i am having major problems with my 306 td, basicly the thing has really bad trouble starting from cold.
Ive tried changing all the glow plugs, but that hasn't sorted it.
Im thinking that maybe theres a problem with air getting in the fuel, so i want to try and bleed the fuel system.
So ive looked at my haynes manual, but it says to loosen the bleed screw in the fuel pump inlet pipe union bolt, but doesnt explain where that is.
So if anyone can explain where the bleed screw is, or shed any light on anything else that could be causing the problem, i would very much appreciate the help.
Cheers!!!!!!!!??????
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 04/12/2009 at 14:38
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hello mate,if you look at the engine face on,then look slight to middle right of the engine , look for a black dual thermo/fuel filter round plastic unit,at the bottom theres a plastic pipe,about 12 inches long,undo the pipe anticlockwise until fuel runs out,only for a few seconds.ive also had bad starting probs with a pug td engine,sorted now tho.
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Were the glowplugs definately correct for the application?
I've seen glowplugs replaced by "Motoring Organisations" with incorrect plugs, leading to continued bad starting and more expense......
Just my 2 cents.......
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groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
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A colleague of mine was having problems starting his 306td and asked me for my opinion as I am on my second one. I said glowplugs and he told me that they had already been changed. His symptoms were that the car was hard to start but o.k.after it had. I couldn't offer him any more advice. I have seen him recently and his car is now fine. He had taken it to a garage that concluded that he wasn't getting full compression due to incorrect valve clearances and they adjusted them. The garage had told him that this was a common cause of bad starting with this engine. He has had the car a year or two and it had been starting o.k. up till this recent spate. I can't grasp this one as I thought that valve lift would suffer with wear and so that the valves would be seated when they are supposed to be. I also have not heard this to be a common problem either. Anyway he is happy now. Cheers.
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The fuel systems on later XUDs do not seem to have air bleed screws - they automatically bleed.
Before a cold start pump the primer (located over the RH engine mount). It may be slightly soft but should firm up at the second or third squeeze - if not you have a leak somewhere. This will be further confirmed by pumping it till it does go hard, then starting the engine (which should start easily). Favourite spots for leaks are injector leak off hoses, fuel filter seals, the pipes down the back of the engine, and the primer itself. Another trick for air leaks is to park the car nose down if you can - this helps to stop the fuel system sucking air in. If you get a cloud of grey smoke when it does start, then air leak is not the likely cause, as this is unburnt injected diesel.
Are you sure that the glowplugs are getting full voltage when they are switched on - bad earths / faulty glow plug timer can lower this. Try heating 3 times and see if this makes any difference.
How does the starter motor sound - these engines are not all that tolerant of slow starter motors / duff batteries.
Is the cold start advance working? There is a cable running from the thermostat to the injection pump - this should be tight when the engine is cold and go slack when hot. If it's slack when cold it will make starting the engine difficult.
The valves problem is known, but seems pretty rare. The exhaust valve seats recess which causes the valve clearances to close up leading to a loss of compression when the engine's cold. Resetting the clearances involves removing the camshaft and installing new shims, so is not easy or cheap! Plenty of other things to check before you get there!
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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hello there,
it sounds like a very similar problem to what i have any would be interested in anymore information anybody can give...
my issue is with a Peugeot 306 1.9TD 1999...
The car has really bad starting issues only on cold mornings, during the summer i never have a problem.
Eventually gets started with a huge puff of white/maybe blue smoke after say a minute of trying to start and plenty of foot on the gas and when it eventually does start i have to keep my foot down and keep the starter motor going to actually keep it going enough for the revs to pickup.
Once running the car runs very well and can be turned off and restarted almost immedietly.
Things i have tried.
Replaced Glow Plugs
Replaced Glow Plug Relay
Replaced Injectors with new/reconditoned
Tried Electric Blanket under the bonnet overnight (dont laugh works very slightly, feel an idiot lol)
Tried Priming before starting, truth is the priming pump is really hard
Tried giving the glow plugs 3 warms before starting and still bad
Tried turning lights on about 1-2 minutes before attempt to start car to give the battery a chance to warm up as well, no joy.
Tried parking car nose down and nose up. Nose up seemed to work better before new injectors, now it doesnt matter
Tried with full fuel tank and empty fuel tank, doesnt matter same crap start.
Tried with Deisel Redex running thru car , no joy here either
Easy start definatly eases cold starting but i really dont wanna use it all of the time due to damage potentially caused.
Things i havent tried yet...
New Battery ?
New Starter Motor ?
Checking for air leaks ?
Replace fuel filter ?
Cold Start Advance cable between thermo and injection pump - mainly because i cannot seem to find this cable, i know what the injection pump is but dont know where the thermo is. ?
Installing Engine warming system to heat the water pumped round the engine cos its very expensive and probably un-neccesary with our cold temperatures, this is probably for constand sub zeros.
Some more information....
Car seems to be harder to start with the new injectors installed believe it or not, perhaps when they work better there is more fuel to choke the car lol
I havent got a garage to park in unfortunatly to keep her warm either :(
My car had drained the battery for some reason a couple of weeks ago and someone gave me a jump, i also had a problem with the same starting issue possibly ruling out a battery fault? i.e if their battery was good and mine was bad, then i wouldnt have had the same starting problem? thats why i havent invested in a new battery as yet.
Directly after fitting the new injectors and i started the car my friend who has helping me notice a few air bubbles in the clear pipe running between the fuel filter and the fuel injection pump which i was assuming just a bit of air that had got in while we were working on the injectors, havent seen any since but then i am not at the front of the car while i am trying to start it these days, just thought it might be relevant.
erm....
trying to think of anything else...
i think thats about it, but please any help would be so appreciated, i am driving the neighbours nuts @ 6am in the morning and just about at the end of my teather and diesel knowledge lol
Thankyou all so much in advance for listening...
Kind Regards
Steve
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Are you sure that the glow plugs are actually working? Connect a voltmeter between one plug terminal and earth, you should have about 10 volts while operating, you can often tell by watching the interior lights, when the relay drops out you will see the brightness increase.
If they are working OK and you have no air getting into the fuel system I'm afraid it must be down to low compression, probably due to the valve clearances being to tight as previously mentioned.
Fitting new injectors with a higher opening pressure will tend to reduce the ammount of fuel going in making the symptoms worse
Edited by Peter.N. on 04/12/2009 at 17:01
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As Peter says, check the plugs are actually getting volts. If they are, then since they are relatively new, they are probably working. My next step would be to whip the rocker cover off and check the valve clearances...my guess would be you'll find the exhaust valves closed to zero with engine cold.
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thankyou for the replies guys, will give that a go.
many thanks
Kind Regards
Steve
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Just a quick update...
tried more things over the xmas period
new air filter just in case other air filter was blocked.
new battery just in case battery was knackered and to be honest starter motor turns better but still no joy.
found the cold start advance cable and set that to a more advance position, doesnt really work but does make the car idle faster when running.
would have loved to have a go at the valve clearances but have given up and taken the car to the garage, FAIL! hehe
will update the forum with the fix once they have told me what is wrong.
Kind Regards
Steve
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oh and i checked that all of the correct voltage was getting to the glow plugs as well. and all was fine.
wierd.
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you will never guess what it was after all this pain and suffering :(
The car has come out of the most recent garage working fine with a brand new set of glow plugs and that was it!!!
The garage that did the glow plugs after i initially messed them up, the garage said i blew the glow plug relay (which i am now dubious about also after learning a bit more myself) the first garage actually left 3 dead glow plugs in the car :(
So 4 new glow plugs installed and the thing starts like a dream this morning in the snow :( guttered to be honest.
Why do some garages feel the need to mess people about, i spent £500+ for them to replace everything to do with the glow plugs and give it a service, they said to me all glow plug equipment (timer,relay and plugs) has been replaced and it still starts bad so must be something else, to which point i moved on and was trying other things, i just cant believe it to be honest.
I am happy the problem is fixed but could really have done without the extra work and extra expense just because the first garage was maybe hoping i was going to take the car back to them for more work.
its bs :(
oh well end of what feels like an era for me
Good Luck all and happy new year! and thankyou all so much for your advice, i will stay onboard to see if i can advise on other peoples issues.
Kind Regards
Steve
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If you had the correct voltage on the glow plugs I fail to see how the relay was 'blown up'. I can't account for the very short life of you glow plugs unless they were of poor quality. The only way you could damage them is by applying more than 12 volts and as that is all that's available to you its unlikely to be your fault - unless someone tried to start it by applying 24v!
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