Hello all.
I hope someone can give me some advice regarding my 1999 facelift Omega 2.5 V6 GLS saloon. I bought the car just under a year ago from a Vauxhall main dealer with just over 30,000 miles on the clock. At the time I paid extra for a full 2 years of Network Q warranty on the car. The deal when I bought it was supposed to include a full service and multi point Network Q check. Ever since I collected the car the engine has emitted a very high pitch, high frequency rattle when hot and under any load. It is not a loud noise, but is outstandingly irritating. Also, when starting the car from cold, or when applying the power after slowing down in a high gear (engine hot) it gives out a short sharp hard rattle/clatter which to my ear sounds like 'piston slap'. This only happens for a slip second, but it is severe and can be felt by passengers through the floorpan of the car!!. It sometimes does this when hot starting too. I have sent the car back to dealer many times and every time they say that there is nothing they can do. They cannot find a 'hard fault' with the engine, but the Omega mechanic (who I have great respect for) at the dealership has told me that it is the only Omega 2.5 V6 that he has ever heard make these noises. He acknowledges that it is not right, and guesses that the ECU mapping could be to blame, but says that on the late Omega's the mapping cannot be altered. I am further annoyed by the fact that he told me the car is overdue for a cambelt (it has now covered 44,000 miles). This should have been replaced before the car was despatched with a Network Q warranty and service surely. I have had no luck with this car it has needed a new exhaust back-box (replaced under warranty) and two new headlamps because of water ingress (again, under warranty)- even the drivers door is showing signs of rusting from the inside along the bottom. I have again told the dealership and they say that they are 'awaiting a decision' from Vauxhall. After many happy years of Senator ownership, this is not the Vauxhall-Opel flagship that I was expecting. Am I within my rights to ask for a replacement car or a refund?. Any comments will be gratefully received.
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Any comments gratefully received? well sorry but you wont like these.
Firstly, kill your respect for the mechanic. He is talking out of his seat warmer. The mapping can not be wrong. It cant be changed so how can yours be different from every other 2.5v6? It cant be corrupted. Its hard coded on a chip. However check to see if the car has been re-chipped with an after market one.
Secondly re the cam belt, you bought the car at 30k with a full service history and I doubt that cam belts need to be changed at 30k. If however they need to be changed at 36, 40 or 44k whatever, thats YOUR job, YOUR normal running cost.
Re the Back box, 5 years for an exhaust back box? thats not bad, suprised Vuaxhall changed it free.
The headlamps? so it sound like a manufacturing problem that vauxhall have fixed again for free.
The door rust, cant comment on this it may be the result of accident damage or repair or anything. See if the garage will fix it.
All in all it sounds to me like the dealership has behaved admirably and responsibly. This is a 5 years old car we are talking about.
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"All in all it sounds to me like the dealership has behaved admirably and responsibly. This is a 5 years old car we are talking about"......
You are correct - I do not like your comments!.
So you would be happy with a rattling/clattering car that you paid full retail + extra NQ warranty + full service for would you?. - I think not.
The headlamps were full of water the day I took delivery AFTER the Network Q checks - should I have accepted this?.
The exhaust 'box baffles rattled the day I took delivery after the Network Q checks - should I have accepted this?
The deal when I bought the car included (on paper) the next full service which was 40,000 miles. This service includes a cambelt change which was not done. Certain other aspects of the 40,000 mile service were also not done (brake fluid...ect). I paid for this work to be done ON TOP of purchase. - How can that work now be my 'running costs' when I have paid for it less than 12 months ago??.
This may be "admirable and responsible" for a Renault dealer, but it is certainly not what I expect or am used to from Vauxhall....!!.
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"This may be "admirable and responsible" for a Renault dealer, but it is certainly not what I expect or am used to from Vauxhall....!!."
Then Sir, may I respectfully suggest you get used to it, alas Vauxhall dealers are no better than Renault dealers.
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The deal when I bought the car included (on paper) the next full service which was 40,000 miles. This service includes a cambelt change which was not done. Certain other aspects of the 40,000 mile service were also not done (brake fluid...ect). I paid for this work to be done ON TOP of purchase.
A service (whether full or part) only covers oil and filter changes. Anything else like handbrake adjustment, cambelt change, brake fluid change, coolant change, brake pad change, etc has always been extra on top of the standard service charge.
You bought the car at 30,000 miles - 10,000 miles before the cambelt was recommended to be changed. For quite some time now Vauxhall *advised* that cambelt changes are now due at 40,000 miles, and not 80,000 miles. Four Vauxhall dealerships that I\'ve recently been in have this clearly stated in their service reception area. Yourself, having been a Vauxhall owner, I would have thought you\'d had been aware of it?
So you would be happy with a rattling/clattering car that you paid full retail extra NQ warranty full service for would you?. - I think not.
I have to agree with some of RF\'s comments. They replaced the headlights and exhaust for free - so what\'s the problem? Surely you must have had a test drive of the car beforehand?
I\'ve just purchased a 5 month old Vectra. The suspension at the rear had a creaking sound, and one of the doors had a slight dent in it. Like your purchase, the faults were rectified for free before taking delivery.
As for your rattling engine, it *could* just be the hydraulic valve lifters clattering. As it\'s only done 30,000 miles in 5 years, maybe the previous owner didn\'t have the oil changed regularly (10,000 miles or yearly - which ever falls earliest) and has gummed them up slightly. Ask the garage to pour in some Top End Treatment, which is available from Forté Lubricants. Being a Vaux dealer, they *should* have some as most of them carry Forté products.
(DD. Vauxhall owner since 1986.)
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I don't want to get involved in the debate as to whether Renault dealers are worse than Vauxhall, or vice versa. I've little doubt that both are very poor and have no intention of ever exposing my wallet to either marque.
According to Autodata the cambelt change interval on a 1999 2.5 GM engine is 40000 miles or four years, *whichever comes first*. Thus, a 1999 car should have had a cambelt change by now. They also state that the tensioner pulley must be replaced at the same time.
When buying 'Network Q' you are paying through the nose. For the extra money I would expect them to give the car a very thorough inspection and replace any item that didn't look like it would last at least 6 months. This is what we used to do when we sold cars. The only exception was tyres, which we didn't change if they would pass the MoT. OTOH, the dealer did replace the defective items under warranty, so you can't grumble too much.
The noise you describe is classic combustion chamber knock. Check that the knock sensor is working (no fault codes) and check that you have the correct plugs in. Personally I would stick with NGK's - from memory I think the GM 2.5V6 takes BKR6EK, but check in the catalogue. Check the plugs - if the nose is glossy or burnt then that indicates overheating of the plug - are the plugs correctly torqued in the head? (use a 3/8" drive calibrated torque wrench set at about 22lbs. I assume the car is otherwise OK and not overheating?
If everything checks out OK then move to one heat range cooler on the plugs.
Anyway, I'd better get back to the Polo timing belt job......
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I would have to agree with some of the above. It was quite correct that the lights were replaced under warranty, but exhausts are often excluded as service items so I would say you got more than you may have been entitled to on that score.
You are expecting far too much by believing they should change the cambelt for you. You may well have paid for a "full service" at purchase, but this would only have included items appropriate to the mileage at the time. The cambelt was not due then, so it wasn't done.
I agree with Aprilia, it sounds like 'pinking'. It may be that the engine is somewhat coked up due to the low milege. Check the items Aprilia suggests and also try a bottle of decoke in the tank. I found Slick 50 Petrol Treatment effective in this respect on my wifes car, but it's likely your dealer will sell the equivalent Forte product. Also try 3 to 5 consequtive tanks of Shell Optimax petrol at the same time.
Also make sure you follow HJs advice regards oil changes in the future (max 6k or 6 months) and use the best oil you can afford.
I really do not think you have been hard done by, though I'm surprised such a great mechanic hasn't suggested the knocking to you.
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Quite why RF and Dynamic Dave are asking what the problem is beggars belief. If I had bought (which I have several times) a Network Q Vauxhall V6 Omega from a main dealer and it was rattling and clattering I would be most annoyed - as indeed senatorman is. A test-drive of the car prior to purchase is totally irrelevant. A fault/noise like the one described can only become noticed by the owner days/weeks into ownership. And another thing - Network Q pre-delivery servicing states that ALL advised and required service work is undertaken prior to the car being released to the customer. Regardless of what anybodies opinion is, the cambelt SHOULD have been changed before release. If the car had gone to the customer with 2 years NQ warranty, and the belt had failed weeks into ownership what then?. I suppose in RF and DD's opinion that would just be tough luck?. No - Network Q just does not work like that. You have to keep the car dealer serviced to the letter to keep the NQ warranty valid, that is why when the cars are sent out to customers the service records are inspected and ANY shortfalls rectified before release. I'm sure that senatorman appreciates that the dealership have completed all of the simple work the car required (lamps, exhaust...ect) but it must be very frustrating to have a fault like this on a very expensive main dealer retail car. I fully AGREE with what Aprilia has said above, but one must be a bit careful when suggesting possible faults to Vauxhall service staff - it could look like 'teaching grandma to suck eggs'!!. I can't help but wonder why in 1993/4 Opel never replaced the superb Senator range with a car as good and strong as that model undoubtedly was. I had Senator's from 1979 to 1996 and NEVER had a single bad one!!.
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Agree with your comments, landed-gentry. When you pay top-dollar then everything should be spot on. A five-year old V6 *should* have had a cambelt change as part of the normal service schedule - and that's according to GM.
I also agree about Senator's. They really were fine cars - GM Europe's Mercedes competitor. The Omega is a poor substitute.
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Assuming that the car was 4 years old when you bought it, and that the Vauxhall service schedule says 4 years *or* 40k, the cambelt should have been changed by Network Q prior to delivering you the car. It's as easy as that, by not doing this they have broken their own service schedule specification.
I would expect that upon you proving this to them they will do the cambelt now for you for free.
The light replacement sounds fair enough, i think you got lucky witht the exhaust. No idea about the rattling noise.
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