Firstly, depreciation does not just happen for no reason. It is a genuine loss in (perceived) value. Yes, a new car loses more value than an old car - that's because it is ageing, becoming less reliable, using up its warranty period and free AA cover, etc, etc.
Depreciation should not be looked at in isolation. For a true "cost of ownership" you need to add maintenance costs. This makes the steep deprecation curve less steep.
Initial savage drops in depreciation on some cars only exist because they are priced too high and there are fools glad to pay it.
I used to be of the school of thought "why spend £10k on a new car when you can get so much more second hand?" Then I bought an Alfa 156 for £7k, lost over £2k on depreciation in one year, on top of £800 repair bills. Now I've got a brand-new CTR with a flat depreciation curve as a)it was realistically priced and b) I did my research and paid bottom dollar. I may lose £6k in 3 years, but I'll have zero repair bills and ultimate satisfaction.
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Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
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Forgive me for being thick, but what's a CTR?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Mostly I agree with Mattster.
On the other hand, I've just gone out and bought a 96N reg 406 1.9 TD LX. I bought from a dealer as, while it may be fun to go to an auction, I don't have the time any more to wait for the right car to come along, or even to find the nearly right car and then make it perfect.
I paid £1,800 with a year's MoT, showing 96k and three owners, the first of which was probably Peugeot for six months. Each of the other two had it for over three years.
I'm not in a position to pay cash for anything more expensive, yet, but hopefully it'll last me two years without anything major. However, then I think that £1800 / 24 = £67 per month in depreciation, if it costs me £50 a month in repairs (hopefully not but if I'm unlucky) then I could get a new Clio for that and I do wonder if I've made the right decision.
At least the car was paid for on a debit card.
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Espada - CTR = Civic Type R.
And I should point out that £100 of my car was paid for by credit card so that I can invoke s.75 Consumer Credit Act, if necessary and I can be bothered...
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I'm not a fan of actual bangers - cars which are old and look like they shouldn't be on the road, etc.
Whilst I am against the idea of buying a new car and loosing thousands on depreciation, I still like the idea of a modern, well equipped car, which whilst it wont turn heads, is still respectable.
So that'll be me in the £3k sub 5 year old fully loaded Mondeo club :D
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"you need to add maintenance costs"
Indeed you do, which you will need to arrange with a main dealer (£70/hour + attitude) to preserve the warranty.
I get my oil changed at National Tyre (or do it myself, although that is more expensive) and get anything major done at a local independent, which is staffed by enthusiasts who charge £28/hour.
Of course, I appreciate the efforts of those who start the ball rolling by buying my cars new in the first place...
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I thought Citroen made a CTR?.
Lately I have been scouring Ebay for a banger, just the thought of buying a functional, road legal car for less than a pair of trainers appeals to me. L and M reg Mondeos with MOT going for less than 150 pounds, I can't resist.
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Of course some bangers need no maintenance, you buy it for £150 with as much MoT as possible, run it without any servicing at all and then sell it for £50 at the end.
I'm just glad there are lots of ways to run a car and we have the freedom to choose.
Gareth
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Perhaps we need to define 'banger'.
There's the car that Garethj has run for a year, and is now selling for £50. That's a real old banger (desperate for an oil change).
There's the car that Garethj is about to buy for £150. Probably one careful lady owner, and full service history. Is that really a banger?
There's my car, which cost 5 times that, and I'm afraid that whilst it is well under £1,000, it's a luxury car with relatively few miles on the clock that is kept well maintained. Is that really a banger?
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Good point.
I define a banger as a car which costs an insignificant amount to buy, you spend even less on while you own and you don't think twice about scrapping if the bills get too high. Anything over a 2 pound air freshener would be too big a bill.
I suppose a Maclaren SLR would be a banger to Branson.
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Whereas I think 'Bangernomics' refers to running an elderly car in a responsible fashion.
But then my car cost an insignificant amount to buy (£750); I shall certainly spend less on it in its lifetime than it cost; I shall certainly scrap it if it risks having a bill anything near its value. I still think an Audi 100 is a luxury car, not a banger, despite fitting your criteria.
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my car cost an insignificant amount to buy (£750);
Any chance of accidentally dropping an insignificant amount of cash my way?
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There you are, patently. Dropped your way.
In exchange for the insignificant amount of cash you spent on your last car...
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I paid almost as much for a second-hand, ride-on lawn mower that isn't a fraction as comfortable to drive.
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Interesting situation when it comes to insurance though.
Parents ran two 13-yr old Hondas in A1 condition. Worth maybe £2000 between them. Annual insurance bill (due to where they live near a load of scrotes) is about £1,500. Full no claims discount.
So, sold the larger one and bought a Forester which suits them very well and no change to the insurance, but the car is 4 years old not 13 so feel less bad about all that insurance premium. Kept the other one, as it is the only car my mother feels truly comfortable driving in. Probably worth it for that purpose.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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>>but the car is 4 years old not 13 so feel less bad about all that insurance premium.
But it works the other way. With a worthless car, then the only claim that is worthwhile is a good third party claim. With a valuable car it is more likely to lose your your ncb & increase your policy for future years.
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But it's still expensive. Why pay £600 to insure a car worth only £1,000? Better to pay £700 and insure a car worth £9,000. Better value for money, as with the first case the car can be written off easily by the insurers and only get £1,000, with the latter, chances of being written off much slimmer and it is get more money back.
In the event of a write off for the Subaru (£9,000) its easy to find a good example of a 4-yr old Forester. Try finding an excellent 13-yr old Honda for £1,000 - almost impossible, and the history is likely to be far sketchier.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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There you are, patently. Dropped your way.
Gosh thanks. I'll pick it up later, if that's ok.
In exchange for the insignificant amount of cash you spent on your last car...
That'll be the dinky toy for one of the kids. Just deduct it - no problem.
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Absolutely fine. I could come your way. What about The Turf at 7pm? Or the King's Arms? I think I've found the right toy car - it was a Porsche wasn't it.
tinyurl.com/5lowe
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Absolutely fine. I could come your way. What about The Turf at 7pm? Or the King's Arms? I think I've found the right toy car - it was a Porsche wasn't it. tinyurl.com/5lowe
Bad news, mapmaker - it was a Porsche but didn't you remember I buy new not off ebay:
tinyurl.com/5qe6d
I'm probably working late tonight* - can you make it out to Oxford?
*all this time wasted in the BR.....
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Where were you MM? 7pm came and went.... sniff... never been stood up before...
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The back bar of the Kings. And you were...? I was looking out for a chap with a big fighter pilot moustache. No luck. Which reminds me:
Q: How do you know if there's an RAF officer in a bar?
A: He'll come to tell you!
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There's my car, which cost 5 times that, and I'm afraid that whilst it is well under £1,000, it's a luxury car with relatively few miles on the clock that is kept well maintained. Is that really a banger?
hmm, that sounds to me more like a good car, bought cheaply.
To my mind, the hallmark of a true banger is that it has something noticeably wrong with it. Maybe cosmetic, like dents and bashes and unmatched paint jobs ... or maybe mechanical, like the 12yo Nissan with no reverse gear which I once owned.
YMMV :)
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>>a good car, bought cheaply
Well, an elderly luxury car that is now worthless. Banger, or not? I'll find you one just the same if you like. Off eBay it'd be even cheaper.
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tinyurl.com/62eaw
Now that IS a banger...
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tinyurl.com/62eaw Now that IS a banger...
I'm tempted to disagree, cos the Audi-with-bramble-pack appears not to be running at all. To my mind that makes it a wreck not a banger.
My idea of a banger is that it still goes however unreliably
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"This Car was running 6 years ago"
LOL!
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It's had 50 hits in the last 2 hours...
Amazing what you cannot sell for even 99p (and it will cost him £20 (or whatever) as it's a car).
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It's had 50 hits in the last 2 hours... Amazing what you cannot sell for even 99p (and it will cost him £20 (or whatever) as it's a car).
Up to £102 now.
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So I see.
Whereas this whole car went for only £30. tinyurl.com/44rl8
I presume he didn't have the V5, but a running, working car must be worth more than £30...
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And now back to £2.
Looks like a little bit of attempted shilling going on there...
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>>Audi-with-bramble-pack
On-board refreshments.
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sounds to me as though this thread should have been called
"lets bash people who buy new cars thread"
personally i wouldnt drive a banger, i work hard why shouldnt i have a new car?? i couldnt be doing with all that trawling through papers and the internet to find a car and then go and look and find its a banger malarky my time is precious.
Although i do agree the depreciation on a new car is a lot i keep teh car long enough not too care too much about it.
I love the fact a get a car thats all mine with exactly what i want on it, that hasnt been ragged by some boyracer, i love the fact if something goes wrong i can take it back so my shiny dealership and they deal with it and i loooove the fact my new mini gets 5 years servicing for £100.
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i love the fact if something goes wrongi can take it back so my shiny dealership and they deal with it and i loooove the fact my new mini gets 5 years servicing for £100.
Hmmm. Nowt to do with paying well over the odds in the first place? I have a teensy suspicion that the marketing types at BMW had this planned when they came up with the space cadet prices for the "Maxi".
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>>i work hard why shouldnt i have a new car?? i couldnt be doing with all that trawling through papers and the internet to find a car
Absolutely right, I hope lots of people keep buying new cars.
Even if it was a new car I'd still spend a bit of time in the newspapers / web researching the best deal though!
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Like some of those before me here, I can afford a new car, want the pleasure of it being all mine and nobody's cast off.
More importantly though and I don't think mentioned before is the fact (IMHO) that a car represents the freedom to go anywhere at any time. Yes, I know only on roads etc. but you know what I mean.
What's the point of running an old heap that doesn't let you go when you want without the nagging fear of a breakdown.
I've just come back from 2000 miles in France - opened the bonnet just the once and yes the engine was still there! (It was to check the oil and fill the screen washer bottle).
Speaking of "freedom" - crossing the channel was a problem with delays both ways on Seacat - I'm annoyed too - paid £163 for a really good deal when booked in March - fare is £100 now!
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Oops! I forgot to add this question to those who probably regularly use oil. The 27000 mile engine needed around 750ml of oil for thr 2000 miles - 1000 miles at 80-85mph - ish, and 1000 on minor roads at around 50-60mph.
This seems a bit much to me, or is it in the right ball park?
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Should have got yourself a nice 2nd hand motor. Already run-in, so doesn't lose any oil any more ;)
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Is it due an oil-change soon? I find my car uses a little oil but more towards the time when an oil-change is due. I guess as the oil degrades it gets a bit thinner and seeps through gaps a bit easier.
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You might just have a point E34kid. I didn't realise it, but the last oil change was 6000 miles ago in January. So maybe the oil does get thinner. Presumably too the oil was hot and so thinner for the entire 2000 miles rather than for say just 50% or even 25% of the time with my usual London stop-start motoring.
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My 120k banger, Dulwich, has used about a pint over 3k of largely motorway miles.
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i work hard why shouldnt i have a new car??
Absolutely no reason whatsoever! If you want to run a shiny new car then good luck to you, and enjoy the experience. It's not my cup of tea - I think I've got better things to do with the money, but by all means keep on buying new cars so that some of us can keep on buying second hand ones...
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