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Still looking for a newer car , and came across a Volvo S60 bi-fuel (LPG) . Its a 2002 model and to be honest it is very nice . But my big worry is (please excuse me) because its a 2.4 5 cylinder no turbo , will it still cost as much to run , as say a diesel Vectra ? The car will be doing a lot of town work .
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Where are you based?
find out how much your local supply of LPG is.
If you are in Cardiff for example you will get it for 28p in Sully, 30 p in Barry and hopefully 30p in Cardiff, I haven't checked recently but BP cardiff is at 32.5 so that probably means the supply round the corner is still at 30p.
fuel type U / LPG
Fuel Capacity 29/50
Combined Fuel Consumption 31.4/24.8 mpg
Those are figures I picked up, I assume that it has a fairly small petrol tank 29 litres, and it has a fairly small LPG tank more later on this.
It appears to do 31 mpg copmbined on petrol and 25mpg on LPG combined, on another site they gave a figure of 22.2mpg urban for LPG so that kinda all makes sense.
So we can assume that you will get 22mpg urban on LPG, that sounds brilliant to me so I am a bit dubious (if you can get that you're going to be happy) I would expect about 18mpg.
Now you can work out the cost per mile or per 100 miles.
100 miles @ 22mpg LPG @ 30p/litre = 6.19 (pounds)
100 miles @ 18mpg LPG @ 30p = 7.57 (pounds)
Deisel Vectra mpg urban 28.5 (3.0li)I picked the 3.0li because I couldn'tfind any figures for other vectra engines and the performance of the 3.0li would be similar to the performance ofthe Volvo.
100 miles @ 28.5mpg @ 82p litre = 13.07 (pounds)
So now you can see that the LPG car will be much cheaper to run.
**but** these are things to think about.
The LPG tank if 50 litres will hold, approx 42litres of LPG. This will take you @ 22mpg 203miles, @18mpg 166miles.
the petrol will take you an extra 178miles.
Total 344miles costing 31 pounds
To make it economical you have to fill up your LPG regularly at least every 160 miles.
The diesel will take you 382miles costing 50 pounds.
Add to this the diesel would hopefully be more reliable & last longer. But if the LPG is done properly there shouldn't be any problems.
One final factor is the price you're paying. If the LPG car is going to cost more than your chosen diesel, work out how long it will take you to recoup that money. e.g. 1000pounds more then 16,000 miles before you are making a "profit".
But then the Volvo would be a nicer car too.
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*When I had an LPG car, I made sure of buying an estate, and putting a large tank in 120 litres which held 113litres LPG. It took me about
340miles Urban
and 600miles motorway
before filling up again.
If I had the same car again - Omega Estate - I'd be tempted to put in a 140litre tank (because it would fit and only 4cm extra diameter).
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The car in question is allready for LPG as it was made specifially for lpg/unleaded petrol . Its a Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel . You cant see any gas tank in the boot , and when you open the fuel filler flap there are 2 options , normal unleaded petrol or LPG filler . I am in fact very near Cardiff .One other question though..............when filling up with LPG does it automatically stop when full , like when you fill up with petrol , as im a little scared as to overfilling as will it explode ?
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IMHO LPG is not quite a economical as Diesel, especially now that the government seem interested in increasing the tax on it.
LPG tanks filler valves automatically shut off when 80% capacity is reached (to allow for thermal expansion of the liquid).
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You cant see any gas tank in the boot , and when you open the fuel filler flap there are 2 options , normal unleaded petrol or LPG filler
That sounds much neater than the add-on LPG conversions. Does it have the same bootspace as other versions, or is it just covered up after being built-in?
Anyone know if there are other cars with built-in LPG wotsits?
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The Vauxhall site has a fair amount of information at
vauxhall.co.uk/dualfuel/index.jhtml
From my rough calculations when I looked at it the relative costs of fuel are
Petrol 150
Diesel 120
LPG 100
A bit like diesel, but better. They are also exempt from congestion charges
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relative costs of fuel are
Relative costs of fuel are CURRENTLY.
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Of course, and if you can guarantee what the price of each is on any day in the future then I will happily make alot of money!!
As you will be aware from the 2004 budget the duty on LPG will increase by 1p a litre over and above that on ULSP in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Meaning that the relative price of 2007 LPG will be around 105.
Not too much to get excited about.:-)
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You also need to take into account the extra capital cost of the LPG installation, plus its servicing costs (annual safety check, draining vapouriser and possible change of LPG filter - where fitted) this will be in addition to your regular service costs. There is also normally loss of some luggage capacity.
Big argument in favour of LPG is the lower emissions.
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From my rough calculations when I looked at it the relative costs of fuel are Petrol 150 Diesel 120 LPG 100 A bit like diesel, but better. They are also exempt from congestion charges
Hxj,
If you're saying that after you have factored in mpg that diesel works out at 20% more, then that would have to be very expensive LPG with unfavourable mpg figure.
My calculations for that Volvo are accurate and even if you don't accept the manufacturers claim of 22mpg and take my realistic 18 mpg, the Volvo will still run 100 miles on 7.57
For this Volvo in SOuth Wales the relative figures are as follows: using 18mpg a highly realistic figure, but I bet the Volvo will do better.
LPG 100 (7.57)
Diesel 173 (13.07)
OK calculation worst scenario: using BP's national average 38p
100miles @ 38p @ 18mpg = 9.59
diesel 100 miles @ 82 @ 28.5 = 13.07
relative values:
LPG = 100
Deisel = 136
diesel 36 % more expensive than LPG
Lets factor in some proposed increases after 5 years:
100 @ 43p @ 18mpg = 10.85
100 @ 87p @ 28.5mpg = 13.87
LPg = 100
Deisel = 128
diesel 28% more expensive than LPG after 5 years and this is using national average for LPG not the low price available in South Wales.
Even in the worst case scenarios diesel is 30% more than LPG.
no one can predict the future but LPG is likely always to be much cheaper. You have to be aware of the extra cost the LPG kit is going to cost you, and your local LPG supply price. Work it all out and see if it is better to go for gas.
Some people will be better off inside 3 months, just depends how many miles one does.
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The car in question is allready for LPG as it was made specifially for lpg/unleaded petrol . Its a Volvo S60 Bi-Fuel . You cant see any gas tank in the boot , and when you open the fuel filler flap there are 2 options , normal unleaded petrol or LPG filler . I am in fact very near Cardiff .One other question though..............when filling up with LPG does it automatically stop when full , like when you fill up with petrol , as im a little scared as to overfilling as will it explode ?
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Welshy,
Is the boot smaller, and the LPG tank is hiding behind a partition at the back? If not, they have probably put it under the car. Sounds like a nice job. Yeah I know it's allready converted, but unless you get a cracking good deal on it there will be a higher purchase price because it is Bi fuel. Even if the price of LPG goes up by 1p a year for the next 5 years as someone suggested, LPG would still only cost 35p - Definately something to be pleased about.
When filling the pump stops automatically, you can if you wish keep the button pressed and it will keep filling - there's no danger because:
1. You will immediately drive the car thus using 1 litre every 20 miles or so.
2. If the pressure in the tank gets too great there is an overflow safety vent.
p.s. my figures are 99% (rounding up errors) accurate for the Cardiff area. Prices have been this cheap here for 5 years now. When BP Hadfield RD Cardiff first started selling LPG about 2 years ago they had their traditional nationwide price of 38p they soon realised they weren't going to sell any at that price in Cardiff, hence, they are now 32.5p
I am away on hoiday for 2 weeks now.
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Just being near Cardiff isn't good enough. You have to regularly pass through Cardiff or Barry to get the good prices. There may be other areas around that are cheap, I don't know, but I don't think they will be as cheap.
There is one in Abercynon which is cheap , I don't know the price but they are the same company as the one in Sully/Barry.
You *must* find out your local supply price and do the calculations, then it's up to you.
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The figures that I used assumed for an OEM LPG Vx Zafira
Petrol 75p/l 40mpg net additional capital cost nil
diesel 75p/l 50mpg net additional capital cost nil
LPG 38p/l 35mpg net additional capital cost 450 (half of cost of conversion net of powershift grant)
I travel all over the place and do not always know where the cheap gas is, nor frankly do I have time to chase it.
The servicing costs for such a car are virtually identical to a pure petrol car.
I'm sure taht my figures are a bit out but they demonstrate that LPG can be a good deal.
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