Hi All,
I bought a Honda Prelude this sunday just gone (5th).
It was advertised (trade ad) in Auto Trader as 'excellent condition throughout' and had done 95,000 miles. Upon inspection of the vehicle all seemed to be in good order as far as I could tell.
I pointed out some respray work on the right hand side of the car and was told that was because someone had keyed it - sounded plausible to me, so I went ahead with the purchase and drove the car away.
About half a mile down the road it suddenly registered that the odometer reading of the car did not correspond to the value advertised - in fact it read just over 105,000 miles. Call me stupid maybe, but I hadn't noticed this when I had looked the car over as I took it as read that the car would match the detail advertised.
Drove back to the dealer less than 10 mins after driving the car away but I found it to be locked and closed with no-one about. (it *was* a Sunday evening at 6 'o clock - maybe he wanted to get home to his dinner.)
Called the dealer's mobile as soon as I arrived home (maybe 30 mins later?) and told the woman on the phone about the mileage discrepancy - I was told there was 'nothing they could do about it'.
Later that evening looked through the paperwork that came with the car + found an invoice detailing some insurance work. Turns out the car was resprayed because of accident damage, not because it was keyed.
Telephoned the dealer on Monday (6th) and pointed out both the mileage discrepancy and the fact that he had mislead me as to the reason for the respray and told him I would like to bring the car back. He became very belligerent and told me that it was down to me to check the mileage before I drove the car away and that I was obviously happy with the car otherwise why did I buy it? He said he wouldn't take the car back and that if I wanted to take it further I should take him to court and that he would 'see me in court'.
What are my rights as a consumer? Have I been 'conned' or is it my own stupid fault? How can I go about getting a refund?
To recap :
1995 M reg Honda Prelude 2.0 Silver
Price Paid £2400
- the mileage was advertised as 95,000 - it has actually done 105,000
- I was told the respray was due to the car having been keyed - I now have reason to believe this was actually because of accident damage.
- I can now smell an oil/petrol smell - particularly at low speeds - I didn't smell this when I test drove the car
- Receipts - I have a receipt for the Debit card part of the transaction (£1500), but even though I asked them to they wouldn't put the cash on the receipt (£900) - I have since written the £900 on my receipt, but of course it won't be on their duplicate copy.
Any advice gratefully received....
Thanks
Dan
|
You're going to need advice on this one, from someone who is an expert.
But, for what its worth...
>>- the mileage was advertised as 95,000 - it has actually done 105,000
Annoying. But if can say it was a mistake and that it was displayed in front fof you, I don't think you're going to get very far. Probably he advertised lower intending to attract people relying on them not being put off once they'd looked the car over. I guess he just didn't see fit to mention it when you didn't comment.
>>- I was told the respray was due to the car having been keyed - I now have reason to believe this was actually because of accident damage.
Could he have reasonably known that ? Are you sure the insurance damage wasn't the keying and was an accident ? Either way, does it make any material difference to the value of the car given that it was repaired properly, and given that he hadn't hidden that a repair had been done, merely the reason for it. And if he says that was what he was told and that he had no reason to believe otherwise, what can you prove ?
>>- I can now smell an oil/petrol smell - particularly at low speeds - I didn't smell this when I test drove the car
Now that depends. If there is a problem, then you can definitely do something with this. If its just a smell, well there really isn't anything to say or be done.
>>- Receipts - I have a receipt for the Debit card part of the transaction (£1500), but even though I asked them to they wouldn't put the cash on the receipt
Pretty naive of you. I wouldn't hand over any money without a recepit. However, not illegal on their part.
I'm afraid I think you're on a sticky wicket.
Looking at it the other way, what is it that bothers you so much ?
Presumably the car is reasonably well presented or you wouldn't have been happy with it. The mileage isn't as important as the general condition. The damage has presumably been repaired well. And if the smell is nothing serious.......
|
Dan, Mark gives very valid responses. I see you only joined the Backroom today but, unfortunately, your type of query has came up time and time again.
I think the clincher is, as Mark says, what is it that bothers you so much?
Yes, it can be a pain feeling that you had been mislead but what difference does 10,000 miles mean at that stage? The accident damage, as long as its not a botched write-off repair or whatever then it shouldn't be an issue. In fact, depending on what work was done, it could be beneficial eg you might have a brand new wing on it rather than an old one hiding some rust?
The smell of petrol, you need to find out about. Could be something serious, or could maybe be a hole somewhere letting the smell in?
Previous experience has shown that people can be stressed out with this sort of query, as long as the petrol thing turns out to be ok, then just enjoy your car. You have made some pretty basic mistakes when purchasing it, but these can't be changed now so don't stress yourself with it or you will end up hating the car!
|
|
|
The mileage "mistake" is a common trick.
This has been presented to me twice. The first time I simply rejected the car on that and other grounds.
The second time I just haggled the price down hard. There was nothing wrong with the vehicle apart from that. The guy had no option but to accept. To beat him at his own game I convinced him the Rad may be leaking (it was raining at the time and the "steam" was simply evaporating rain water. I think he was pleased to get shot of it!
I have to say I am usually reluctant to answer the trade classifieds in Autotrader. I would prefer to deal with a private buyer, if they just asked reasonable money for the vehicle.
I think Mark's right though, you have seen the odemeter and the reasons for the paint were only the dealer's opinions about the vehicle.
However, I would suggest you see Trading Standards. They may see some sense in your writing to the individual to seek financial recompense, even if the guy is not prepared to take the car back, it may be worth a few quid to him to get you off his case.
Hugo
|
I would support Hugo on the suggestion to contact Trading Standards. They may be able to take action against the dealer regarding the mileage and/or false advertising. If nothing else, the fact that you've caused the dealer some aggravation might be emotional compensation for being "conned".
Good luck.
|
You may want to ring the chap back and mention HM Customs and Excise. By misrepresenting the value of the car on the receipt he's done HMC&E out of £130 and some change. One thing you learn in business is that you DON'T mess with the Excise boys.
He'll squinny and squirm and may not back down. Whether he backs down or not, I'd shop him to HMC&E anyway. Devious little git.
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
|
Man, i feel for you.
its this is the world we live in, and devious people, who want to earn fast bucks.
just make sure the petrol smell isnt the tank or pipes leaking.
But when you buy over 2 years old, more than 30K miles, you will always find little things.
main points are, are you happy with the motor?
and last but not least, think of the experience as a learning curve.
i know i have lost out big time on lots of cars.
but chill, you cant take it with you ;-)
|
You are unhappy because
- You believe the car's odometer reading is correct
- The car's history as provided by the dealer which presumably was available before purchase indicates it had a insurance repair at some time.
Am I missing something ?
|
You do not say what MoT came with the vehicle. I would hope that at this sort of price you would be getting a full 12 months. I doubt whether at this price it is worth spending on a full independent inspection unless you have any very serious concerns. However if you are going to go back with some minor problems it may be worth investing 30 quid in a new Mot. Make sure that the you get any written advisory comments as well as a verbal report from whoever does the inspection, even if it does pass on everything.
DO NOT use the same garage who issued the current MoT particularly if it is fairly new.
Let us know what happens.
pmh (was peter)
|
I think the important things have been mentioned here.You must find out where the smell is coming from for safety issues. I would recommend getting the car checked over thoroughly by someone who knows what they are doing, firstly to sort out the smell and also to check that this accident damage isn't compromising the vehicles safety.
Like someone said earlier any car over 2 years and 30k will always have small problems-sometimes big ones. Just get the car checked and chalk it down to experience.
|
Just wanted to say thanks very much to all who posted replies to my original msg. I mentioned the VAT man to the trader and it was surprising how he suddenly became very worried and very upset with me...!! He asked me to bring the car back, which I did, but by the time I arrived he had obviously had time to collect his thoughts and refused to do anything for me. Oh, except for giving me a totally new invoice which *did* include the cash part of the sale (suprise surprise) - So, the upshot is, I've had to keep the car, so I'll just swallow that, but I have a feeling I might still be having a word to HMC&E after all, I now have two different invoices from him for two different values.... Not sure how he could explain that one....
Cheers!
Dan.
|
|
Thanks for reporting back Dan. Funny how people turn green when VAT gets mentioned.....
|
Whenever I have trouble with a garage (always mechanics, as I've never bought a car from a dealer) I report it to Trading Standards. They do nothing if they get a single complaint, so I don't feel guilty getting the guy into trouble if it really was just a one-off. But if they start getting a few complains coming in about the same place, they might think about investigating.
What T.S. can actually do is another matter - I don't think they have much clout and the motor industry is notorious for having a large number of crooked people. (And lots of good, honest ones too, but still too many rip-off merchants.)
-M.
|
|
|
