Don't lets get too emotional folks - I'm not heartless just fed up with the consequences of the closure of a motorway for 12 hours + for what in ordinary circumstances is a fairly minor accident or crime albeit with tragic consequences.
Thank's for the info CF.
The question was - who takes the decisions on this?
The accident involved a motorbike and a car which did not stop so presumably no heavy removal or lifting equipment required so why not just cone off the relevant 1/4 mile or so of the relevant lane to do the investigation.
Trapped motorists were having to have water brought to them in their cars by the local council because they could not get off the motorway.
IMO and I emphasise IMO it was a complete overreaction because it was a senior police officer involved.
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Overreaction - you may be right but I guess a senior police officer may well be a target for all sorts of scumbags and the other driver left the scene so ruling out foul play would have been more of an issue in this case than many others.
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I agree with Mapmaker, whilst obviously the area was a crime scene, and needed to be investigated - all three lanes? For 12 hours?
Undoubtably the fact that the victim was a senior police officer exacerbated this situation.
If you take into account the disruption caused to thousands of people, the number of hours wasted must have a theoretical value in £ aswell.
Whilst admittedly i do not know all the facts, it seems unfeasable that at least one lane could have been opened after only a nominal period of closure.
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I usually use this section on a motorbike at about 08.45 (which I believe was about when it happened).
But yesterday I had a hospital appointment so was working at home in the morning.
"There but for the grace of God!"
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The accident happened at 7.20am
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There's a 50mph speed limit on that section so the cause was almost certainly the usual: lack of observation.
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IMO and I emphasise IMO it was a complete overreaction because it was a senior police officer involved.
That implies that the Police force are biased in the way they deal with individuals - i.e according to their social stature, rank etc.
I do not think so - at least I would not like to think so.
However I do believe that this case given the circumstances and people involved, was always going to be "high-profile" and in that sense, the Police probably didn't want to make any mistakes.
.... I think there is a subtle difference betweeen the two.
Chad.
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A very subtle differnce Chad - do you think if it had been Joe Scruff motorcycle courier , the reaction would have been the same as regards the 12 hour closure?
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A very subtle differnce Chad - do you think if it had been Joe Scruff motorcycle courier , the reaction would have been the same as regards the 12 hour closure?
I am fairly cynical and getting more so :-( but I still believe that the police would put as much effort into invetsigating the death of a Joe Scruff as they do one of their own.
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JAB - Im not talking about the investigation or the reaction of the other services - just why the whole motorway closure and not a cone off job?
If someone was involved in a hit and run on a single track or dual carriageway I can understand and I would be happy ( well not that happy) to sit ( and have done in the past )for a couple of hours if the victim needed attention at the roadside or the air ambulance to land.
IMO it is a complete overreaction to a relatively minor case of possible reckless driving and these closures are becoming more and more frequent and affect literally thousands of people.
Are the people who take these decisions accountable to anyone - it would appear not.
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@Helicopter,
I understand the point your making and I agree with you, but I think that the police reaction would have been the same regardless of who was involved.
We've had major roads closed for extended periods because of accidents and incidents. I think it's what the "book" says they must do, so they do.
JaB
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I agree with JaB, sorry Heli. I think the presence of a police officer made no difference whatsover.
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Regardless of whether the identity of the victim mattered tho, 12 hours with all three lanes closed?
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New rules are that they have to close all 3 lanes. Until a year or two ago, they would just close the relevant lane.
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Trapped motorists were having to have water brought to them in their cars by the local council because they could not get off the motorway.
This was the most significant thing I noticed about the whole business. Ok, we know the police will close roads (and railways) for hours or days at a time causing massive disruption, but could they not have temporarily closed the road a junction further back to allow those trapped to turn around and go back to the previous exit and get out of it? I assume they wouldn't let them past to 'preserve evidence' but surely all but the HGVs could get turned fairly easily on a motorway and if the proper protection was in place could go back one junction 'wrong way'.
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From the point of view of reversing traffic it could not have happened at a worse place.
The two carriageways are separated by up to 200 yards or so with no connections.
The southbound carriageway at the previous junction (Loughton)is "on only".
The only practical way to clear the backlog would be to open the offside slip onto the North Circular as soon as possible whilst closing access at Loughton, the M25 and Harlow (A414).
A right nightmare but not impossible, I would have thought.
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(I don't know the road in question or where the accident happened I must admit. I'm assuming from your comment it was on the southbound carriageway?)
The two carriageways are separated by up to 200 yards or so with no connections.
There seem to be very few connections between carriageways on motorways. However, I wasn't meaning this, I was suggesting the cars do a U-turn and run wrong-way to the previous junction....
The southbound carriageway at the previous junction is "on only".
...not a problem, indeed easier as there would be no traffic coming off here so you already have a 'barrier' between junctions and as traffic would be going wrong-way, an 'on' ramp would become an 'off' ramp - you'd just need someone at the top controlling things. Heck, even if you only got traffic off at a crawl it would be better than being stuck for potentially 12 hours or so. I know I couldn't last that long without, for example, needing the toilet.
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