Eurotunnel - malteser
DUH!
Shows you should check BEFORE you post!
Dunquerke to Dover of course!
--
Roger. (Costa del Sol, España)
France via Eurotunnel - PhilW
Uk side of the chunnel can be a bit picky about times but as someone has said above, try to arrive a bit early and chances are you will get on an earlier train. I don't think they are ever full. French side don't seem to care when you have booked - they just bung you on the next available. I suppose it comes from people driving from S of France, Spain, Italy etc where you could be hours out in arrival time.
We have hardly ever used the train we have booked on when returning but UK side often make you wait half an hour - I assume that's to get you to use the shops/cafes since instead of driving straight to departure they now send you round by the shops' car park!
As for getting to Paris I wouldn't use the A1. It's the route everyone uses from the industrial Nord (Lille etc)and what's more it picks up all the traffic going south from Belgium and Holland - the surface is bad in places also.. I would use the "new" A16. It links Dover to Boulogne, Amiens, Beauvais and Paris. It's always been very quiet when we have used it and has much nicer services (Try Aire de la Baie de Somme just before Abbeville). Tolls aren't very much and if you use the Via Michelin website it tells you exactly the distance and tolls

www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/gbr/dyn/controller...e?
From memory tolls are about £10
As for driving in Paris, well I've done it many a time and my daughter (25 yr old) has done it a couple of times and it ain't that bad - certainly no worse than London. My advice would be to take your time, smile sweetly at those who honk the horn but once you are in Paris use public transport. By the way, when drivers gesticulate at you they usually do it at the passenger, not realising it's RHD so your wife (girlfriend/mistress???!!) bears the brunt. Good fun to get her to wave her arms in the air in mock panic - look no hands!! to see their response! The ride down from Sacre Coeur on a bus at breakneck speed through narrow streets with cars parked either side is so much fun it's worth repeating several times. Buy one of their saver tickets which you can use on bus, metro and RER.
Enjoy Paris, it's a wonderful place, we go every year, sometimes twice - and always by car!!
France via Eurotunnel - gsb
I also prefer tunnel, no risk of feeling seasick and then a long drive.
After they wanted to charge me £30 to leave about an hour earlier than my ticket,which I declined I bought some E/tunnel shares to take advantage of the benefits.(This only really appies to 6 days plus trips.)
You need to hold 1000 shares (about £200 today)for 6 months to benefit from 30% off of 3 Standard return fares per year. It does not save you any money over the cheap deals they offer but the tickets are fully refundable and changeable without cost. (see their website)Also you can use the club class check in lanes on arrival which can be useful at peak times.
((although the shares do not pay any dividends you never know they might go up one day (or of course down))

Hope this is of interest to some
France via Eurotunnel - Orson {P}
As a frequent visitor to Paris, both work and fun, I usually drive as far as the hotel (wherever that is) and then metro until it's time to leave. You can usually find somewhere to leave the car for nothing. I quite often stay at the Etap Porte de Vincennes - clean, modern, cheap and on the Metro line 1.

They also hire bikes for pennies - there's an outlet on the side of the Les Halles shopping centre by St Eustache. It's a real hoot - lots of cycle lanes, and I even rode all the way up the Champs Elysees and round (yes round) the Arc de T! Richly comic, and I didn't feel threatened at all - just "arm out" and look English!

Crossings wise - P and O every time. I tried Speedferries, and we were an hour and a half late leaving (hydraulic problem) had an awful crossing (rough sea) and then they cancelled the return entirely, and I had to find a return trip on P and O. Their T&C say they can do that, but it's still a pain. They did phone in advance to say so, rather than letting me get to the port. I went P and O yesterday, and it was very rough, but, being a much larger vessel, there was not much by way of trouble.

Hope this is of interest to some - I'm extremely bored at work today.....

O
France via Eurotunnel - patently
Well, I made it all the way there and all the way back!

Paris was fun. Especially when I realised that the big building ahead of me was the Arc de Triomphe (sp?) and the satnag was saying "At the roundabout ahead, take the ninth exit.." Only got hooted once, and that was for being not aggressive enough.

Aren't the motorways lovely! Plenty of space and an eighty-something limit in the dry. Funnily, I actually drove more slowly in the higher limit, even once I felt confident. A normal 90mph cruise seemed less worthwhile when half the "benefit" gained in return for the risk has gone. I just set the cruise for 130kph and waited for Paris/Calais. Only a few % of drivers exceeded 130kph, as opposed to the majority here who exceed 70mph. A lesson for the DoT somewhere there, methinks.

I've also re-discovered what lane discipline means! People move back in after overtaking. How strange.

I did get used to being on the right. After all, at first it was all motorway work so I just had to stay in the extreme right hand lane and overtake on the left. Been driving BMWs for years, so no problems there....

Anyway, a little adventure and great fun. Must try again sometime.
France via Eurotunnel - NowWheels
Paris was fun. Especially when I realised that the big
building ahead of me was the Arc de Triomphe (sp?) and
the satnag was saying "At the roundabout ahead, take the ninth
exit.." Only got hooted once, and that was for being
not aggressive enough.


It always sounds deeply scary, but as a teenager I did it on my pedal-bike in the rush-hour, and found it very manageable, although I did have to go around about ten times to wind my way through to the centre!
I did get used to being on the right. After
all, at first it was all motorway work so I just
had to stay in the extreme right hand lane and overtake
on the left. Been driving BMWs for years, so no
problems there....


Maybe they should have separate signs at the French ports for BMW drivers, saying "conduire a gauche", with a blue propellor background ...
France via Eurotunnel - Bromptonaut

Only afew % of drivers exceeded 130kph, as opposed to the majority
here who exceed 70mph. A lesson for the DoT somewhere
there, methinks.


The lesson for the DfT may be one that we won't welcome. Until last year 140-150 was commonplace. "Controles radar frequents" now means exactly that, no 10% plus 1mph margin and penalty payable on the spot.
France via Eurotunnel - patently
There were plenty of gendarmes cars by the side of the road, evidently looking for speeders. But, generally, drivers were disciplined and the average speed was distinctly less than here.

My analysis was that the potential extra 10mph to be gained was not enough to outweigh the risk of prosecution. Here, the 20-30mph extra that can be obtained is worth the risk. So whereas in the absence of any speed limit I might cruise at 95ish mph, in France I voluntarily cut this down to 130kph and was happy. Here, 70 in the dry is too much to ask, so (like many others) I drive as if there were no limit.

Now, when I drive as if there were no limit, I might do so at 85-95 depending on the conditions. Others seem to have a higher opinion of their abilities. Hence, a higher limit that is more likely to be obeyed actually results in a lower average speed.

True, another lesson that can be learned is that harsh enforcement works. Sadly, experience tells us which of the carrot and the stick the DfT would choose.
France via Eurotunnel - smokie
How on earth can it be worth the risk to do an extra 20 - 30 mph here? All you do is reach the next traffic jam a bit quicker.

I (used to) do 90 - 100 whenever poss but that was because I enjoyed doing it, not because it got me there quicker. Since starting IAM training I have been observing speed limits and although my mpg has considerably improved, my journey time hasn't changed much.

Back to topic, I LOVE driving on the continent and often go away on my own for a weekend to do just that. I remember the scary first time, and I still have "moments" when I forget to check the right way, but they are fewer these days. The lane discipline is something to behold. Instead of b***** mindedly slowing and blocking fast approaching cars before moving over, they will (generally) move over, sometimes into tiny spaces, as they realise that if the approaching car doesn't have to lose momentum it will take a brief second to pass.
France via Eurotunnel - NowWheels
How on earth can it be worth the risk to do
an extra 20 - 30 mph here?


'cos otherwise you'd be crusing at 70mph, which these days is comfortable in a common or garden secondhand supermini. So you might start wondering why you'd handed over £30K+ for your German überwündermötör which rides like they left the springs out

;-)
France via Eurotunnel - Happy Blue!
I love driving in France. Loads of space, calm drivers (in rural areas) so happy to keep to sensible speed limits and you get to see some lovely old french iron.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
France via Eurotunnel - PhilW
Yep, one of the great things about France is that the relatively uncrowded roads mean that you are rarely held up (OK, I have when roadworks between Calais and Dunkerque, and the Bordeaux prepherique is bad because of changing Pont d'Aquitaine from 2 to 3 lane motorway). This means that you can plan a journey and it usually takes the time you plan. As an example, a few years ago I took my (aged) father to see his old school pal in Besancon and on the way back he did not feel well. With 240 miles to go to Calais I said that we could do it in 3 hours (in my old BX) and avoid another night in France. You'll be lucky said he, but 3 hours later to the minute and driving at 80 mph all the way, we were there. Try doing that on M1/A1 from London to York (ish)Contrast to this weekend - surprise birthday visit to mother - in -law in the Wirral. 120 miles, say about 2 hours would you say? via A50, M6, M56 and M53. 3 and half hours later we arrived. Hold ups due to accident, lane closure on A50 (to protect the work force which turned out to be one man and wheelbarrow on opposite carriageway) and "sheer volume of traffic" on M6. No wonder people have to speed on the clear bits.
France via Eurotunnel - PhilW
PS patently - glad you enjoyed it and hope you stocked up on the wine and beer!!
France via Eurotunnel - Happy Blue!
The problem of course is that we have a population about 10% less than France with a land area of less than half. QED - we have greater density of population especially in SE, NW, Midlands and Scotland Central Belt, so always see traffic jams becuase more cars in less space.

Maybe we should all move to France and vote for a more pro UK/USA government!
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
France via Eurotunnel - NowWheels
Maybe we should all move to France and vote for a more pro UK/USA government!


Why?

So that France can end up overcrowded and run down like the UK, with dinosaur trains instead of TGVs and crumbling, clogged motorways instead of those nice autoroutes?

The things you like about France seem to be precisely that it's not like the UK.
France via Eurotunnel - Happy Blue!
No, so we can enjoy their benefits whilst still living in the type of place that puts moral duty ahead of self interest.
--
Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
France via Eurotunnel - smokie
I usually investigate driving over flying as I reckon door to door is often quicker than a plane, certainly in local Europe, when you take into account check in times, transfers to/from airports and flight delays. Plus you can have your choice of music and you have the convenience of taking as much as you like, bringing back even more and of course having your own car with you for the duration.

Mind you, using the laptop while driving is sometimes tricky!
France via Eurotunnel - patently
How on earth can it be worth the risk to do
an extra 20 - 30 mph here? All you do is
reach the next traffic jam a bit quicker.


Depends on the journey.

On the M25 in peak time, I would agree with you. But my daily drive is along the M40, which is usually quite clear. So the extra speed doesn't hurry me to the next jam more quickly, it gets me home to spend more time with the little patentlies before they go to bed.

Well worth it, IMHO.