Correct procedure is as follows:
With the vehicle stationary on the driveway, disconnect the caravan from the towbar. Advertise the caravan on ebay, and depart on holiday. Stay at a hotel or other boarding house, and on your return collect the money from sale of your caravan.
:o)
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>>>With the vehicle stationary on the driveway, disconnect the caravan from the towbar. Advertise the caravan on ebay, and depart on holiday. Stay at a hotel or other boarding house, and on your return collect the money from sale of your caravan.
VERY VERY VERY confused!
How exactly does this reduce the number of caravans on the roads?
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Trailer tents look to be a good compromise. I was thinking of taking up caravaning as I approach middle age. However trailer tents like Conways weigh much less than a caravan, they're much more compact and yet, when erected they're bigger than most caravans. OK, they're much more basic, but isn't that what camping is all about!
Cheers, SS
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Trailer tents look to be a good compromise...
Or one of these with an awning:
www.eriba-uk.com/
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Some will be sold to foreign buyers.
And the rest will just sit on the drive while ebay does its work. Journeys will be limited to delivery to the new owner so that s/he can put it up for sale!
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I've got this amazing sensation of deja vu.
--
Terry
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>>I've got this amazing sensation of deja vu.
I've got that again.
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I've got this amazing sensation of deja vu. -- Terry
Didn't you just say that?
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No thanks, I've seen it already.
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When I used to work towing caravan-like exhibition trailers we were told to ease gently off the throttle at the first sign of the trailer beginning to snake. I only had this happen once and the advice worked.
The alternative to this is to accelerate briskly, but unless you're driving something very powerful this doesn't usually have the desired effect.
Other advice was not to grip the steering wheel too tightly and to drive as smoothly as possible at all times.
I had the unfortunate experience of being sat on the back seat of a 4x4 whilst the driver was receiving some towing tuition, the trailer started to snake, the driver didn't listen to the instructors guidance, he panicked, the snaking got worse, he tried to compensate with the vehicle steering and lost control crashing into the central reservation and tipping the trailer onto it's side in the process. The 4x4 remained upright but was left dangling from the overturned trailer's tow hitch. Thankfully all this happened on a relatively quiet dual carriageway and no other vehicles became involved.
PP
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Never had a caravan snake, only a 4-wheel car trailer
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=16...0
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
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Never, ever towed a caravan, but do seem to remember something about ensuring that weight distribution is as far forward as possible.
Must be something to do with too much weight at the rear of a caravan turning it into a form of pendulem and therefore inducing shake.
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Never, ever towed a caravan, but do seem to remember something about ensuring that weight distribution is as far forward as possible. Must be something to do with too much weight at the rear of a caravan turning it into a form of pendulem and therefore inducing shake.
Plus weighing down to rear of the caravan would lighten the front, lifting your car's rear wheel, and making it more likely to lose grip I would have thought.
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Er...
surely the correct place to load any kind of trailer is over the rear axles.
JaB
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i`ve never owned/towed a caravan, but regularly tow a boat with a heavy outboard hanging off the back, on a 2-wheel trailer, and find that as long as the wieght forward of the axle equals / slightly exceeds the wieght behind the axle then the boat tows very safely at most speeds. I believe you can buy stabiliser bars that are fitted to caravan drawbars,to counter-act the snaking problem, do these actually work?
billy.
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Nose weight is given in the manual but typically is 75-90Kg. Any less and you'll promote snaking ESPECIALLY down hill. Any more and you risk damaging the tow car, making the steering very light, increasing the braking distances and if Front wheel drive reducing traction.
Jim
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I use a stabiliser bar. it has a twofold effect - stopping too much up and down bouncing at the towbar, and increasing friction for lateral movement thereby decreasing the likelihood of snaking.
Snaking often occurs when going downhill (briskly), I understand it is when the trailer is travlling faster than the towing vehicle. So, probably the absolutely scientifically correct solution is to speed up - but often cars are at (or above) either the speed limit or their own physical limit when is starts, so the practical way to stop it is to slow gently (i.e. no brakes). Sometimes it is too late.
Glad to see that certain members of this board are maintaining their predictable anti-caravan stance. It's yet another of those generalisations which small minds can latch onto easily as they can identify a specific group easily - see also 4 x 4's, women drivers, lorry drivers, buses, green cars - any readily identifiable group seems to be fair game for some. Caravanning provides (generally) a cheap holiday (not everyone can afford hotels), and usually an active type of holiday with plenty of social life. We don't all get pleasure from being cooped up in hotels spening our evenings watching Big Brother and being processed through each mealtime... :-)
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I use a stabiliser bar. it has a twofold effect - stopping too much up and down bouncing at the towbar, and increasing friction for lateral movement thereby decreasing the likelihood of snaking.
Yep, me too. If it's the friction damper type, remember to set the friction load every year or the stabiliser will turn into a useless ornament.
any readily identifiable group seems to be fair game for some. Caravanning provides (generally) a cheap holiday (not everyone can afford hotels), and usually an active type of holiday with plenty of social life. We don't all get pleasure from being cooped up in hotels spening our evenings watching Big Brother and being processed through each mealtime... :-)
Agree absolutely.
We will be setting off for Bouton-on-the-Water from Richmond tomorrow and expect to see courtesy, helpfulness, ignorance, stress and blind stupidity in varying measures. Towcar and caravan have recently been serviced and the 'van wheel nuts torqued up to 70 ft/lb. 'Van tyres are fitted with Tyron run-while-punctured technology. Caravanning suits this family and will continue to do so for a while yet. Blimey, even my impoverished daughters aged 18 and 22 will be joining us for the second week so by the end of August I confidently expect to have all the country's problems solved and be head of a benevolent dictatorship. First item on the agenda; suitable punishment for the anti-caravan lobby ...
Hawkeye
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Stranger in a strange land
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Caravanning provides (generally) a cheap holiday (not everyone can afford hotels), and usually an active type of holiday with plenty of social life. We don't all get pleasure from being cooped up in hotels spening our evenings watching Big Brother and being processed through each mealtime... :-)
Fair point. I did provide a positive answer in my suggested poll! I can well see why people want to go caravanning, it's just not my taste. I'm being TIC (mainly) as this is still a free country, in theory at least, and I feel it should be more so. You don't have any right to dictate to me what I drive and where/how I holiday, and the same must apply to me.
It is frustrating when I'm behind a caravan towed by an underpowered car driven by an inexperienced tower on a minor road, either lost or taking an unnecessary shortcut. As ever, the sensible majority are let down by the inconsiderate and the inexperienced.
I don't especially want to ignite this one again, just thought I'd clarify where I come from, and perhaps tone down the impression I've probably given.
PS - you won't catch me watching BB, in a hotel or otherwise!
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Top post Smokie!
I've generally stopped taking the bait of the anti- lobby (seen and heard it all before) but you've hit the nail on the head.
I've only got into a snake once - on a French autoroute after overtaking a string of lorries and I ran out of uphill gradient. Bow-wave hit me at 80 mph and woomph. Luckily I took the correct action - feet off *everything* and concentrate on keeping the car in a straight line. Going downhill, I put the lightest of pressure on the brakes and luckily it straightened out okay.
Now I've got an Al-Ko stabiliser that acts on the towball which would help if I ever got into that situation again (which is unlikely - once bitten and all that!). I'm now also scrupulous about loading the van.
In addition to the economic social and active benefits I'd add that you know who was last sleeping in your bed and using your kitchen and dining equipment! Many other advantages too numerous to go into here.
--
Terry
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Bow-wave hit me at 80 mph
Err, why were you at 80 mph while towing a caravan?
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>> Bow-wave hit me at 80 mph Err, why were you at 80 mph while towing a caravan?
Why not? It's legal in France
--
Terry
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It may well be legal, but is is safe and considerate? Your experience suggests not. It sounds to me as if you came close to a serious incident. I accept that I am not an expert on towing, though.
AFAIK, it is legal for me to overtake a caravan and then do an emergency stop a few seconds later. I wouldn't though.
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It may well be legal, but is is safe and considerate?
No less safe than anything else. In my case it was the co-incidence of a number of factors - this could just as easily have happened at 40.
Seems to me we can't win. Some say we drive too slowly and hold them up, others say we're too fast. I can only conclude we've got it about right then!
AFAIK, it is legal for me to overtake a caravan and then do an emergency stop a few seconds later. I wouldn't though.
Many do, that's another reason I like to keep a well-matched outfit! I reckon that 3.5 tons of 4x4 plus caravan has enough inertia to do more than enough damage to an average compact car/911, let alone the occupants (of either vehicle).
Go on, try it sometime :o)
--
Terry
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Go on, try it sometime :o)
Just read that again - I meant towing, not overtaking and doing an emergency stop!
--
Terry
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Seems to me we can't win. Some say we drive too slowly and hold them up, others say we're too fast. I can only conclude we've got it about right then!
I'd like to think there is a happy medium, fast enough to make progress but slow enough not to invite a serious incident.
And I don't object to slow-moving traffic as such, the roads belong to all of us. Slow traffic that won't pull over, insists on drifting out to the right, or is slow because of inadequate ability or silly choices of car/trailer is another matter.
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I'd like to think there is a happy medium, fast enough to make progress but slow enough not to invite a serious incident. And I don't object to slow-moving traffic as such, the roads belong to all of us. Slow traffic that won't pull over, insists on drifting out to the right, or is slow because of inadequate ability or silly choices of car/trailer is another matter.
You're pushing against an open door here. Of course I (and all other "tuggers") drive solo as well so we know the frustrations as well as anytone else. Equally we get to see the other side of the coin and often have a laugh/scream/panic attack at some others' attitudes and antics.
--
Terry
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>>are maintaining their predictable anti-caravan stance..
Its the standard "I don't want to do it so you shouldn't" approach. I have always maintained its driven by jealousy, but I think frequently insecurity has a fair amount to do with it also.
Can't say I'd go caravanning; but I can't say they've ever particularly annoyed me; certainly not to the extent of banning them.
Some people seem to have very little of import to worry about in their life. I've got about 15,000,000 important problems to solve before I get to the point of worrying about being held up by a caravan once in a blue moon.
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I've got about 15,000,000 important problems to solve before I get to the point of worrying about being held up by a caravan once in a blue moon.
So have I. Most of them are alleviated if I can get to my home or to my office promptly to sort them out. So while I don't give monkeys about whether someone tows a caravan, I prefer them to tow in a considerate manner.
Just as I assume that (for example) horse riders expect me to pass them in a considerate manner whilst making my way home. And caravanners expect me to give them room to turn when they need it. Both of which I try to do.
Its the standard "I don't want to do it so you shouldn't" approach.
As I explained, I'm quite happy for people to go caravanning. I'd just like them to do so considerately.
jealousy
I'm laughing now.
insecurity
quite secure, thanks.
--------------------------------------
I appreciate your point of view, Mark, from your previous comments in other threads. I'd just say that, if all of us worried about the 15x10^6 issues instead of things like this, the BR would go awfully quiet!
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>>I'd just say that, if all of us worried about the 15x10^6 issues instead of things like this, the BR would go awfully quiet!
Oh you're completely correct. And I think its worth discussing and arguing about.
I just get all twitchy when one person says that another person should not be permitted to do something. We've already got too much of that enshrined in law.
And as an aside, I do use phrases and words like most, some, nearly all, a few, all, everyone and the like quite carefully. So not everything I say applies, even in my own mind, to all people. Or even some people all of the time.
And there is a big difference between saying something should be done considerately, which you normally do say, and saying something should be banned, which some [not all] others frequently [not always] say.
You,r irritation around caravans whilst seemingly reasonable, is obvious based on a deep-seated jealousy and an all consuming envy coupled with an overwhelming ambition to tow one - give up the unequal struggle and admit that you're a closet caravanner ! We'll still talk to you.
Ever wondered what a caravanner with enthusiasm to the power of 10 would be like ? I had lunch with a dedicated narrow boat owner and resident today. Oh my good god. About half way through the main course I lost the will to live and began trying to dig out a major vein from my wrist with a bic biro just to end the misery of it all.
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You,r irritation around caravans whilst seemingly reasonable, is obvious based on a deep-seated jealousy and an all consuming envy coupled with an overwhelming ambition to tow one - give up the unequal struggle and admit that you're a closet caravanner ! We'll still talk to you.
No! No! I shall resist with every fibre of my being!!!!
;-)
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No! No! I shall resist with every fibre of my being!!!!
Aha! A caravanner in denial! ;-)
Actually, that coukd make quite a bumper sticker for a sports car. For some reason, I think it would probably work particularly well on a Porsche ...
{ducks and runs away ...}
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{ducks and runs away ...}
As well you might!
Sully the 911 with a bumper sticker? Really......
;-)
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Classic towing accident on the A31 last night. Downhill stretch of dual carriageway, about halfway between Ringwood and the M27. Chap in a Mondeo Estate finds himself facing back up the hill, his frankly huge RIB (think RNLI Inshore Lifeboat x 200%) parked 50 yards or so further down the hill still facing the right way. Oh, and what's this? The violent wrenching on the towbar has pulled half the rear of the car out and has split the fuel tank, spilling 50 litres of diesel all over both lanes.
8 miles of stationary traffic, fire brigade and police in evidence. Mr Policeman seemed to be very busy scribbling in his notepad whilst red-faced Mr Mondeo looks for hole in the ground to swallow him up.
Knowing that road as I do, I can all but guarantee that the poor chap was in the inside lane on that downhill, approaching a slower vehicle and indicating to pull out. I can also guarantee that nobody was prepared to let him out. Too late, he brakes. Trailer attempts an overtake all of its own......
Guesswork, but I travel this road every day and see this behaviour repeated upwards of 20 times on each journey. A bit of consideration and several thousand people wouldn't have been late home for dinner, missed an appointment or failed to get to hospital in time to say farewell to a loved one.
Whatever "tribe" of motoring you belong to we do all share a few strands of DNA and we all leak when we're punctured. Now be NICE!
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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Have to say he got what he deserved, my sympathy is reserved for everyone else whos time he wasted. Selfish is not a strong enough word for these people.
Try getting a decent car, ditch the caravan and stay in some nice hotels instead of your stinky shed on wheels would be my advice to caravanners.
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Lighten up a bit. Just because you don't want to do it, doesn't mean that others should not be allowed to.
Sure they should do it with reason and consideration - but a little consideration and tolerance from yourself wouldn't go amiss either.
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Have to say he got what he deserved, my sympathy is reserved for everyone else whos time he wasted. Selfish is not a strong enough word for these people.
Your sympathy may be reserved for those who had a journey delayed, but your words suggest that you wouldn't have let the chap out either, making you equally culpable in the above situation.
Try getting a decent car, ditch the caravan and stay in some nice hotels instead of your stinky shed on wheels would be my advice to caravanners.
Not helpful. Your argument is based on prejudice and your choice not to use a caravan. You're entitled to this choice, but what about your choice of transport? What if equally vehement protests are voiced about your choice of holiday? Aircraft use massive amounts of fossil fuels whilst ships produce more particulate pollution per mile than any other form of transport.
No, I don't have a caravan, nor do I desire one. I throughly enjoy driving and appreciate an open road as much as the next enthusiast but we have to accept that this is one overcrowded isle with little hope of relief. Accept that and learn to tolerate those around you and maybe, just maybe, your behaviour will rub off on others.
As an unapologetic petrolhead (ok, diesel) I reserve playtime for the open country roads that still exist in the country. Dual carriageways and Motorways are about transport pure and simple. Once we accept this and help our fellow travellers in the journey, the congestion and accidents should ease a little.
No Dosh
Posting as me, not expressing "Moderator" Opinions
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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I think your wrong by saying I wouldn't let the towing driver out, whatever my prejudices I always remain courteous to other road users, even selfish caravanners. Of course I've never been in that situation so can't say for sure, what I can say is I wouldn't offer to help in any way following such an accident.
I was merely stating what seems to be obvious, those that tow caravans are extremely selfish individuals who rarely pull over when safe to do so in order to let the frustrated drivers who are sat in convoy behind them get on with their lives.
I wonder if while spending their time in some dreary field looking at other caravans if they'd ever sat down and worked out the true cost of their chosen holiday method.
For the price/upkeep of a tawdry caravan you could stay in some rather nice hotels for the 2 weeks a year you actually use the the thing and not clog up some of the most beautiful parts of our country. Just a thought.
By all means carry on using the things, it is after all a free country, which is why I'm able to voice my opposition.
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I think your wrong by saying I wouldn't let the towing driver out, whatever my prejudices I always remain courteous to other road users, even selfish caravanners.
My apologies. I drew my impression from the tone of your post. But what's this!
Of course I've never been in that situation so can't say for sure, what I can say is I wouldn't offer to help in any way following such an accident.
Ah. That courtesy on goes so far then.
I was merely stating what seems to be obvious, those that tow caravans are extremely selfish individuals who rarely pull over when safe to do so in order to let the frustrated drivers who are sat in convoy behind them get on with their lives.
Blimey, the 170+ miles I do each day must be on different roads to you. Rarely do I get held up for more than 30 seonds at a time by such behaviour. And the impact of that 30 seconds at 50 mph? Perhaps 5 seconds on my overall journey time?
I wonder if while spending their time in some dreary field looking at other caravans if they'd ever sat down and worked out the true cost of their chosen holiday method.
Yup, that's all they do, sit in the field they parked their caravan in. Never go out and view the area. What tosh! That has all the validity of stating that those who use a hotel never leave their room!
For the price/upkeep of a tawdry caravan you could stay in some rather nice hotels for the 2 weeks a year you actually use the the thing and not clog up some of the most beautiful parts of our country. Just a thought.
Ah, clogging it up. So without them you would get greater enjoyement, to their detriment. Who's selfish?
By all means carry on using the things, it is after all a free country, which is why I'm able to voice my opposition.
They will, it is, you are.
Good 'ere, innit.
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ND - well said, in principle. But there are too many factors we don't know about. What was the caravanner trying to get past? Had it been obvious for some time in advance? Or had it pointlessly stood on the brakes a few moments before? How much warning did he give that he wanted to pull out?
And so on. As you say, it looks like rudeness towards the caravan, but we weren't there so we can't tell.
Nevertheless, as you say, we could all get there a lot earlier by showing a little more understanding and a little less self-righteousness.
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>>Selfish is not a strong enough word for these people.
Absolutely. I presume you mean those idiots who wouldn't let him out in front of them? (See Definitive Instructions on how to let an HGV out in front of you.)
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You could argue that the caravanner was the idiot. Driving at an inappropriate speed and trying to force his way into heavy traffic.
We don't know so can't comment.
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Right, quick clarification needs to be made here. RIB is a Rigid Inflatable Boat (hence the comparison to an RNLI Inshore Lifeboat).
Regardless of whether the chap towing this outfit had misjudged the manouvere, any following car in the outside lane has the opportunity to see what\'s coming. When was the last time anyone here was truly surprised by another driver\'s manouvere? Can you honestly say you had been diligently observing the road and traffic conditions in the moments leading up to your surprise?
I agree that it could simply be the case that the driver failed to control the descent adequately, but this kind of situation can be alleviated if other drivers see this developing and make room.
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Ah ... but in today's society, someone has to be to blame.
After all, how else would everyone else get that warm glow of self-righteousness?
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Fair point, well made.....
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Agreed that the courtesy only goes so far.
When camping in Belgium earlier this year some brits towing a cravan who I'd overtaken a couple of hours earlier turned up with their mouldering holiday shed and proceeded to stick it on the hard standing opposite my tent.
They obviously recognised my car and made a few comments about how my overtaking them hadn't saved me much time (enough to pitch the tent and visit the campsite bar for a few beers, but hey what do I know, I'm sure they had a great time annoying all the locals by crawling along at 50kph in 90kph zone).
Needless to say when some local toerags visited their caravan as I was packing my tent away I didn't say a thing. Neither had I seen anything when they came back to find their valuables gone.
It's a Karma thing.
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What a charmer!
Camping in Belgium? What happened to the nice hotel?
And for the sake of our Karma do tell us all what you drive so we can turn a blind eye next time you're in need of help or vandalised or robbed.
--
Terry
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>>Needless to say when some local toerags visited their caravan..
Goodness. What a deeply unpleasant attitude.
And you need to curb it a bit in here.
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'Caravanning provides (generally) a cheap holiday (not everyone can afford hotels)'.
If anyone buys a caravan for cheap holidays I feel they are deluding themselves. Cheap revenue costs (extra fuel, pitching etc), but the capital investment in the caravan and a suitable car to pull it can buy a lot of hotel nights.
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If anyone buys a caravan for cheap holidays I feel they are deluding themselves. Cheap revenue costs (extra fuel, pitching etc), but the capital investment in the caravan and a suitable car to pull it can buy a lot of hotel nights.
There's a big difference between a brand new twin axle monster towed by a new Landcruiser and a ten year-old two plus two berth towed by an old Mondeo. The former is very expensive while the latter is little more than a week in a Lake District holiday cottage (which is more comparable with caravan holidays than a hotel room) and will last many years with basic maintenance. Some people are doing it to save money, others so they can take "home" with them on holiday, still others are doing it because they like camping but some circumstance (disability, or having kids for example) stops them using a tent. Let's not lump them all together.
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I'm not against caravanners - I go camping myself so can see the attraction of being able to go to some fantastic places off the beaten track.
I just feel the cheap holiday reason isn't entirely honest - I imagine most people prefer the caravan style holiday. Most caravans I pass are not ten years old and being pulled by a similarly aged Mondeo, they are modern and pulled by £15,000+ vehicles.
My parent's neighbours are a case in point - they moaned they couldn't afford to go abroad this year (only two of them) then went out and spent £5,000 on a caravan and a new car to pull it!
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>>& you need to kerb it.
Do 'vans have alloys then?
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No caravan holiday is as cheap as a French Gite booked directly. 4 of us, end of May, lovely gite 4 bedrooms near Langres was so cheap that I cannot remember whether it was £120 or £130. Alternatively, cost of capital of £2,500 caravan-shed is £125; ferry ticket - goodness only knows; petrol - lots.
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... and the caravan is yours for the other 50 weeks of the year for you to use. Additional petrol cost don't amount to much. Ferries often have "free caravan" deals if you are prepared to travel at unsocial times and book early.
And of course it has a resale value.
btw...intolerance I can stand, I'm a Big Boy now. However judging by the insulting nature of some of these posts the same can't be said for us all here...
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>>>if you are prepared to travel at unsocial times.
probably why there is so many on the roads at rush hour/peak commuting times. :-) <--emoticons seem to becoming mandatory.
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Oooohhh!
And to think all this sprouted as a result of me posting apparently confilcting views on what to do about caravan wobble.
From this thread, I have learned, that I should if possible allow a caravan out, especially if he is approaching a slower vehicle (if he is just stuck behind a slower vehicle at the same speed, I might not be so inclined to assist).
I also think that in all my years I have never seen a caravan giveway and allow the traffic behind to pass...however, to clarify..
1. I have not been stuck behind loads of them so what do I know!
2. I know from experience that it's not easy to pull over on a strange road when there is someone behind you, even when you are just in your car - not towing, by the time you see a suitable 'pull in' you either have to slam the anchors on or you've missed it. and so doing this with a caravan must be a nightmare. All the more reason not to have one some would say.
3. I have seen lots of tractors pull in to allow traffic to pass, but just as many don't!
I think like the guy on the radio said that it may be legal to do 80 or even 90mph towing a caravan on the continent, but it's certainly not safe (this guy was a caravaning nut/authority).
Febus: You wouldn't stop to help, hope this doesn't include if there was injuries. Also I think you'll find that karma applies equally to you, they may have got your goat by commenting on your overtaking, even if they were completely rude and out of order, you should still have done what you could to stop the toerags theiving and assisted them afterwards. I could recite a relevant moral fable to this but I won't. What goes around comes around.
No Dosh: "or stop those from getting to hospital to say farewell to a loved one" Hope this wasn't you on that particular night.
Generally: When I towed a big trailer, it had brakes (very effective brakes) do caravans have brakes and does this stop the caravan from overtaking the towing vehicle in the afore mentioned situations? And when I towed that trailer it burned my clutch out big time. So caravaning no doubt increases clutch wear.
In an ideal world people would have mobile homes instead of caravans, but they are both ugly eyesores (which is why they are banned from parking in the roadside layby's in France) It is far more cheaper, convienient, and respectful to other road users to use a tent.
Love and light to all, and hey! let's be careful out there.
---
was kev_is_here
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No Dosh: "or stop those from getting to hospital to say farewell to a loved one" Hope this wasn't you on that particular night.
Fortunately not this time, but always at the front of my mind at this time of year, having gone through this 3 years ago. Thanks for the kind thought.
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Generally: When I towed a big trailer, it had brakes (very effective brakes) do caravans have brakes and does this stop the caravan from overtaking the towing vehicle in the afore mentioned situations? And when I towed that trailer it burned my clutch out big time. So caravaning no doubt increases clutch wear. In an ideal world people would have mobile homes instead of caravans, but they are both ugly eyesores (which is why they are banned from parking in the roadside layby's in France)
Yes, caravans do have brakes, activated by the over-run on UK 'vans. Never had a problem with the clutch on any of my vehicles. You really should learn to tow properly to preserve your clutch from damage.
Caravans are not banned from lay-bys in France. Indeed, they are usually known as "aires" (de repos) and are provided for all road users, with places specifically provided for caravans.
Most caravanners do pull over to allow others to overtake. Unfortunately, as has happened to me on countless numbers of occasions, you get a couple of vehicles behind you that wilfully refuse to get past and thus prevent those behind them from overtaking.
The total cost of my outfit is in excess of £35,000. My Honda Accord Diesel Tourer was purchased for the express purpose of towing. It's not a cheap holiday, but it offers total freedom to do as one pleases. The cost of ferry fares, site fees, holiday insurance and fuel, for a six week holiday in France, would pay for a business class flight to Thailand. That doesn't include eating out at a variety of restaurants and extraneous activities. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to take my cocker spaniel with me.
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of my vehicles. You really should learn to tow properly to preserve your clutch from damage. Caravans are not banned from lay-bys in France. Indeed, they are usually known as "aires" (de repos) and are provided for all road users, with places specifically provided for caravans.
To clarify: To be honest my clutch was allready worn, but the heavy load on the biggest trailer I could hire, burned it out by the time I had got home.
I was referring to overnight parking, (I deliberately left that out so it would sound more dramatic), in Brittany every layby/parking spot I see has the sign saying no motorhomes over night. In practice though who's going to stop them and sure enough the place is littered with them.
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was kev_is_here
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.I was referring to overnight parking, (I deliberately left that out so it would sound more dramatic), in Brittany every layby/parking spot I see has the sign saying no motorhomes over night. In practice though who's going to stop them and sure enough the place is littered with them. --- was kev_is_here
A motorhome is not a caravan. The sign is aimed specifically at some owners of motorhomes who are unwilling to pay site fees and stay overnight in car parks. However, some towns in France allow this and even provide facilities for emptying waste tanks etc. This courtesy is never extended to caravan owners.
You really should get your facts right. I have travelled extensively throughout France and have never seen a caravan - apart from those travelling folk - parked in a car park. Indeed, it's probably impossible, as most car parks have height restricting barriers which effectively prevent any caravan from entering.
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You really should get your facts right. I have travelled extensively throughout France and have never seen a caravan - apart from those travelling folk - parked in a car park. Indeed, it's probably impossible, as most car parks have height restricting barriers which effectively prevent any caravan from entering.
Ouch! What facts did I have wrong then?
I'm sure the sign applies equally to caravans (I'll check when I'm there next week)it would be insane if it didn't.
I never said they were banned 24/7
I never said ALL layby's /parking spots
I said "in France" which could mean all or just a part of France.
I wasn't reffering to car parks - under our normal definitiion - I said "parking spots" / "layby's" and most if not all of the ones I have seen don't have height bars, which is why there is quite often a motorhome there, yes motorhome, because the Belgians prefer motorhomes to caravans. and it's mostly the Germans and the Belgians, who you see (because they don't have to go on the ferry, so there is more of them) If you see a caravan you're almost gauranteed it's British.
I didn't re-read my earlier posts to check all the above so I could be wrong, if I am, I'm sure you'll let me know.
The probable reason you rarely see a caravan in a parking spot, that if you do see one of the two, it's most likely going to be a motorhome, is because a caravan is so impractical. I know if I was towing a caravan I would't want to go down a narrow road to see what's at the end because I'd be sure to come to some problem. The fact that motorhomes can and do with impunity proves that they are more manouverable and hence more practical. However I hold the view that both forms of transport are an ugly addition to scenery. and are a cause of congestion and it would be nice if possible for the caravan tower when he has been holding up traffic for a good 10 miles or so to pull in to a layby to allow the traffic to overtake. For example on the the A350 to Poole.
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was kev_is_here
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>>other 50 weeks of the year
Ever been in one when it's raining? Ping, Ping, Ping, Ping, Ping...
<----- [there's an emoticon for you.]
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I have not had an opportunity until this evening to check the response to my enquiry so you can imagine my amazement to find so many posts!
Many thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts and experiences?.it has been a good read.
Strictly speaking, only one person (Stuartli) made any comment on the precise questions which I raised re the suggestions which I had made to my son re torque, RPM, correct gear etc but I have to confess that about 24 hours after starting the thread I suddenly remembered that on my bookshelf were all four volumes of ?The Daily Telegraph Book of Motoring Answers? each of which have a section on towing.
Having had a good look at these sections I am now a little wiser. Two points, in particular, stick in my mind: (1) That H.J. strongly recommends the use of stabiliser bars and (2) that it might well be best to gently slow down in the event of snaking in case the cause is a deflated caravan tyre!
As with so many things in life?.good preparation pays off?.prevention is better than cure.
Again, my thanks.
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What is a stabiliser bar & how does it work?
A quick google comes up with www.turriff-caravan-camping.co.uk/html/accessories...m which is less than entirely helpful...
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What is a stabiliser bar & how does it work?
With that kind of inquisitive mind, all you need is a good dose of pedantry and you will be ideally suited to the patent profession...
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I find tax satisfies my inquisitive mind & excessive pedantry. But thanks!
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On which side of the fence?
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Don't knock patents please, my father spent his whole working life working for a patent agents !
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Without wishing to get into the realms of moderation, I'd just like to clarify the fact that if a caravan was burning at the side of the road I wouldn't even render the assistance of watering it with a certain self produced waste product.
Hope that clarifies the issue.
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Whereas patently works...?
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Whereas patently works...?
For himself, mainly. Sometimes I look after an inventor with a bright idea, where that is compatible with part (i) aforesaid.
Your side
That's a relief.
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What is a stabiliser bar & how does it work?
Try this site for a better explanation: members.lycos.co.uk/paulbond/history.htm
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This part of the world is full of vanners at this time of year, and good luck to them if thats the sort of holiday they want. So I get held up now and again, but it's not life threatening. This is a tolerant part of GB and we're used to tractors anyway.
But can one of the vanners please tell me what the attraction is? I just don't get it.
I would liken it to dividing your kitchen into three rooms, adding a chemical toilet and living in it for two weeks, after first driving 250 miles with the handbrake on. Then driving the same distance again with the handbrake on at the end of it all, before re-arranging your house again and getting back to normal.
I just gotta be missing something.
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I just gotta be missing something.
No, that's about all I can see, too.
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Is this thread still going?
I have to admit that is the best description of 'vanning I've read in a while.
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And don't forget, putting a cover over your large kitchen sink and do all the washing up in the central waste thingy, or doing it out side in a plastic W/u bowl that you bring along for the purpose. and lower the ceiling height.
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Choice A: Put 2 dogs into kennels at vast expense and pay for a hotel/boarding house for ourselves.
Choice B: Tell dogs to get into car, hitch up caravan and pay <£15 a night all-in.
No contest.
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Does that mean I have to buy another dog?
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Does that mean I have to buy another dog?
No, it means you have to buy a caravan ...
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No, it means you have to buy a caravan ...
Is there no choice?
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I think it means both.
And if you have to buy a caravan, NW, I'm sure you'll agree that you need a IVxIV to tow it. That's two threads today in which you're trumpeting your new-found idea.
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And if you have to buy a caravan, NW, I'm sure you'll agree that you need a IVxIV to tow it.
Not at all. My Dad towed a large caravan very successfully behind a Ford Cortina.
The idea that a caravan needs a 4X4 as an accessory is a relatively new one -- there were lottsa caravans in the 1970s, but very few 4X4s.
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>>but very few 4X4s
AHA !!!!!
So not really a problem then, considering that there are so few. You should switch your campaigning to Caravans and banning Alfa Romeos.
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but her campaign would be about 30 years too late?
(talk about horses and stable doors...)
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Horse campaign will be about 100 years too late...
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>>but very few 4X4s AHA !!!!! So not really a problem then, considering that there are so few
Quite right. In those days, 4X4s were used by farmers and horse-breeders and suchlike. Like tractors, they were a great tool for a specilaised job.
The problem came when their population multiplied a few thousand-fold. Fourbyfourus maximus then migrated out of its natural habitat onto the motorways and urban streets, where it is as out-of-place as vacca vulgaris.
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The idea that a caravan needs a 4X4 as an accessory is a relatively new one
I may be wrong, but my feeling is that over that time, cars have lost weight and caravans have gained.
We have also become more safety-concious, and demand a higher safety margin - as a child in the 1970s, I recall being put in the back of the car without any form of child seat. Or seatbelt, for that matter. As a parent now (in the 2000s?) I would rather lose a kidney* than let my children do that.
*as they say
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>>cars have lost weight
Good question. My own initial thoughts do not coincide with yours.
Certainly not ture for the Polo which has turned from being a sardine tin into a massive hatch. Nor the Mondeo - the new one of which is as big as a Granada.
The Maxi was regarded as a sensible car for a family - they now look particularly poxy - smaller than a MINI!
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>>>>cars have lost weight
Weight and size being two different things, I would suspect that you're right. They've got bigger, but I should think no heavier.
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And which is more important?
Increased size (length/width) presumably means reduced likelihood of flipping over, which must be important with a caravan. Widespread use of lower-profile tyres means that traction is better. Engines are bigger & more powerful. (Who would buy a car the size & weight of a Montego these days with a 1.3 litre engine & no power steering?)
A quick search of the breakdown gives:
Cavalier/Vectra
1981-88 14'4" x 5'6" 920-1091kg
1988-95 14'3" x ???? 1200kg
1995-02 14'8" x 5'7" 1185-1427kg
2002- 15'1" x 5'11
Audi 100/A6
1983-91 15'9" x 5'11" 1090kg
1991-97 15'9" x 5'10" 1325-1500kg
1997-04 15'9" x 6'4" 1390-1680kg
Sierra/Mondeo
to 1993 14'5" x 5'6" 969-1194kg
1993-00 14'8 x 6'4" 1235-1375kg
00 - on 15'6" x 6'4" ??
Surely this weight increase explains why a Vectra-type will still only do 30mpg despite huge increases in engine technology & in improvements in aerodynamics. (Plus of course the cat.)
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Yes, now I think about it I'm probably wrong re cars & weight. But you know me, never let mere facts get in the way of a good argument.
The caravans do seem bigger though. They used to be tiny (or tinny?) things shorter even than a Maxi. Now you could actually fit two adults inside them at the same time. Provided they were consenting, of course.
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The caravans do seem bigger though. They used to be tiny (or tinny?) things shorter even than a Maxi. Now you could actually fit two adults inside them at the same time. Provided they were consenting, of course.
Did any free adults ever consent to travel in a Maxi?
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Did any free adults ever consent to travel in a Maxi?
My parents did! My Dad bought a Maxi 2 L in about 1979 (or whenever it was that W suffix was the current letter). It was great, and a heck of an improvement on the horrid, unreliable, blue-pitted-vinyl seated Peugeot 204 that he had before. One of my earliest memories is how those *!?@!! seats used to feel against my legs on summer days...
The ol' Maxi was still tooling around, albeit looking very, very rusty, until about 3 years ago. Clearly an especially good example.
But we digress (sorry, mods).
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>>But we digress
If we didn't, the back room would grind to a halt more quickly than a caravan on its side...
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>>My Dad towed a large caravan very successfully behind a Ford Cortina.
Your Dad must have been a firm believer in the suggestion that 'To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive.'
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>>My Dad towed a large caravan very successfully behind a Ford Cortina. Your Dad must have been a firm believer in the suggestion that 'To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive.'
:)
No, he just didn't expect to be able to go fast when towing, which was fine, cos the caravan only made two (long) journeys a year.
He sometimes used to consider switching to a smaller caravan, which could be towed at more normal speeds behind an ordinary saloon car. Perfectly feasible, lots of friends did it, but the rest of the family vetoed the idea -- the idea of driving all round the countryside in caravan didn't appeal.
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>>the idea of driving all round the countryside in caravan didn't appeal
Nor to me... Glad you agree.
(I think I've missed your point there?)
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A few years back I borrowed a caravan for a two week holiday. I had a towbar fitted to my car and collected the 'van.
Coming down a bypass I noticed a very slight wobble but kept my calm and it went away - someone suggested I tried a stabiliser which I did. The difference was amazing. Solid as a rock overtaking lorries and other cars on the motorway. Never again did I have a slight wobble though I didn't overload the inside of the caravan as I feel that some fill em with bikes which can't help.
Anyway.....it was a fantastic holiday. We moved around the coast staying at different sites as & when we pleased, had hot water showers, barbecued, went out for meals, had mains power etc.. All in we had our own space at our chosen place. No regimental breakfasts in hotels (I still can't stand that cutlery-on-plate noise in a hushed breakfast room), not forced to eat out every night, not disappointed with a hotel on arrival.
Generally the caravans weren't parked on top of each other, some with hedges separating each plot. No noises from next door in a hotel room.
The only trouble I had with a caravan was people trying to overtake me for the sake of it or pulling out in front of me causing me to slam on the brakes (still no wobble). Idiots would overtake on a blind bend and I know they wouldn't if I was a lorry.
As for leaving a gap in front to make it easier for other cars to overtake I did...unless I intended to overtake whatever was holding me up. When do you see lorries leaving a gap for the same purpose? Far more of them year round.
I never did get a caravan for myself. No where to keep it really but now I have a toddler....she would love to run safely around a campsite. Can't do that in a hotel.
The cost difference between a hotel and caravan owning is not the point. The point is to do what you prefer.
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Just to add to this discussion here's an article from this week's Autoexpress.
At Full Chat
've never towed a caravan, slept in one or had the slightest inclination to do time in a small metal box fitted with a kitchenette and a gas canister. Frankly, I don't like them. When I go on holiday, I prefer to rent a hotel room rather than drag one along behind my car. At this point, you're probably expecting me to lay into caravanners. But instead, I'm going to praise them. These are salt-of-the-earth citizens who know what they want and what they like. What's more, they fight their corner and they do it well. At the end of last month, I heard one of those radio broadcasts which was designed to have a go at and ridicule drivers who tow caravans. But it backfired horribly, because an enthusiast wheeled out to be criticised and humiliated was having none of it.
I was driving at the time, so couldn't take notes, but I remember him saying he considered his little caravan to be a well equipped hotel suite which he can move at five minutes' notice. He also pointed out that it had a decent loo, power-shower, fridge, satellite television and air-conditioning. I don't know about you, but my house doesn't even have satellite TV or air-con!
The proud caravan man politely suggested that some critics were perhaps a little jealous of people such as him, and the freedoms and comforts he enjoys on the road. He then went on to spell out the sort of considerable expenditure 'vans and their occupants bring to local economies. Yes, caravanners often carry their own food and drink with them, but they also use restaurants, bars, tea shops, supermarkets and fuel stations - and that's in addition to the site fees they pay. So next time you curse a caravanner for clogging up the roads, bear in mind that he's spending a few quid and helping employment levels. And as with the rest of us, he's also paying through the nose for his road users' taxes (VED, fuel duty, VAT and the like), and as long as his vehicles are roadworthy, he is doing nothing untoward or illegal.
If you're still not convinced because you've got a haunting memory of being stuck behind a convoy of caravans on a narrow road where overtaking was impossible, just ask yourself how often such incidents actually occur. I live in an area where touring caravans regularly pass through on their way to south-east holiday resorts or the Channel ports, but I can't remember the last time one of them delayed my journey. Conversely, I'm held-up or jeopardised by heavy, left-hand-drive lorries on a daily basis.
I'm still not a fan, but - whether it's an elderly couple seeing a bit of the world or a young family on a budget having the only type of holiday they can afford - give the people who tow caravans a break. They're just like the rest of us - taxed road users quietly getting on with their lives. And although it might not always seem like it, they are genuinely trying to cause as little disruption to others as possible. Most important of all, never forget the caravanner is also a motorist. And that means he or she is one of us and should be treated accordingly. Mike Rutherford
Comments: 1 Article from: Auto Express
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