Hmm, I've driven a few autos but when back to a manual as most of my miles are on the motorway.
Now, 3.5L of V8 and a 3-speed auto, that's an auto. 60 in 1st. 90 in 2nd. Or just stick in D2 and use the single gear for town driving up to A-road speed.
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And Mark, while you're there, perhaps you can explain RLBS please?
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Royal Leamington b****y Spa, IIRC
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>>I wonder why insurance companies want to know if your car is an Auto or not
These days I think it is partly a hangover from earlier when autos were not all that they are now and most certainly not as common.
However, it is also because auto only licences are available and so this question can become relevant later.
It is also to further identify the specific model/type of the vehicle.
And finally because the root of all this is claims experience on varying vehicles. It may be that the claims experience is different between the two - potentially anything from a different type of accident up to attracting a different type of driver or driving style.
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?I also think that all learners should start in an Auto to get used to driving, rules of the road etc and then once they have passed their test and driven for a while, take a supplementary manual test if preferred.?
Rebecca,
My daughter is learning at the mo in a Corsa B, and I find it an awkward car to drive smoothly because the throttle (sorry ?accelerator) is so heavy it makes smooth changes and pulling away difficult, the point being some cars are easier to live with than others and gears are just one part of it.
Sometimes (like me) new car drivers are motorcycles converting and they do not have an issue with clutches and gears. I don?t think I ever stalled a car as a learner or had a prob. with the gears, just that huge lump of metal on my left as I swung into spaces, LOL.
My brother passed his test in an auto and regretted it because he then had all the hassle again with a manual.
From a learner safety POV I guess there are swings and roundabouts
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I'm delighted to hear so many auto 'box drivers are out there on this site. I've just bought my first auto - MB diesel - and love it. However, advice please. When waiting at lights with parking brake on should I leave it in drive or move it into neutral? I know about not moving into park (bad for transmission & heart attack for driver behind when reversing lights come on as you shift to drive). Thanks etc in advance.
8 ball
PS I agree about getting to know the box and controlling it with the accelerator when you wish.
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When waiting at lights with parking brake on should I leave it in drive or move it into neutral?
8 ball,
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=13527
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"Yes Aprilia what about some facts about the Audi CVT? How many multitronics have failed to your knowledge? If that system is so "on a knife-edge" why does a premium brand like Audi use it. Moreover, why are they expanding its use across their model range (the use in the diesel only began last year)? They do have a 3 year warranty - that suggests they have confidence in their CVT."
Well, I don't have time to write an essay on various types of CVT, but here are some facts.
First off, the CVT, as an idea, is nearly as old as the flush toilet. The problem is no one can seem to get them to work reliably. Loads of people have had their fingers burnt - remember the Ford/FIAT CVT debacle.
The ZF Ecotronic CVT in the Mini is giving BMW a headache at the moment - some owners have had three replacement transmissions in less than 10k miles. I gather the dealers are up to Version 36 of the control software so far!!
GM are making (or trying to) CVT's at the Szentgotthard transmission plant, but I gather few are being produced due to what GM call 'quality problems' (i.e. they break). The manufacturers are red hot keen on them because they use 50% the components of a conventional auto (and they can charge the same £1000 premium) and deliver fuel savings in the test cycles (important for CAFE).
The Fuji unit used in the Subaru Justy wasn't bad, but tended to fail at around 60k miles. Fuji used a segmented steel belt in compression. This is essentially the same as the current Honda unit which is 'reasonably' reliable, and handles up to about 100Nm.
The VW/Audi uses a 30mm wide belt produced by LuK (Germany). LuK don't make CVTs, they mainly make clutches, but they do make CVT components (belts and pulleys) which they supply to others like VAG. The VAG/LuK CVT uses a segmented belt in tension, with the pulleys driven off the pins that link the segments together. Does 300Nm torque through a 30mm belt, driving through a set of little pins sound a good idea to you? Maybe it will work - but I wouldn't fancy finding out with my own money. Leave it to the company car drivers and wait a bit longer than 3 years - I want to see some still running properly at 5 years, 100k miles. Remember, when a CVT goes, it goes 'big time' - we're talking complete new factory transmission.
Nissan have an interesting unit in the Murano (US mkt) - its a 350Nm transmission using a belt in tension - be interesting to see if it lasts. Even more interesting is their Xtroid (toroidal drive) used in the Nissan Cedric.
Anyone remember the fleet of Mondeo toroidal CVT's that Ford built to test - never heard any more about them!
I am all for innovation, but I wouldn't fancy funding the test programme out of my own pocket!
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You clearly know a lot about CVTs but answer the question - how many Audi multitronics have failed? If you have a percentage answer it would be useful to all of us. For example if 90% fail within 5 years then most of us won't go near one with a barge pole. If less than 0.01% fail then we may consider buying it.
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Aprilia - you said earlier that Honda don't produce CVTs - I stand corrected about the Jazz but didn't they produce one for the Civic?
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Aprilia - you said earlier that Honda don't produce CVTs - I stand corrected about the Jazz but didn't they produce one for the Civic?
Yes, there is a Honda-branded unit supplied for the Insight, the Civic and the Civic Hybrid (in the US) - I think they call it the 'M4VA' CVT.
I don't claim to fully understand the inner workings of the Japanese motor industry, but I think I am correct in saying that the technology for this 'box (and the CVT's supplied to Nissan from JATCO) all derive from Fuji - essentially it is a Fuji 'box. In the case of Honda they use a fluid coupling on the input; JATCO use a powder clutch (ferromagnetic powder).
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You clearly know a lot about CVTs but answer the question - how many Audi multitronics have failed? If you have a percentage answer it would be useful to all of us. For example if 90% fail within 5 years then most of us won't go near one with a barge pole. If less than 0.01% fail then we may consider buying it.
I suspect that this information is not known anywhere outside of the VAG HQ. These vehicles will be in warranty and therefore in the dealer network; VAG are pretty tight with information and if there are problems then they tend to keep very quiet.
I would guess that Audi have done their homework and relatively few will fail within three years. I am much more interested in the longer term. I expect a transmission to last at least 120k miles. I still maintain that buying any CVT is a gamble and whenever I bet on anything, I always lose!. All the data on CVT reliability across all manufacturers is so far not good. I would wait until the data improves.
I have many years in the motor industry and I know how cynical it is. The question is, 'Will it make it through warranty?'. No one is particularly interested in what happens outside of warranty....
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Aprilia,
Can't fault your logic at all about CVT.
It seems that the buying public are unwittingly participating in an extended trial. Not unlike the situation with the Wankel engine in the NSU and Mazda many years ago.
C
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Aprilia, Can't fault your logic at all about CVT. It seems that the buying public are unwittingly participating in an extended trial. Not unlike the situation with the Wankel engine in the NSU and Mazda many years ago. C
Yes, that's right.
Also, don't take too much comfort in a three year warranty. Once older, out of warranty, cars start to fail then news gets around and it hammers down the value of the newer cars - so owners of in-warranty cars still lose out.
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If someone has access to AutoBild they could read the full account, of which this seems an extract:
\"Depending on the model and engine type, current installation rates for the Audi multitronic ® transmission with essential LuK compo-nents are currently up to 50 per cent; according to AutoBild with some engine types (e.g. 2.5 TDI, 155 PS) more than 60% of Audi customers are already choosing the multitronic®.
The first extended time test of the multitronic® over 100,000 kilo-metres in an Audi A6 2.8 (reported in AutoBild issue 17 of this year) produced an impressive result: ?There were no striking features at all in the breakdown of the Multitronic. According to AUTO BILD expert Wolf Gudlat, the degree of wear was so low it was as if the transmission had just been installed. So despite the very high load, (hard driving, trailer attached) it proved itself very well.?
Source: tinyurl.com/32hlq
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100k km = 60k miles.
I want a transmission that lasts double this in normal service. Time will tell....
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On the original question;
I'm too lazy and drive too many miles in far too many traffic jams for the effort of a manual box.
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Thank you, DD. I should have known this would have been covered before and must learn to search the site properly.
8 ball
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Covered but not resolved!
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Covered but not resolved!
Indeed, some subjects are always worth another debate.
Speed cameras anyone?
I am always fascinated by the depth of knowledge and detail available here, and on a subject close to my motoring in this case. More please!.
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DD adds these search links to give you more information, not to limit the current discussion. (we use the delete button for that)
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DD adds these search links to give you more information, not to limit the current discussion. (we use the delete button for that)
And sarcasm. Don't forget the sarcasm.
No Dosh
Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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I have finally bought my new Legacy, 2 litre auto estate.
The first impressions are that it is a very relaxing way to drive. The clutch on the manual version I traded in was very stiff. I developed big leg muscles, left side only, and I was restricted to what shoes I could drive in. The insoles of the shoes would break up. Now I can put on whatever pair comes to hand. It is relaxing not having to wave the gear lever about.
As far as acceleration is concerned, I?m not one for cutting and thrusting on the roads, 100kW is fine. If I plan ahead and wind it up against the handbrake I can get into the traffic stream more quickly than with the manual version. Both of my hands are available for steering.
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If Iplan ahead and wind it up against the handbrake I can get into the traffic stream more quickly than with the manual version.
This is not healthy for the transmission.
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Winding up the transmission against the brakes used to be part of a diagnostic test for automatic transmissions but the instruction was to limit it to a maximum of 10 seconds to avoid overheating the fluid. I would never do it when driving.
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Thank you Aprilla and Dizzy. Winding up does not take more that 2 or 3 secs., but I will take your advice and stop doing it.
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My neighbour, a retired motor mechanic, has a 1988 BMW 530 automatic. It is in beautiful condition - he knows how drive and look after cars. The mileage is 185 000, engine and gearbox are original, and the head has never been off. The only replacements he has made are wiper linkages, brakes etc.
He changes the engine oil every 3000 miles and transmission fluid every 24 000 miles.
He attended a auto-gearbox course run by Landrover. In answer to a question, ?Should we change to neutral at traffic lights??, the instructor replied, ?No, if you leave it in drive the transmission fluid will warm up a little, but every time you move the mechanism you cause wear.?
I find that whenever I've been cut up op on the road it has far more often than not been a BMW (neigbour excepting). There must be something abou them.
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