HJ has propounded a number of times the benefits of leaving the car's first oil change up to (I think he said) maybe 12,000 miles in the interests of creating sufficient wear to allow the engine to bed in properly.
Last October I bought a new Ford and after its first 1000 km checkup decided to follow HJ's advice. So I turned the car in yesterday after 15,000 something km only to get a (very polite but nonetheless very disapproving) scolding from the Ford tech.
He referred me to the handbook, (yeah I know I never read them), which says a full service should carried out every 5,000 km (say 3,000 miles). I realise I live where traffic conditions mean spending a lot of time in stop start traffic, however high ambient temperatures year round (23 - 35 C) mean the car warms up very fast even on a short-ish trip, so I find it hard to believe short trips would be much of a problem. Moreover when I go into the city I usually give it a blast down the expressway.
Ford use Shell semi-synth oil here. I would have thought surely these service intervals were unnecessarily short given the above and the durability of modern engine oils. The immediate cynical reaction is to think that it's just another money spinner. If a modern car can't manage more than 5,000 km without a service......
Opinions on a postcard please and thanks in advance.
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I'd agree 5,000KM is a pretty short distance for a service. What colour was the oil?. SHMBO bought a Focus a couple of years ago, did 5,000 miles in the first year and the oil was still amber, even thought she did lots of very (<2 mile)short trips.
Contrast that 5KM with Audi extended service intervals, the optimum has to be in between somewhere. I can't see you done any damage.
Nice thing about modern cars is, they don't (usually) need anything done for ages. Spanners just sit the box, and you have to try and remember what tools you have. Lovely.
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>>Contrast that 5KM with Audi extended service intervals>>
I presume Audi has similar service intervals to my VW Bora, therefore it will be a "fixed" interval of approximately 10,000 miles for oil and filter changes or every 12 months or, using LongLife oils, until the service indicator used in variable mode indicates the service is required (mileage much higher but varies).
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One luxury car maker (not saying which!) did an experiment with one vehicle in the company pool. They simply didn't change its oil at all. When the engine was stripped down at the end of its stay it was found to have suffered no ill effects.
I rarely changed the oil on any of my cars over the years until we got a diesel car, on which I change the oil and filter at the recommended intervals. I understand this is vitally important with diesels.
Cheers, SS
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I've heard a couple of stories abut oil changes, and I'd love to get more details on both:
Story 1: Some cars in the US have 100,000 mile service intervals.
Story 2: Honda have claimed that they could easily make a car that would do 100,000 miles between oil changes, but they choose not to as it would reduce revenue for their dealers.
Anyone know if either of these are true?
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I've heard a couple of stories abut oil changes, and I'd love to get more details on both: Story 1: Some cars in the US have 100,000 mile service intervals.
Anyone know if true?
I think this is the confusion of the 100K tune-up:
I.E. it still needs routine oil and filter, etc.
See
www.parttrackers.com/library/1/24/50/
for something which might relate to the issue.
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AJH
That's right - the 100k service was heavily advertised for, I believe, the Cadillac 'Northstar' engine, but it most certainly wasn't the oil change interval. Most US cars have relatively frequent engine oil change intervals (well under 10k), despite the less stressful driving conditions compared to Europe. The Americans are quite happy to do this - usually using the excellent 'quick-lube' outlets that are everywhere. They seem to understand that engine oil is the only thing keeping the working components apart and doesn't last forever. Equally they seem to be unaware of the idea of six-figure mileages being any sort of problem for an engine. Some connection perhaps?
JS
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>>Story 1: Some cars in the US have 100,000 mile service intervals.
My Pontiac had 100,000 mile services but 6,000 mile oil & filter changes.
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One thing I noticed from my Civic's service book is that oil changes are recommended at 4,500 intervals (as opposed to the usual 12,500 miles) if the car is regularly used in a variety of what they term "extreme" conditions - one of which is regular use in temperatures exceeding 32 C. Perhaps the same thinking is behind Growler's Ford dealer's approach, although I'm not sure what the technical reason would be.
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I saw a cavalier (old style) that had done 50,000 miles with just one oil change - cam destroyed, tappet adjusters worn to nothing. I don't know what everything else was like as only the rocker cover was off when I saw it.
That americam car was a GM something and yes, 100,000 mile service interval. BUT like some european cars, it computes use and says an oil change required. There is an argument that an oil+filter isn't a service as such - similar to putting water, petrol etc into the car.
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I presume that it is a petrol engine Growler has in his Ford? If it is then in those ambient temperatures 5,000 km is very short indeed. In the driving conditions described i would have no problem leaving the oil 8- 12k miles.
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Honda once stated that they had successfully built a 'sealed for life' engine that required no attention, but as said above, they would lose the revenue from servicing customers cars. I personally wouldnt change oil at less than 6k intervals.
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Oil was still amber-tinged after the 15,000 km. Definitely not black.
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Definitely not black after 10000km, eh? New car or not, that would make me suspicious. But then, Ford put the wrong lubricant in the LSD of my Capri on first manufacture.
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I suppose what came out at 15,000 would have been the original factory fill.
Yes perhaps it is the climatic issue which is behind the apparently short service intervals. Summertimes here are regularly up in the late 30's and often over 40 C. The Ford guy's training when I asked was classic what I call "Call Centre Syndrome", i.e. "I haven't a clue actually, I'm just parrotting from the manual and have a nice day. Sir".
I think I'll ask my mechanic Ferdie down the road his opinion. Never finished high school but was born with grease under his fingernails and oil in his veins.
Nonetheless, given the claims for modern oils rank right up there alongside the panoply of Biblical miracles, I would have thought 5,000km as a service interval wasn't much of a vote of confidence.
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I should have thought that the climate in G's part of the world is very hard on cars. Poor quality petrol, perhaps? Lots of dust - which will get into the engine no matter what?
The W123 Mercs have a 5k service interval. Leave it any longer, and the oil pressure begins to drop appreciably. I guess that is a feature of the paper filter inserts - but perhaps somebody else would know?
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Mapmaker
Loss of oil presure is a sign that the oil has lost its viscosity, and shouldn't be ignored. It won't be the filter - a blocked filter, which is on the discharge side of the pump, would actually increase oil pressure. In practice though, to prevent oil starvation, filters have a relief valve which opens should the differential presure across the filter (normally very low) increases - indicating blockage. It's rare these days for engines and oils to produce sufficient debris to block filters. Going back a while though, some A series units had a warning light on the dash which showed that the filter by-pass had operated. Those were the days!
JS
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The oil in my petrol touran is fairly dark at 7k (miles). I assume the detergents are just pretty good as it is still very "runny", but I'm suprised how dirty its got. Never the less, I'll run it till 10k (as HJ recommends), and then it will be 5k at a time. Mind you at £80 a shot, it won't be at a dealer every 5k!
Joe
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Maybe the factory fill was "Initial fill" lubricant?
I think it contains a lot less of certain anti-wear additives....zincdialkyldithiophosphate?
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i would bet that the 3000 mile change instructions are from an american based handbook.
example quotes from a previous discussion of this subject :
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=15148&...e
by dr. aprilia: "The US lubricant companies have managed to keep the '3000-mile' oil change myth alive and well. A car running in (more severe) European conditions gets a 20k change interval - in the US it gets 3k ! "
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=9124&v...f
by jbj: "I see that someone (in Saturday's Telegraph) has had the temerity to challenge HJ's advice about the frequency of oil changes (a braver man than me, evidently!).
The fool goes on to suggest that his Skoda Octavia is fine with its oil changes at 20,000 miles."
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Interesting responses, thanks all. I will go with Ford for now as I have 14 months' warranty still to go. After that I will take my Swiss friend Raof's advice -- he runs an independent garage -- and he says 10,000km between changes in this country are perfectly fine.
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