In terms of reliability most owners seem to be either very pleased with their cars or very dissatisfied. I don't know if this is because cars are either very well or very badly built or because we tend to see things in very black or white terms.
My Mazda 323 has had 3 faults in its 5 year life (ignition coil, clutch switch, broken bit of driver's door lock). It also has a couple of intermittent interior trim rattles. Does this make it very reliable, unreliable, or quite reliable (my view)?
Does anyone else own a 'quite reliable' car?
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My car is quite reliable (don't laugh)
It is an Alfa Romeo (I said DON'T) 145 cloverleaf. I have owned it for just over two years, and it is now 6 years old.
In that time it has suffered one 'non-running' fault. A temp sensor failure costing £30. Aside from that it has had one or two little niggles, the only one I can currently remember being the rear wiper motor needing replacement.
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You could read the Golf MkV buying advice thread for a start..:-)
There are a number of surveys done annually, including the J D Power one published by Top Gear and a certain well known consumer magazine's version based on members' experiences (you'll have to guess which consumer magazine I mean)...:-))
It might surprise you to know that one particular model that its owners would recommend more than any other as a good, reliable buy to their friends and family is the Skoda Octavia (at least 90 per cent of such owners in fact).
Mazda, in which Ford has a big stake, has long enjoyed a reputation for reliability, in common with most Japanese models. So the fact that one of its recent smaller models was a rebadged Ford Fiesta may also prove a surprise.
If you are satisfied with your 323 - and its list of faults is, frankly, miniscule - why not have a look at the new Mazda models? They seem pretty popular in my area.
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I don't think he's after a new car Stuart, he certainly hasn't said so. Just interested to hear other peoples experiences I think.
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I don't think he's after a new car Stuart, he certainly hasn't said so. Just interested to hear other peoples experiences I think.
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That's right - I'm not looking to change cars at the moment. The reason for my question is that I'm struck by how we tend to polarise in our views of cars - there are lots of backroom posts about extremes of (un)reliability. Maybe it is because no one bothers to post about the middle ground?
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Maybe it is because no one bothers to post about the middle ground?
Exactly. What Stuartli says about people only ever posting bad experiences is very true.
In fact, in the case of Alfa's it goes a step further. People who have never had one, and have no experience feel compelled to post to say how bad and unreliable they are too! ;)
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I did realise that, hence my second comment as well.
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It might surprise you to know that one particular model that its owners would recommend more than any other as a good, reliable buy to their friends and family is the Skoda Octavia (at least 90 per cent of such owners in fact).
Does anyone else feel that at least a part of this might be down to these owners feeling the need to justify their buying of a Skoda, and all the baggage that goes along with that?
Having said that, I have to admit to being rather protective of my Alfa's honour too, but when you see so many people laying into them because 'everyone knows they rust and the electrics are bad' it's hard not to react.
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There's very little "baggage" with a Skoda - or a Seat for that matter - these days.
Most car wise people now seem to appreciate that they can acquire a car that is virtually, in all but name, a VW and usually with both a slightly superior specification and a lower initial price.
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As I mentioned before in the forum, many taxi drivers in my area love the Octavia, especially the estate, for its reliability, room and build quality.
In fact most of the drivers travel around 200 miles up to Glasgow to take advantage of some particularly keen pricing on Octavias and use the return journey as part of the engines' running-in period.
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Friend of mine had a Mazda and the ABS went haywire, cost him an arm and a leg : he may have been unlucky to be fair.
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Just one small point. As with most consumer goods or services, people who have purchased reliable products or been given excellent service rarely offer praise publically as it is the least they expect.
However, those who experience the opposite are usually quick to speak out or flock to forums such as this to forcefully make their complaints and express their anger.
The result is, all too often, a lack of balance and fairness as, regretfully, the moaners' voices are mostly to the fore.
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In my case, my opinion of how reliable my car is ('94 Passat) seems to come in phases. In the past 10 years it has never let me down but it has had phases where bits have either broken (on it's third drivers door elec window motor) or worn out, in my opinion, prematurely. At times I think the build quality is not what it perhaps should be (the VW myth) but then it goes for ages without anything going wrong and I then think it's very reliable and never think that it might let me down. To some extent I think regular maintenance can avoid many problems (failed belts, hoses etc)
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In answer to your question; yes, quite a few.
There are a number of surveys that are available: The J D Power league table, published by What Car. Which magazine publish an independent (no ads, or sponsorship taken) survey and Warranty Direct publish league tables on those cars which have been insured by them under their warranty scheme.
As a generalisation, Japanese cars come out best, Italian and French cars come out worst. This is not a personal opinion, but an overall assessment of several thousand cars - but, the generalisation is mine.
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Ford Fiesta '97 to date. A pair of brake discs and a battery to but you could class both these items as "consumables".
Ford Orion '92 to '97. A wheel bearing and hub and again a battery.
Ford Mondeo II '01 to '04. Perfect
Ford Mondeo II revised model. Naughty, as it has had a replacement Oil Sensor and EGR valve. But otherwise as good as the last.
Mazda MX5. Perfect from the day it rolled out of the dealership.
Don't wish to discuss the Alfa, Fiats and VW Golf we have previously owned.
There are no surprises with the Mazda as they have a bullet proof reputation. The puzzle is Ford. They never seem to appear to do well in reliability surveys, yet we have owned seven and they have all been spot on. Seven cars from the same manufacturer would suggest they are doing something right, wouldn't it? Maybe it is all about image. Certainly there is a suggetion of myth around the durability of VW, yet the Golf is probably one of the most desirable cars around. Mine was most certainly not, hence my love affair with Ford.
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VWs generally had below average warranty repair costs in 2003; Warranty Direct Reliability index. Link:
www.reliabilityindex.co.uk
Apart from this website's guide to various makes and models' good and bad points there's also, for instance, the Top Gear equivalent at:
www.topgear.com/content/carknowledge.jsp
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Wait a minute - I dont' know about the other cars but the Ford Focus breakdown id IDENTICAL to HJ's!
Oh dear oh dear
Adam
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Scrap that:
"Some of the information within this database is collated from external sources and may contain third party opinion, but every effort has been made to ensure its accuracy."
I missed it at the very bottom.
Sorry....
Adam
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You'll find a lot of websites have links or indirect links to HJ - not surprising really...:-)
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Dave, you had a good one. I was not so lucky:
Fiesta Ghia April '97
External air control motor failed under Guarantee -- the garage took the dash out 4 times before they fixed it!
Rest of faults outside guarantee
1) Rear wiper worked only sometimes and then only after about 3 minutes of being switched on.
2) Boot push release also worked intermittently
3) Needed new front discs (due to steel disk eccentricity) at 28000 March 2000
4) Central locking failed -- due to faulty contact material on push-on connectors.
5) New master cylinder required as back brakes were no longer balancing for an MOT
Rear wheel brake cylinder 39000 2001 -- the usual, an oil leak.
Sold July '03, having fixed all the faults.
Wear and tear: New exhaust 2001 39000 mls, brake linings etc.
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"People who have never had one,(an Alfa) and have no experience feel compelled to post to say how bad and unreliable they are too! ;)"
Does the same apply to Citroens? I keep hearing about how terrible French electrics are but having owned 5 I have never had more than the occasional, and I stress occasional, bulb go. But then I have never owned an XM........
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My experiences from 1980:
Ford Granada 2.3: no faults in 50k.
Volvo 740: ditto in 40k
Jaguar XJ6: rust and overheating in 15k
BL Mondeo: wipers, engine ignition, paint in 12k,rust
Mercedes 260e: ignition lock, cracked front suspension arm in 70k
Sierra 1.8: no faults in 45k
Rover 800, numerous and repeated faults too many to list: the most unreliable piece of junk I have ever had the misfortune to drive.
BMW320i: no faults in 20k
BMW318i: no faults in 45k
Audi A4 TDI: aircon, suspension arm bushes, cambelt idler (after replaced), catalyst. in 30k
Fiesta 1.6 Ghia: no faults in 15k
Peugeot 1.4 D: 2x suspension arms, clutch release lever,acclerator cable : SMBO's 43k in 10 years.
BMW and Ford stand out as very good. Anything by BL/Rover was totally unacceptable.
madf
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BL Mondeo?
Montego?
Some people who, apparently, had very few problems with their examples:
www.reviewcentre.com/reviews3946.html
No, I didn't believe it either...
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In addition to Which? magazine I find the German motoring publications very useful.
The ADAC (German AA) produce a regular newstand publication which uses data from their breakdown callouts and car inspections. They rate the cars according to breakdown rate and also list common failures and years affected. The data should be sound since it is based on a very large data set and adjusted to take account of the number of a particular make/model on the roads. It seems to be very accurate according to feedback, and is well respected in Germany.
Reliability is rated on an approx five-point scale from 'poor' to 'very good'.
Toyota, Nissan, Honda etc. stand out as very good. VW, Ford fall into the 'quite reliable' catagory (along with BMW and MB). Most things French and Italian fall into the 'poor' catagory (along with Rover and Mini).
Another good publication which comes out as a 'special' a couple of times a year uses data from the German equivalent of the MoT test. All cars are listed in various age bands and the specific failure items are listed. There is a lot of very detailed data and one can see very clear patterns - e.g. for some makes/models almost no cars will fail on brakes, but 25% will fail on lights etc. - this is obviously useful data if inspecting a used car.
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