Do the police have common sense?

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Sat 26 Jun 2004 01:00
Do the police have common sense? - pettaw
Or do they stop every innocent person filling up a 1986 Volvo 360 that, frankly who would want to steal?

I mean, at 7:00 on a Monday morning, why would they think a person filling up his Volvo is even remotely suspicious.

And they wonder why the public has no confidence in the police.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 01:16
Do the police have common sense? - martint123
How do you mean 'stop you' - you're stopped when filling up??
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 01:47
Do the police have common sense? - BazzaBear {P}
I'm not sure it's fair to have a go at 'the police' for this. I assume it wasn't the entire force which apprehended you?
I don't know the details of this, but even if they were in the wrong it was one or two policemen, perhaps acting on a hunch. Did it really put you out so much?
I got pulled over driving a battered Astravan a few years ago, I resembled someone they were looking out for, but they were ppolite throughout and I had no problem with it.
We complain when they're not there, we complain whe they are...
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 02:28
Do the police have common sense? - pettaw
Well at least you got told the reason and they were polite. These guys didn't give me rhyme or reason or say anything. They just shouted from their window, "hello, are you the owner of this vehicle- yes- what is your name please - .... - thank you" and then drove off before I could collect my thoughts enough to even think why I was stopped.

You're right it is unfair to have a go at 'the police'
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 07:37
Do the police have common sense? - Mark (RLBS)
>>They just shouted from their window...

The swine. This is an outrageous example of ridiculous policing;

They didn't hold you up, they didn't abuse you, they said please and thank you, and didn't let you collect your thought(s).

I am not surprised that you are annoyed.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 09:50
Do the police have common sense? - Dwight Van Driver
PC Duncan Disorderly (to crew mate): " Looks a bit sus that bloke filling up. Do a check on Reg will you"
" PC Del Egator to Control. vehicle check, VRM ??????"
"Foxtrot Control to Del. No records stolen, Taxed and Insured, Reg Keeper Mr Pettaw."
PC Disorderly , out window, "Your car Mate? what's yer name?"
"Mr PETTAW"
"OK Duncan no need to delay him any further, carry on to that other incident"

Simple check, no hassle, why complain?

DVD
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 09:54
Do the police have common sense? - volvoman
Well that's quite outrageous Pettaw and surely a complete abuse of police powers! According to the latest independent data it appears there's a growing problem in certain areas with the police picking on totally innocent Volvo drivers at 7.00am and speaking to them.

The police claim it's due to technical problems with their new mind reading equipment but there have been allegations of institionalised prejudice on the part of the police by a number of Volvo drivers. If I were you I'd sue them, you've obviously been traumatised by this awful experience. If you do a Google search you'll probably find there's a lottery funded web based support group which specialises in this sort of thing. Good luck.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 19:19
Do the police have common sense? - kithmo
Well at least you got told the reason and they were
polite. These guys didn't give me rhyme or reason or say
anything. They just shouted from their window, "hello, are you the
owner of this vehicle- yes- what is your name please -
.... - thank you" and then drove off before I could
collect my thoughts enough to even think why I was stopped.
You're right it is unfair to have a go at 'the
police'

>>
I think you would have been well pleased if they had asked the same question, after doing their PNC check, to some scumbag who had just nicked your motor one morning at 7:00 am (or earlier) whilst you were still in bed.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 11:40
Do the police have common sense? - Nortones2
It sounds a trifle rude, but did you complain to the police? Worse things have happened, so I wouldn't be too upset if thats your only negative contact with them!
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 12:03
Do the police have common sense? - bikemade3
Yes and No. Stopped 4 years ago 50+ in a 40 limit on the bike. Pulled over, quick chat, no further action no points or £ 30 fine.
4 weeks ago coming come 25 mile commute fast A road 85-90 long straights with a solitary car 1/2 mile in front doing the same sort of speed. Catch up with it about 2 miles later still doing 85-90. Car turned out to be a N Reg 3.0 24v Omega dark blue unmarked plod.Nothing unremarkable about that i thought untill the rear blue lights come on for 2 seconds then are switched off. Sit back and just follow for another 3-4 miles, finally managed to get past when the Omega gets stuck in a queue behind LGV.Quick hands up (thanks)and a glance at the driver ( Inspector) carry on.
5 Miles later sat at the inside lane waitng for the traffic lights to change Omega pulls up outside line window down quick chat about where i am going and thats that.No further action obviously a different bread and not conditioned to Stop everybody 1 mph over the limit.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 15:21
Do the police have common sense? - Stuartli
I had a similar experience some years ago on a dual carriageway on the way to Preston.

Came up behind a Rover Sterling in the outside lane overtaking a slower moving vehicle (I readily admit I was exceeding the speed limit by about five to 10 mph) and was surprised to see a row of blue flashing lights suddening appear in the Sterling's rear window for a couple of seconds.

Backed off immediately and followed it discreetly for the next five miles. The Rover eventually turned into the Lancashire Police HQ and I discovered later in the day that it was the then Chief Constable being taken to work by his official chauffeur...:-)

Re the Omega. A friend on an empty M6 early one morning, apart from another vehicle about 200 yards behind, was doing 85-90mph.

Five minutes later the car following caught him up and he was pulled over. It was an unmarked police Omega and he was done for speeding even though the motorway was free of traffic.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 16:35
Do the police have common sense? - BazzaBear {P}
Car turned out to
be a N Reg 3.0 24v Omega dark blue unmarked plod.Nothing
unremarkable about that i thought untill the rear blue lights come
on for 2 seconds then are switched off.


Not quite sure I get this. The policeman switched his lights on to warn you?
I've heard of people flashing their lights at other motorists to warn them there's Plod around, but never the plod themselves :D

Mt Pettaw, I really don't see what you have to complain about. If anything I had more since I was pulled over. they didn't cost you any time, they were polite, it cost you nothing, where's the problem?
With all the paperwork they have to complete and lack of resources on top keeping them from doing real policework on the streets all they need is for members of the public to resent them breathing to make their job that much more bearable.
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 22:04
Do the police have common sense? - bikemade3
That\'s right Bazza Having hurtled myself down the road at a breakneck speed for 2 miles i finally managed to catch the mysterious car. And there i sat quite happy with progress 80-85 mph A road Very light traffic,thinking shall i overtake or just follow then the nice kind Inspector lit the lights for about 5 seconds. Oh dear i thought, then the lights go out and thats that. Good on him, probably didn\'t want to do the paperwork.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 16:59
Do the police have common sense? - Andrew-T
"Fast A road 85-90 long straights with a solitary car 1/2 mile in front doing the same sort of speed. Catch up with it about 2 miles later still doing 85-90".

You've discovered a new kind of relativity - catch up ½-mile while travelling only two at the same sort of speed? Sounds as if plod was doing 68-72, rather less than you were?
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 15:09
Do the police have common sense? - barney100
They may have been told to look out for Volvo 360s as one had been used in a crime? Anyway you are lucky to have police....all ours have retired on huge pensions and spend their time cluttering up the local golf courses.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 16:51
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
all ours have retired on huge pensions and
spend their time cluttering up the local golf courses.


barney, I had an eye-opener yesterday on where the rest of the police time goes, for the ones who aren't yet retired :(

I was called as a witness to a prosecution for a minor civil disorder case. The case had taken nearly a year to get to court, with a file which had grown to nearly an inch thick. Prosecution witnesses plus no less than three police oficers. The hearing was scheduled for first thing, but delayed until lunchtime by the prev case, which was expected to be very quick but got bogged down in complex legal arguments.

When we were finally called in, it was to be told that the whole thing was a mess: the CPS had basically laid the wrong charges, which really couldn't be heard without further investigation, and even then might not be viable.

Result: unresolved case, mountains of court and CPS time wasted, and (particularly worrying) mountains of police time down the plughole. No wonder there's no officers on the beat if so much of their time is wasted by a system which can't even prosecute a fairly simple and straightforward minor case :(
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 19:42
Do the police have common sense? - Pugugly {P}
"their time is wasted by a system which can't even prosecute a fairly simple and straightforward minor case :("

Why do you think that defence solicitors drive round in nice cars....?



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Sat 26 Jun 2004 21:25
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
"their time is wasted by a system which can't even prosecute
a fairly simple and straightforward minor case :("
Why do you think that defence solicitors drive round in nice cars....?


probably not cos they got lucky on the Lotto!

But I'd advise you against moving your practise to this neck of the woods. The case I was involved in collapsed due its own internal disorganisation: the defendant had no solicitor, and clearly didn't need one.

The defence lawyers round here are going to be back riding the buses unless the prosectors get their act in gear a bit.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 21:58
Do the police have common sense? - Pugugly {P}
"the defendant had no solicitor, and clearly didn't need one."

Excellent....there was an old saying -- with a prosecution like that who needs a defence ???
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 22:38
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
Excellent....there was an old saying -- with a prosecution like that
who needs a defence ???


Very apt! But in this case, the prosection stressed that they needed a defence lawyer.

I just about managed to keep my temper when the prosecutor started to explain that if the defendant had a solicitor, then the problems would have come to light before the magistrates spotted that the wrong charge had been laid.

The police weren't even particularly fed up: they were well used to this sort of charade
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 11:25
Do the police have common sense? - Vin {P}
"Why do you think that defence solicitors drive round in nice cars....?"

My brother's one - up North, and he gets to drive around in a beaten up old diesel Citroen estate (T reg, I think).

V
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 11:36
Do the police have common sense? - Stuartli
>>>with a file which had grown to nearly an inch thick...

My goodness me...:-)

No wonder you felt cheated after nearly a year's wait for it to get to court.

Seriously, why do you think that the Americans, for instance, hate lawyers so much and, what's more, tell more lawyer jokes than any other type?
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 12:54
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
Seriously, why do you think that the Americans, for instance, hate lawyers
so much and, what's more, tell more lawyer jokes than any other type?


sadly, I think this situation is more the inverse of the American lawyer-stereotype, which seems to be based on the notion of lawyers getting rich by unscrupulously milking money out of the system at every turn, e.g.:

Q. Why do layers not eat shark meat?
A. Professional courtesy

In this case, the only lawyer involved was the CPS prosecutor, by the looks of it a relatively junior one. That's usually a salaried postion, and a not-brilliantly-salaried one at that: a sortofa comfortable bureaucratic job.

I suspect that the applicable rule here is the Peter Principle: the theory that employees within an organization will advance to their highest level of competence and then be promoted to and remain at a level at which they are incompetent.

In this case, the level of incompetence was pretty low: inability to read one very simple statute carefully enough to understand that the relevant section did not contain the restrictions set out in the previous sections. Not exactly rocket science to the layman, let alone someone who spent all those years in law school :(
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 13:42
Do the police have common sense? - Pugugly {P}
A problem that the CPS suffers from is a lack of continuity with the prosecutors. In the case that's highlighted its very likely that's the first time that prosecutor has seen the file.

Perhaps they should employ DVD as a consultant.

Got to go to feed my pet shark now.
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 13:46
Do the police have common sense? - Altea Ego
Shark? thought you guys bred pirahanas.
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 13:50
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
Got to go to feed my pet shark now.


I could suggest a few candidates for its next meal. All ready-to-eat, in my local CPS office ... ;-)
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 16:55
Do the police have common sense? - patently
Do the police have common sense?


Yes.

Any evidence in this thread that they do not?

No.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:11
Do the police have common sense? - rustbucket
>> Do the police have common sense?
Yes.
Any evidence in this thread that they do not?
No.

>>
Well last week the traffic police stopped all the traffic on section of the A3 as a vehicle was smoldering on the slip road 20 yards in front of me.The result was A completely burnt out vehicle due to fire engines unable to get through the now totally blocked A3. The fire brigade had to take an alternative route via several housing estates - all due the this traffic policemans lack of common sense.All that was required was to let tha A3 to continue to flow and stop or deviate traffic on the slip road.

rustbucket (the original)
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:20
Do the police have common sense? - frostbite
Or even,

Round my way, attention was called to the driver of a white, BMW 7-series who had committed some (fairly minor IIRC) offence in a specific area.

For the next 4-5 hours no driver of any model or colour BMW was safe from being pulled for miles around.

Must have been a quiet day.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:25
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
interesting scenario, rustbucket.

Not having seen it, I guess one impt factor qwas how close the smouldering car was to the A3. If it was very close, I can only speculate that it may have been a balancing calculation: the police may have assessed a risk of explosion, and concluded that it was safer to keep fast traffic clear of the car, so that it could burn or explode in relative safety even if fire services were delayed.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:37
Do the police have common sense? - El Hacko
corporately speaking, you cannot expect much common sense from any uniformed organisation, but (thank god) there are still many individuals within e.g. the police service that have, and apply, common sense.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:37
Do the police have common sense? - patently
My thoughts exactly, NW.

I'd rather avoid traffic jams. But if the alternative is being next to a smouldering car just as the smoulder reaches the fuel tank, then I'll take the jam every time.

And what would we have said about the traffic policeman if he'd allowed it to blow up with trafic in the adjacent lane? It would have been along the lines that he needed to learn a bit of common sense.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 17:58
Do the police have common sense? - v0n
Early morning, petrol station somewhere in Britain....

Plod1: And you know how they calculate miles per gallon in Amsterdam?
Plod2: They don't count them as miles per gallon?
Plod1: No, they got the metric system there, they wouldn't know what a mile or gallon is.
Plod2: How'd they count it?
Plod1: They calculate litres per 100 kilometers.
Plod2: Litres per 100 kilometers. No gallons, eh. And how'd they sell pint of beer?
Plod1: Beer is beer, but they sell it as Bottle of Beer or Glass of Beer.
Plod2: Bottle of beer ! Ahhaha, what do they call a sixpack?
Plod1: I dunno, I didn't go into a supermarket. But you know what they put on french fries in a pub in Holland instead of ketchup?
Plod2: What?
Plod1: Mayonnaise.
Plod2: Goddamn!
Plod1: Yeah, and all drivers in Volvos over there are called Van Der something.
Plod2: No way!
Plod1: Way.
Plod2: That just can't be.
Plod1: Seriously, I will bet you a sixpack that guy over there, filling up Volvo, is called Van Der something too.
Plod2: It's on
Plod1: Hello, are you the owner of this vehicle?
Mr Pettaw: Yes
Plod1: What is your name please
Me Pettaw: Peetaw Pettaw
Plod1: Thank you
Plod2: You owe me a sixpack.
Plod1: Goddamn! It worked in Amsterdam.
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Sat 26 Jun 2004 18:09
Do the police have common sense? - Adam {P}
Quality......

Vincent Ve.....sorry Adam


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Sat 26 Jun 2004 18:10
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
Early morning, petrol station somewhere in Britain....


brilliant! Now here did I leave that spare ribcage?

It did occur to me to me, tho, that the volvo-driver's full name might have been Peetaw van der Pettaw, with the vander discarded to evade repeated questions about mayonnaise on chips, which require an explanation that mayonnaise on chips is in fact the Belgian national dish, which in turns requires an explanation that Belgium is really the former Sapnish Netherlands, and that until the Spanish retreated back to the Costa a few centuries ago, Belgian volvo drivers were all called Jose Van Der ...
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 12:29
Do the police have common sense? - THe Growler
If anyone thinks the UK police don't have common sense they should either put their money where their mouth is and join it and help it do better or else see how police affairs are conducted in other less developed countries.

I have no idea what it must be like to be a police officer in UK but I imagine you are seldom recognised for what you did and more often scolded for what you didn't.

3 years ago I picked up my daughter from boarding school in Kent. I had a Focus rental. Near Lewes, I can't remember the junction, a cloth cap in a Micra shot out of a side turn and we were t-boned. It slammed us into the hedge on the other side of the road. The stupid old fool then got out and tried to say it was our fault, despite he ignored the Stop sign, and started on yelling at us with his witch of a wife.

Luckily no one was hurt but my daughter was almost hysterical.

Someone stopped and called the law.

The attending patrol was there in a matter of minutes. The courtesy and kindness they extended was exemplary. My daughter was calmed down, recovery arrangements were made for the rental car, and we were given a lift back to Haywards Heath.

Shaken as we were, the concern shown by the officers attending, especially toward my daughter, was an example of superb policing.

Now then, get yourself into traffic trouble in Riyadh. Ever seen the traffic jail? A hole in the ground, literally. You're in the wrong till you can prove otherwise or pay your way out. Get yourself in traffic trouble in Manila? Open your wallet and say after me "take some". Then they ask for more.

It seems to me if you want the policing you want then you have to work together for that. Abusing them only widens the divide.
You in UK do not know how lucky you are to have a relatively incorruptible, properly trained police force.

It isn't the officers you should be haranguing. Remember it's the management, that determines the focus of any organisation but the problem is that fecal matter always runs downhill.

Sorry but that day near near Lewes was to me a reinforcer of one of the very few things I miss about UK -- great policemen.



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Sun 27 Jun 2004 13:05
Do the police have common sense? - NowWheels
It isn't the officers you should be haranguing. Remember it's the management, that
determines the focus of any organisation but the problem is that fecal matter always runs downhill.


Growler, you're absolutely right! Althiugh some of the officers I have encountered have not been as bright as I would like, most of them have been great and some have been brilliant ... but nearly all of them are utterly fed up with the atrocious management they have to endure.

Mercifully, my local force has just been given a going-over by HMIC, and we hope that some management changes may follow. (Yes, triumph of hope over expectation, but some hope is better than no hope!)

However, I can't agree with your suggestion of joining the police to sort them out. I have a few friends who have joined, and they and their colleagues are utterly despondent at their inability to make even the tiniest changes within an antiquatedly hierarchical system. Pressure for change will have to come from the outside, because the precondition of being on the inside is not rocking the boat.
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 13:51
Do the police have common sense? - Pugugly {P}
I agree witht he above, took a call on Friday afternoon from a former client who had been involved in a major bump. She had a couple of non-policing issues with the bump. I suggested dhe contacted the Officers involved to clarify some other minor matters. She was highly complimentary of the way the Police dealt with the accident. She is in a profession where the Police are not natural bedfellows. Mind you for all her compliments there would have been dozens moaning about the same officers who had to clase the road for three hours.
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Sun 27 Jun 2004 14:51
Do the police have common sense? - John24
The police are hide-bound by the regulations enforced on them by our politicians. And which profession is overwhelmingly represented amongst our politicians? Lawyers, of course. Are these the ones who can't make a living in practice? Or are they in politics to help the common good? :o)
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