It is a fine line between driving a car that is not smart enough and one that is too flash. That is why, as a small valuation practice when we see lots of lower value property owned usually by local traders, it is important to give the impression of quality without making them feelas though they are being ripped off.
So, I drive a Volvo (S80 four years old) - even brand new not too flash (unless its an XC90) and my partner drives a eight year old Lexus LS400. Yes, big luxurious cars and expensive when new, but the clients know enough about cars that they understand that we don't buy these new so don't waste (their) money on fripperies.
The alternative is buying a new mass market car (say top spec Mondeo) but the depreciation is awful and after three years you can't tell the difference between a Ghia X or a LX and turing up in an old Mondeo would give the wrong impression, when we are partners in a successful firm.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I have a tale to tell about 'face' and the way a person's possessions are viewed in this country, in accordance with their perceived station. I used to work as a Training Adviser years ago and I learnt of a colleague, who worked in another part of the country in the same job, and who had scooped a big win on the pools. When the chance came along for him to be able to buy his own car for business use, instead of being given a car, he was told in no uncertain terms, that he was expected to provide a car that fitted his station, in case his clients got the wrong idea and took umbrage, if he turned up in something too flash.
Coming back to the central point of my initial post, my brother's friend is a person who has bought into the 'face', as a reward for a successful business, and is now beginning to wonder if he hasn't paid too much for the Mercs. Is it somewhat akin to a case of the king's clothes? Personally, I am quite happy to save a few thousand pounds and 'put up' with those terribly unreliable and badly made Citroens. Yes, I know all about the depreciation, but bought second hand and kept for a long time, it really doesn't come into play.
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Good grief, Espada.
I read your posting with bemused astonishment. No wonder Britain is considered the most snobbish, status obsessed, class - ridden country in the world!
Are people really so obsessed with their own preconceptions of what others might think of their choice of car?
Why can't people just be individuals and choose a car for their own needs?
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>>Are people really so obsessed with their own preconceptions of what others might think of their choice of car?
When getting a piece of work depends on how the other person view you, you cannot be too careful.
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>>Are people really so obsessed with their own preconceptions of what others might think of their choice of car? When getting a piece of work depends on how the other person view you, you cannot be too careful.
I would take the view that said professional is so overpaid (or so overcharges) they can afford a car far higher spec than is necessary. So they don't need my hard-earned cash.
Nothing personal here, but as a prospective customer that's the view I take.
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Terry
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>>Are people really so obsessed with their own preconceptions of what others might think of their choice of car? When getting a piece of work depends on how the other person view you, you cannot be too careful.
Indeed. I would say park around the corner, but in my new business i can't do that. I am starting out in business with two others who have A6's. Because of the perception and other nonsense, i can see that sooner or later the Skoda is going to have to go. Not through choice but what you have to do, in the same way that we wear suits to work, not a pair of shorts and t shirt.
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Personally I wear a t-shirt for work most of the time because it's the quality of the work I deliver that counts not what I wear or what I drive. I get to spend the saving on excellent wine, among other things. I count myself very, very lucky, but I'm another one who would not trust someone I consider flash trying to sell me something (or indeed in any circumstances).
Incidentally the van-based Berlingo is designed to be driven all day and is therefore perfectly comfortable over 200 miles. For pity's sake all five full-size seats have a dedicated adjustable aircon vent in this "van."
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Incidentally the van-based Berlingo is designed to be driven all day and is therefore perfectly comfortable over 200 miles.
You try convincing my colleagues of that. In fact, even I cannot travel more than 40 miles without stopping and taking a backache break.
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I'm quite surprised to hear that as I find the seats in My Pug Partner very good indeed. There are few cars I'd be as happy to drive long distances in, especially at the price.
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Having driven both the Berlingo Van and Pug Partner, although virtually identical, I did find the seats more comfy in the pug.
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>>I did find the seats more comfy in the pug.
Curiouser and curiouser. I'm also wondering if the car versions are differently provided in the seating department, though I can't see it being significantly different.
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Incidentally the van-based Berlingo is designed to be driven all day
Wasn't the original Berlingo van car derived (from the ZX)?.
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Indeed. I would say park around the corner, but in my new business i can't do that. I am starting out in business with two others who have A6's. Because of the perception and other nonsense, i can see that sooner or later the Skoda is going to have to go. Not through choice but what you have to do, in the same way that we wear suits to work, not a pair of shorts and t shirt.
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Perhaps many of the people you meet think it's nonsense too. It is the king's clothes syndrome, in that nobody wants to to be the first to admit that is nonsense to judge someone by the car they drive.
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If Citroens are so wonderful why are sales down this year in a growing market, both in the UK and in Europe ?
Why not save even more money and buy a Hyundai or Kia instead.
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If Citroens are so wonderful why are sales down this year in a growing market, both in the UK and in Europe ? Why not save even more money and buy a Hyundai or Kia instead.
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Probably because a lot of people get put off by the general perception of Citroens and the bad press for French cars in general. Personally, nothing currently available from Hyundai or Kia would persuade me to change from a C5 or a Picasso. The only option missing from the Picasso range, currently, is an auto box on the diesels.
There isn't a massive saving anyway, not when you compare the spec. As far as the diesel engines are concerned, there is just no comparison, as the HDIs are amongst the best available anywhere, in terms of refinement.
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You are all right - well some of you!!
I would love not to have to 'put on a show', but as a professional, who frequently meets lawyers and accountants and bank managers (who all wear suits) I have to match, otherwise you have no credability. I simply cannot 'wear a T-shirt' or drive the motoring equivalent, and I can't park around the corner, because I need immediate access to the gear in my boot (clipboard, tape measure etc etc).
As it happens, most days I don't wear a suit as the property I inspect would soil a suit very quickly. But I still wear something appropriate and therefore drive something appropriate. I would not expect a junior surveyor aged 25 to drive a Merc or BMW, but I would expect a 50-year old surveyor, likely to be a partner or director, earning over £80,000pa to drive something that when new cost over £25,000.
If you engage a builder, you would like him to turn up in a reasonable van rather than a shed, because you hope that this is a refelction on the quality of the work his will do. Equally, you would rather he didn't turn up in a brand new Mercedes van, becuase that would indicate that he is making an excessive profit. Similarly, with my work. I have to be seen to be suitably dressed and arrive in a suitable vehicle, otherwise, I am either no good or overcharging.
It's funny actually, that because most laywers, accountants and bank managers do their job by driving desks, they appear to be far less car status orientated that surveyors, who througout the country, are known for their in-depth knowledge of badge snobbery. Its not just photocopier salesmen who have forced the 3-series to become more popular than the Mondeo.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Having been in the business, you would be better engaging a builder on reputation and recommendation, than consider what his van is like.
Just another example of considering style more important than substance.
Having said that, however, it is reputation and recommendation that sells a lot of cars in this country, which is why BMW and Mercedes do so well, but so do Ford. Ford cars have sold well in this country for decades, on the basis that they couldn't be beaten for value for money, and anyone could service a Ford, couldn't they? They are still looked on in that light today by many of the great British public. However good they have made their range today, they were not always so great in comparison with the competition, yet cars such as the Fiesta and Escort always sold well in Britain.
On the other hand French cars have always been considered to be unreliable and of poor build quality, in general terms.
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Yes of course you would engage a builder by reputation and word of mouth, but when you see him you want further proof of his suitability and whether you like or not, in this country, especially in the cities, its the vehicle that provides this extra proof.
The last time I employed a builder who drive a shed, the job was awful, took far too long and needed re-doing. The next builder drove a five year old Landie Defender. Good price for the job, decent quality and a pleasure to work with. Another builder I asked to quote, drove a brand new Merc Van. Took the plans and never heard from him again.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Yes of course you would engage a builder by reputation and word of mouth, but when you see him you want further proof of his suitability and whether you like or not, in this country, especially in the cities, its the vehicle that provides this extra proof. The last time I employed a builder who drive a shed, the job was awful, took far too long and needed re-doing. The next builder drove a five year old Landie Defender. Good price for the job, decent quality and a pleasure to work with. Another builder I asked to quote, drove a brand new Merc Van. Took the plans and never heard from him again. -- Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
A car/van proves his suitability? Really?
What would you say about a plumber who drives a Corsa van (diesel)? Would he be any good do you think? Actually, he is one of the best craftsmen I have ever met, but I already knew that before I saw his van, as I trusted the people who had recommended him. His van is incidental I think.
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But I would expect a plumber to drive a Corsa diesel van. So it proves my point!!
It not me being silly or snobby; its the way life works in the country. In France it probably has no merit at all, but they lead a different life, some may say better, but certainly different and you might say that a plumber driving a shed has a certain 'je ne sais qua' that in Britain would brand him as a likely rogue or incompetant.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I don't think it proves anything, except what you expect. I am sure there are plenty of dodgy plumbers who drive Corsa vans, or something similar.
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Probably because a lot of people get put off by the general perception of Citroens and the bad press for French cars in general. Personally, nothing currently available from Hyundai or Kia would persuade me to change from a C5 or a Picasso. The only option missing from the Picasso range, currently, is an auto box on the diesels. There isn't a massive saving anyway, not when you compare the spec. As far as the diesel engines are concerned, there is just no comparison, as the HDIs are amongst the best available anywhere, in terms of refinement.
For most people diesel engines are not worth the extra money. French cars if anything have to good a perception for what they are, i'm sure that their sales will fall in the next few years just like VW's have in the USA.
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"I need immediate access to the gear in my boot (clipboard, tape measure etc etc)."
Surely you ought to have a hand held computer thingy and a laser measuring thingy otherwise I might get the wrong impression and think you spent all your money on your car rather than investing in the latest technology for your business????!!!! :)
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Oh dear Oh der, all you believers in technology!!!
Of course I have the laser stuff, but I write my notes on paper. It is far too hard using a Palm and paper doesn;t corrupt or crash!!
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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