Go on then, you know I fancy one of these. Can the backroom recommend to me the ideal Sat Nav system. It must:
1. Be portable from car to car.
2. Run European maps.
3. Run good software.
It should ideally:
1. Have a facility for re-routing round traffic jams.
It would be amusing if it:
1. Included saf e t ycamera sites.
I guess it wants a portable PC. In which case, whatever is the difference between an IPAQ 1950, 4150, etc. etc.? It looks as though you can get a fully set up one on eBay for about £300, including Tom Tom.
If it has real-time re-routing around jams, how much does it cost? (Extra & running costs)
Many thanks!
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Mapmaker. I use an old IBM Thinkpad linked to a Garmin e-Trex GPS receiver with Microsoft Autoroute software. Autoroute has had a GPS plug-in since 2001 but the the 2004 edition is much faster and gives you real-time position. I've used it on drovers' tracks in the Auvergne, forest rides in Normandy and off-road.
It is not a true sat nav, since it needs a pasenger to handle it on the move, but we use it as an adjunct to paper maps when touring, rather than as an end in itself. In terms of detail, the mapping is infinitely superior to any in-car system. Unlike a sat nav system, the laptop will also process your digital holiday snaps, connect you to the Back Room and the Garmin can be used to find where you left the car.
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With a name like yours I should have thought that navigation shouldn't be a problem!
After a lot of research I bought about 2 months ago an iPAQ 2210 and TomTom3. I can only say that this was easily the most useful gadget I have ever bought. I am on the road 3-4 days every week, over several counties, and never visiting the same address twice. In answer to the requirements you have listed:
Portable - definitely
European maps - available but only UK currently loaded on mine
TomTom in my experience is impressive, and apart from the inevitable hiccup (rare) it performs very well.
Re-routing - yes, you simply tap the screen and remove the road number you want to avoid and it will take you off asap and re-route.
Yes, you can load all of the known money hoovers (sorry, 'safety' camera sites) from an excellent site called Pocket GPS www.pocketgps.co.uk/ which is well worth a visit before you purchase. In fact, most of the people on there have a lot more experience than I do!
A tip - if you go ahead with TT make sure you download UK PostCode from Pocket GPS, which is greatly superior to the version in TT.
My only criticism of TT is that they were rather unhelpful with a query over registration of the software - without which you can't get the free upgrades.
I hope you find it as useful as I have - it saves a lot of time route-planning with maps and so on, and greatly reduces stress levels when you are trying to find that elusive address. Not cheap, but very good and in my view indispensible now. TT3 usually takes me right to the front door without having to open the atlas. Bliss!
CG
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Mapmaker,
I used an iPAQ with the Navman sleeve for some time.
Most important lesson was the security of attachment. The early Navmen (?) had a sucker [obvious joke here..] to attach to the windscreen. Or not, as the case may be. Or just for the first half of the journey, if it felt like it.
I don't know what it looked like from outside when my expensive nav equipment suddenly dropped off the window and bounced under the brake pedal at (err) 70 mph but it certainly wasn't fun inside.
So go for a system with a nice and secure fitting. Recent Navmen have a latch that attaches to a ventilation grille, which looks better although I haven't tried it.
Also, I can recommend Memory-map Navigator software, available for the iPAQ. It doesn't give routing instructions but it does display OS maps at various scales with a marker for your current position. You can mark out routes on a PC and export them to the iPAQ before you set off. I found it more relaxing than a little nagging voice saying "turn left here".
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I was a bit sceptical about the sucker arrangement for attaching it to the screen - but it has a vice-like grip and shows no sign of falling off, even in the sweltering heat. The TT kit comes with 3 methods of mounting - sucker on a coily stem, another sucker with a slightly more complicated mount, and the air-vent type - but I can't speak for the latter as the other two have proved reliable (and before anyone says 'why fit both?' I changed them over as one provided better access for getting the iPAQ in and out due to the steep angle of the screen).
I nearly forgot - Mapmaker's query about real-time traffic jam avoidance - not with TT but I do keep the traffic announcement system on and listen for anything major on there. It's worked well enough so far.
CG
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Perhaps a lot depends on purpose. For point-to-point with the minimm hassle then a modern sat nav is ideal. Touring, however, is more often a matter of seeing which the wind is blowing on that day and for that a moving real map -- like my obsolete, cumbersome yet very effective Autotoroute setup -- wins on acount of the true topography displayed (as oposed to sylised roads) and as much real map around your position as you could want on a large display. It also recycles old laptops, so it's Environmental and makes me Morally Superior.
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For reasons which I won't go into I have several PDA-based SatNav setups and have experimented with a few which I have been lent in the past.
My tips:
Don't bother with Bluetooth GPS receivers, more trouble than they are worth in a car and you have to charge them, need extra leads etc. etc.
Think about a CF-card GPS receiver (plugs into PDA's GPS slot and is powered by the PDA). There are a few of these around the £100 or less mark (e.g. GlobalSat BC-307, HaiCom 303MMF) - this gives a nice compact and easily portable system. You can pick them up for less on Ebay (as little as £50). If the PDA sits on (or over) the dash you will get a good signal.
HP2210 is a fine PDA at around the £200 mark.
I have used by TomTom Navigator 3 and Navigon Mobile Navigator (vers. 3 and 4) all over Europe. The NavTech maps supplied with Navigon are generally better and Navigon ver. 4 includes TMC software for avoiding traffic problems (you need a GPS receiver that receives TMC though - its broadcast on the Classic FM frequency). TMC data is free and is broadcast all over Europe.
Navigon do a 99 Euro 'cross upgrade' to version 4 from any old navigation software that you have. So you buy some obsolete and cheap software on Ebay, send the discs to Navigon and pay 99 Euro via PayPal and they will send you their latest software! And it includes ALL maps of Europe - quite a bargain, I think.
TomTom 3 is also not bad, but retails well over £100 for the basic software and your European maps will cost quite a bit extra.
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PS - more on Navigon at www.navigon.de
Click the union flag for info in English.
Click 'Shop' and look at their cross-upgrade offer.
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I have a Viewsonic PocketPC with plug-in Haicom GPS receiver in the Galaxy.
The other half has just got a better one - a Mitac Mio 168, which has a built-in GPS receiver. £245 plus the TT software.
We run TomTom Navigator 3 on both, with TrafCam Scamera software. www.trafcam.com
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Brought other half a Dell Axim X5 with TT2. Recently upgraded too TTT3 which has recently crashed and won't let us reload it...
So now running TT2 again. Not impressed with the accuracy of TT maps either 2 or 3 shows roads in the Kent area which haven't been through roads for 7 years plus! TT user interface is OK loading the s/w is not easy and bits are quite cranky.
Having said the above wife thinks it great as she can cope with maps like fish cope with a pushbike. She also travels all over the South East to individuals addresses as part of her job so it makes that easier.
Jim
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Yes, TomTom maps are not great and have led me 'up the garden path' on a few occassions. Navigon uses NavTech's maps, which seem quite a bit more accurate.
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Well I hope the Autoroute part of these systems is better than my version.
At times it produces the most stupid suggestions.
e.g. take exit 8 off a roundabout that has only 4 roads to it.
I do find it not very user friendly.
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At times it produces the most stupid suggestions. e.g. take exit 8 off a roundabout that has only 4 roads to it.
go round twice, and exit on the road where you entered :)
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But>> >> At times it produces the most stupid suggestions.>> e.g. take exit 8 off a roundabout that has only 4 >> roads to it. go round twice, and exit on the road where you entered :)
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But I cannot count to eight and drive round and round at the same time.
I did not fancy one of its other directions where it said exit at a motorway junction and then it did a U turn and came back on at the same junction.
It could be a source of entertainment on a Sunday to follow some of these suggested routes.
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Have a look at TomTom Go. It's not cheap (£450) but it ticks all the boxes.
1. Couldn't be more so; a one piece unit that's very small;
2. European maps are included at major road level and expandable to street level;
3. TomTom Navigator is 3d, a bit like the one in the Primera, and is pretty good.
Ideally:
1. I think you can use it with the traffic subscription service that applies to the PDA based ones. Not sure about the running costs.
Amusingly:
1. Not as standard but the PDA ones can support it so I imagine that this one would too.
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My Autoroute setup predates the modern true sat nav, but I have updated it to 2004 version. I do not for one moment suggest that it will replace true sat nav -- it does not steer you, does not make suggestions, and is emphatically not a navigation system in that sense. It never sends you twice round a roundabout to get exit 8 out of 4, because it doesn't say a dicky bird. It is a moving icon on a map -- someone has to read the map. When James Bond came up with one of these in an early film we laughed . . .
If you wish, you can set a route from A to B beforehand by the usual criteria -- shortest, fastest, etc., and you can save and follow that route, but you are reading a map not listening to a route. It goes to street detail, or postcodes, and covers all Europe. I have had no problem in the most remote parts of France.
The car's position is shown accurately, but is of of value only to those codgers (like me) who still navigate by reading a map.
However, Auutoroute 2004, which comes with the GPS plug-in, cost me £25-£30 on promotion. My old IBM notebook has been redundant since I retired and I already had a hand-held GPS receiver for other outdoor activities (if not, you can buy a Magellan or Garmin for around £100 or so). I had to buy a car power cord for the laptop and a data connection/power cord for the GPS.
The GPS sits on the front of the facia (it sees satellites through the sloping screen perfectly well) and is secured by the Stripey Mk V dash mount -- a sticky-back coat hook and two elastic bands. In addition to feeding Autoroute, the GPS will read off speed more accurately than the speedo, give altitude, compass heading etc.
Titter ye not. It cost peanuts, works to an accuracy of about the width of the road and has been fun to play with. And another thing. Sat nav proper is a valuable tool, but just as calculators have produced a generation who cannot do mental arithmetic (or arithmetic at all) are we not now getting a generation who won't know what a map is?
Must write to Renault. Why can't I have a starting handle for my 2.0 litre Mégane?
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I use the HP iPAQ Navigation System (re badged Copilot Live)www.teamwarrior.com/ins/index.htm which works well. It is possible to pre-plan and save entire journeys and waypoints so you dont have any surprises on route (you cant do that with some others). It is possible for the software to re-route automatically(using mobile and paying more money) if part of your route has a problem. You also can just hit a large re-route icon if you encounter a traffic jam. If you vere off route the software re calculates within seconds. Directions (verbal and on screen)are not just "turn left" they describe the route in more detail "At roundabout the first exit down the B1248 East".
It also has an accurate speedo that can display MPH or KmPH (especially useful in France etc). The stored Points of Interest
are useful for finding hotels/airports/ tourist attractions etc...
Only bought it as a toy to make me feel better when I hit 40, but now couldn't drive without it.
The windscreen sucker mount was useless, instead I fabricated a vent mount widget. (thick plastic bolted to a modified PC ST slot blanking plate)
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If you're looking for a decent setup, I think mine is as good as any and for not a _huge_ amount of cash.
I've got an XDA2 through work which gives me a PDA and GPRS combined. Thus, traffic updates are a doddle.
I run it with TomTom3 and their Bluetooth receiver using traffic updates. On top of this, I've added CheckPoint POI from the Pocket GPS website and thus have speed camera warnings. OK, it's not as good as something like Road Angel for update frequency, but it works well enough for me.
I bought a sucker holder on eBay and it has worked fine on the MINI, our clio and a Jaguar XJ8. It does have a button on the back to aid suction, so maybe that's the difference.
So, I've got
* XDA2
* TomTom3 with traffic
* TomTom Bluetooth
* Checkpoint POI
and it gives me
* Full navigation in 2D/3D with voice instructions and auto reroute
* Warnings of speed camera sites
* Traffic update info with (if I want) auto route recalculation
It's great, can highly recommend it.
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Lee
MINI adventure in progress
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oh right, the question :
1. Be portable from car to car.
Yes
2. Run European maps.
Yes, comes with basic, can purchase (cough) others
3. Run good software.
Yes, easy to use and from version 3, fast
It should ideally:
1. Have a facility for re-routing round traffic jams.
Yes
It would be amusing if it:
1. Included evil revenue raising devices.
Yes
I guess it wants a portable PC. In which case, whatever is the difference between an IPAQ 1950, 4150, etc. etc.? It looks as though you can get a fully set up one on eBay for about £300, including Tom Tom.
Anything with bluetooth is good, you tend to pay more for WiFi built in. Unless you've got a network you use this on (i did use my 5450 at home, it's not really worth the extra. If you can get one with a phone built in XDA2/iMate/upcoming hp6340 it makes traffic updates a lot easier. Otherwise you'll need to connect to a phone via Infra-red or Bluetooth which is a _lot_ more complicated.
If it has real-time re-routing around jams, how much does it cost? (Extra & running costs)
49Euro/year and then call costs (hardly anything on GPRS)
My iMate (XDA) comes with 128Mb of RAM (full UK Maps 101Mb), but really you should think of an additional SD card (256Mb-£35 /512-£60) for maps etc. Be careful not to buy a 64Mb PDA which has only one slot and no bluetooth. If you rely on the slot for GPS connectivity then you can't then put extra storage on for maps.
HTH,
Lee
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Lee
MINI adventure in progress
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