Evening!
Been doing a bit of research into this, since being driven into has recently made me a little bit more well off. Thought it might be fitting (although the crash was in no way my fault, before you start) to spend a small amount of it in getting my advanced driving licence.
It looks like if I pay £65 to join the cardigan clad, bovril drinking Institute of Advanced Motorists, the fees are all inclusive for the under 25 membership and the test.
Questions though...
1. What is Sparkle?! I guess it's all about making progress, driving at the speed limit when the road is clear etc etc. My problem with this is that I'm a bit of a Sunday driver when it comes to country lanes, where the speed limit may *be* 60mph, but I'm damn well not going to drive at 60mph because country lanes scare me! Maybe that doesn't make any sense?
2. Observed Drives? I don't take criticism well at all, so just wondered what these were like and what actually qualifies someone to be an observer?
3. If I pay the £65 and pass, am I likely to get this amount back in the shape of an insurance discount for having the advanced licence, or is there actually very little point in having it in the eyes of the insurance?
4. How long does it all take, on average, and is it case of training to pass the test or training to be a better driver?
Thank you!
|
Forget about getting your money back through insurance discounts, what's more important is the improvement in driving standards. I've never joined the IAM, but did share a lift to work, each of us driving alternate weeks, for a couple of years with an IAM observer. It was pointless joining when I had so much of a captive audience.
Once you improve your driving you'll get more enjoyment out it, you'l know longer get scared of country lanes, in fact you'll learn to enjoy them as things of beauty. I'm scared that there are people out there that are scared of driving in certain situations, for a nervous driver is a potential dangerous driver.
Go for it, its not a lot of money, and you'll learn plenty of techniques that will help you enjoy driving more and make you more likely to avoid your next accident.
--
I read often, only post occasionally
|
|
|
The advanced driving test is well worth preparing for and taking. It will show you how to drive more smoothly and economically, putting less wear and tear on your car and probably improving fuel consumption. That alone will make it pay for itself in the long run.
Some insurance companies offer a discount on the premium, but not all. The AA offer a 10% discount to IAM members. What it will cost in tuition is dependant on how quickly you reach the standard, so it is impossible to generalise on the number of lessons you will need. I believe joining a local IAM group will get you tuition from one of their observers for no more than a nominal fee. All IAM observers are current or retired Class 1 police drivers.
Leaving cost aside, however, it may well save your life one day. The tecniques for recognising and dealing with hazards are far in advance of what you learned when preparing for your L-test, and you will probably have picked up some bad habits since then, anyway. Worth doing, I gaurantee you will enjoy it and it probably won't cost you more than a moderate stereo system for your car at most. The stereo will wear out, the skills you will learn that meke you a better driver will last you for life.
|
|
|
i passed my advanced driving test at 20 through the IAM, and actually became an observer. Quite a few took getting driving advice from a 21 year old very poorly.
Can't remember sparkle. But it was well worth it for me, i used to charge around and i learnt how to anticipate and drive much more smoothly. Approach it with an open mind and a willingness to learn, and you won't go far wrong.
As regards your final point, you are definitely training to be a better driver, not to pass the test: not all my observees (?) passed, but apart from the ones with the age problem, all reported feeling much more confident.
|
|
|
|
I strongly recommend taking IAM lessons. The test is less important IMO. Learning to do a 3 point turn without bumping the kerb is not that important. But learning about car control, and how to drive so as to protect yourself against some of the dangerous morons out there (a minority) is well worth it. It will encourage you to think about how you can drive to help others, help yourself and avoid getting in the way of the dangerous morons. I did not take the test but I did take ~8 lessons. I have found that my driving has improved markedly. I now find that I often anticipate dangerous manouevres by others and hence avoid getting into unpleasant situations.
|
Pologirl, I agree with all the above responses. I passed the test last year (at 26). As a guide it took me 11 runs (60-90mins each) before I ready. You have to go into it willing to learn and take critism - otherwise what is the point of doing it? You will benefit greatly, the key is observation and anticipation I can think of lots or situations this year where I've kept myself out of danger, reacting even before some situations occured. Its so rewarding when motorcyclists wave in appreciation because your aware of them in traffic queues etc or you get a thumbs up from an ambulance crew for sensibly getting out of their way in plenty of time.
With regard to your comment of nerviousness on country roads, can I suggest you read 'Roadcraft' & the section on Limit Points to gauge the appropraite speed on bends - I have found this to be useful. Remember on single track lanes you need to allow for double (or more) the braking distance - one for you and one for the approaching car!
Go for it...
(Tom - I believe your comment re serving or retired Class 1 police drivers applies to the IAM examiners. Any IAM member can become an observer (with additional training)).
|
I passed my test last month at the age of 20. I definately think it was worthwhile and would recommend it to anyone.
Insurance discounts from it are worthless though. As far as Norwich Union are concerned, they'd rather I had Pass Plus - becuase putting that I have Pass Plus gives a 48% discount, whereas IAM gives nothing.
Pathetic really, but I didnt do it for insurance purposes.
|
|
|
|
Do it.
|
It'll cost you more, but why not do an LGV (large goods vehicle) or PCV (bus) driving course and test. When I did my HGV (as it was called then)the word was that the standard was as high as the Advanced Motorists', plus it entitled one to drive an additional class of vehicle.
You need to be 21+ and pass a basic medical (heart, eyesight, diabetes etc.) before you can get an LGV or PCV provisional licence.
Otherwise, you could do worse than to read and inwardly digest the latest edition of 'Roadcraft - the Police Driving Manual' and other government publications on driving.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
|
I would say that being a slightly nervous driver is a good thing compared to a driver who has too little awareness of danger. I'm always conscious of being a split second away from danger and that's kept me safe thus far for 32 years in a wide assorment of of vehicles (touches wooden widow ledge...lol!).
Nobody would expect you to do 60mph on country lanes. The rule of thumb is to drive so you can always stop within the distance you can see to be clear. On a winding single car-width lane with stone walls either side that speed might only be 20-25 mph.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
|
Thanks folks. Without wanting to sound big headed, I'm better than average at spotting and anticipating hazards than I was two years ago - being driven into by a couple of idiots makes you a lot more wary about what's going on around you, but probably isn't the best training ground!
I'll keep thinking about it, but am disappointed it makes no difference to my insurance.
Thanks again.
|
PoloGirl,
I'd do it. It doesnt make you a cardigan wearing slow driver, in fact, I have learnt to be quicker and safer on country roads due to better observation.
I don't get any discount on my insurance as a result, but you will always have access to the institutes insurer (AON I think) who offer discounts.
It will make you a safer driver and reduce your chance of an accident. Why not ring them and say you are unsure, any chance of a taster lesson?
|
My son passed his IAM test at an early age - already a mad keen driver, it took six two-hour sessions with an ex-police driver before he actually took the test.
His sense of achievement was a joy to behold...
When I took driving lessons some 40 years ago, I had just eight one-hour lessons with a former police driver turned instructor and was delighted to pass first time; what's more, it was in a completely different car as the instructor's was unfortunately not available.
|
I passed my driving test at 17 years old and subsequently completed the pass plus course. This in my opinion was not enough to make me a safe driver. Shortly after this, I joined the IAM and had one observer who said my driving was fine and in general I learnt very little. So, after a few observations I decided to get myself a new observer which I did not regret. At present, I have an observer who is very critical and have learnt many new skills which my other observer did not touch on.
In general, the observer has told me that my driving is good, although I am very careful in my approach which is of course a good sign but can cause problems. However, I do not look far ahead enough, I fail to use the mirrors enough especially on carriageways, my positioning on country routes needs improvement and I have a tendency to carry out many tasks at the same time. My other observer did not mention any of these flaws.
My observer says that I will only need six observations to pass. Although I am keen to pass the test, I feel that once I reach test standard my level of driving will be what I would say to be safe. Furthermore, with holding the IAM certificate, I will have a badge on my car that will show other IAM drivers that I am capable and the police are less likely to stop me (in theory anyway). And, with a lesser likelihood of having an accident, my insurance will be cheaper in the long run.
The IAM are also holding a Better Driving course which only costs £5 for those that are less than 25 years old. It includes classroom sessions and an observed drive with an observer. This also includes a drive in a police car with a class 1 police driver. And for £35, one can take part with a skid pan course in Goodwood.
This is a complete bargain, and is being co-ordinated by the Worthing IAM. In my humble opinion, anyone who looses their licence or has any speeding offences on their licence should be made to complete observations and pass the IAM test. Should they fail to do this within a certain time frame, they would have their licence removed or perhaps the points would stay on their licence for life. And those who drive as a profession, for example couriers, taxi drivers and so on, it should be made compulsory to complete the IAM course. This would lead to fewer accidents, and a better level of driving.
|
>>Although I am keen to pass the test, I feel that once I reach test standard my level of driving will be what I would say to be safe.>>
But, of course, you never stop learning - there's always at least once a week when you come across a situation which has never been experienced previously.
Re skid pans - this is something that every driver should have access to at minimal cost and, preferably, at least once a year. Drivers will learn far more in a half-hour session than many hours on the roads where, of course, it would almost certainly be too dangerous or unsafe to practice.
Another good way to learn about road surfaces etc is by starting using the roads on two wheels rather than four - motor-cyclists (I also include cyclists) have a far quicker grasp of the effects of quickly changing road conditions and weather than motorists who have never been on two wheels.
|
|
|
|
|
If you mean the training - yes. And when you consider what you spend on motoring, and that it could save your life, it's peanuts.
|
I've done a few driving courses in my time, including police driver training (paid for an organised by a former industry employer) and various short courses related to using proving grounds and ride & handling tracks (which I have had to do in the course of my work). All of these are useful, and its all extra experience.
I've been in the IAM for a few years and found them a reasonable bunch. The IAM is a charity and kind of a 'club'. They have their own particular preferences for the way in which things are done (published in an A4 size book called, IIRC, 'Pass the Advanced Driving Test'). Incidentally, when you pass, all you get is a certificate (not a 'license') and I have never managed to secure an insurance discount on the strength of it!
The observers are all ordinary members (whose driving has been checked, oibviously) and they vary a bit in their approach. Some are really good and some are a bit odd and of the 'anorak' type. You will find that you can attend monthly meetings with talks from local traffic coppers etc.
You don't get 'lessons' as such, just comments and a 'tick sheet' at the end which itemises areas for improvement. You then need to polish these up during your everyday driving.
At the end of the day they are trying to get you to be a more thinking and observant driver. I don't agree with everything the IAM advocate (i.e. the gears/brakes debate on slowing down - I've driven trucks and always like to be in the right gear -none of this 'slow on the brakes only then select gear') but overall they do a great job.
RoSPA also run courses, which I was once told are more demanding than IAM - but never had any details.
|
|
|
I'd really agree with Staurt's point about starting on two wheels. Sustained cycle usage breeds a very acute sense of hazard perception.
I hope this won't come across as a jab, but I would hope that being involved in a few accidents would be a powerful spur to go for IAM training. I have been a passenger in two potentially very nasty near-misses in the last few years, where an accident was avoided only because my driver had read the road exceptionally well.
For myself, I plan to do IAM training as soon as I get wheels again. I reckon I've a lot more to learn, and I wouldn't care whether it would save me anything on insurance -- safety alone would be a good enough reason.
The other reason I'd go for it is confidence. Having lost my nerve for a few years about driving on motorways, I still reckon I could benefit from being more confident -- I do sometimes wonder if I might lose my nerve all over again, and I hope that good training might boost my confidence enough that I'd not have to worry about losing it again.
|
Having lost my nerve for a few years about driving on motorways,
Sorry to hear that, NW. Best wishes for when you try again, whenever you decide to.
|
|
|
|
|
I have just started the IAM course - one initial observed run to assess my driving and two training runs. I am enjoying every minute of it - even the optional commentary. Interesting that the bumper huggers in the town areas are soon left behind on the open road :-)
The driving has gone a bit haywire but I am starting to get things together even after such a short time. I have been driving for 14 years so have a few bad habits to iron out. However, the observer does not criticise your driving - he (or she) will point out ways to do things better and be more in control of the car. One thing I have found odd is driving in 3rd in a 30mph limit, 4th in 40mph limit - it does help keep the speed down, though
The amount of time to be ready for the test will vary - my observer reckons that another four runs and I should be ready for the mock test and then another three or four before the actual thing. This very much depends on whether you need to be taught to drive again!
Try ring the local IAM group and ask if they would do an assessment run before commiting to the course.
|
|
Bear in mind that you may have to wait a while before you can actually take part in the programme due to growing popularity- i've been on a waiting list for 5 months!
|
|
Looking at some of her previous postings, I think that PoloGirl is based somewhere in the Midlands? I am not too far away down in North Worcestershire and managed to apply to the IAM and get moving within 10 days.
|
|
Ah, so she is, in which case you can probably disregard my last posting unless you live in Hertfordshire :-)
|
Hi,
Have you tried Herts & Essex who, I think, have avalability.
Website www.iam.org.uk/groups/eherts.
regards
Vercin
|
|
|
|
Please forget it.
There are one or two around here, and I just fear being destroyed by the explosion of their heads!
At 77 I'll still blow 'em off!
|
Thank you for that useful input.
By "I'll still blow 'em off!", did you mean in terms of
1) Attitude (including critical self-awareness)?
2) Concentration?
3) Observation skills?
4) Smoothness (including gearchanges your passengers cannot feel)?
|
|
All these things contribute, of course, though I was not thinking in terms of conveying a possibly windy passenger.
|
PG,
I've not read every reply so apologies if this has already been mentioned.
There's a book called Roadcraft available which is aimed at Police drivers but anyone can get hold of a copy.
I found it quite interesting reading and full of useful advice and tips that you may otherwise not have thought about.
PP
|
I joined in Feb and am having my 1st observed drive this Sat - long waiting list round here.
I was told some insurers offer discount, but they tend to be more expensive in the first place. I am doing it because I fancied doing some "study" of some kind, and as I enjoy driving it seemed a logical thing to do. Maybe it will slow me down a little on motorways which *should* be safer (although I am convinced that the "fast" lane is often the safest place to be on a motorway!!!)
I have only been to one meeting which was a fascinating talk then case studies from two magistrates. The audience was about 40 strong, and over half of them appeared to me rather too old for safe driving! (OK, so I exaggerate a little, but I have to say some had a very self important and holier than thou attitude during the case studies and Q&A).
|
Well, they do sy that the IAM badge means 'Inferior Animals Move over'.
Too old for safe driving? I'll bet you'd swap your insurance premium for mine.
|
Little bit of badge envy Stripey? :-)
I wasn't planning to show any badge anyway, I'm doing it for my own benefit not anyone elses.
|
|
How do you know I don't have one?
|
|
|
Sorry, Smokie -- I forgot to add the -:) to my post. All tongue in cheek.
While I'm on here again I'll come clean. It was close on 40 years ago, and I was second in a queue at a junction, waiting to turn into the major road. The man in front moved off, the road was clear, and I followed him out. As we turned together into the main road, he changed his mind for some unknown reason and braked hard. Yes, I rammed him gently (I know, I know ... but I'm older and wiser now).
In the silence that followed, the only sound was the IAM badge falling of my grille and tinkling onto the road. Never had the heart to get another.
|
|
|
|
|
Hi PG,
As most other people have said, yes, do it. You won't save anything much on insurance, but every £250 excess you don't pay out will be your costs recouped threefold! :-)
The only downside of doing it is that most of your passengers and other drivers won't notice what a good job you're doing. Suddenly there aren't so many idiots on the road, no people suddenly stopping in front of you causing you to achor up, none of those pesky lorries you get caught behind and can't get out to overtake, no need to swerve as people pull out of side roads in front of you, junctions just become clear as you get to them and you cruise straight through. Passengers only notice when things go wrong and it'll look to them like, well, that was good luck, pretty smooth journey, no trouble at all. But you can smile to yourself.
You'll also learn to criticise your own driving and (when you do make mistakes, and everyone does!) understand what you could have done better and learn from them.
Perhaps you are already lucky enough to have reached the dizzyingly high standard of our friend Algernon, but for those of us who haven't, it's a very good idea.
-Mark (preparing for the test now)
|
Fingers crossed for you, Mark.
Has anyone evaluated the relative merits of IAM, RoSPA and the kind of police-backed evening class that my local night school sometimes runs?
|
|
The RoSPA test is generally reckoned to be the better one to take, as your driving is graded as Gold, Silver or Bronze depending on the standard you display. The test also has to be re-taken every two years, whereas the IAM is one test for life membership.
|
|
RoSPA Bronze seem to be about IAM standard. However, RoSPA tends to give you one observer all through whereas you may get a different one every time with the IAM and they may not have the same ideas.
|
However, RoSPAtends to give you one observer all through whereas you may get a different one every time with the IAM and they may not have the same ideas.
Hi,
FYI, re IAM, I've had one observer upto now. I am about to drive with a Senior Observer, as a one off. As I understand it, this is a quality and consistency check before determining a date for the IAM test.
Regards
Vercin
|
Well, I've read this thread for a while now and thought I'd add my twopenneth. I passed my IAM car test about 2 months ago. I found the preparation difficult, not least because of all the bad habits picked up over 25 years driving.
Why did I do it? I passed the IAM motor cycle test way back when punk was young and I honestly believe it saved my life. I cleaned up my act and survived as a biker into my 40s. It gave me standard to aspire to. I don't think I would have made 30 if I'd carried on as I was.
It doesn't really matter whether RoSPA is better or worse - what counts is that you're taking steps to improve you own driving, whatever your starting point. That's all that matters.
... and who knows, you might even enjoy the experience.
|
|
|
|
