Why not carry photocopies?
No good. With Adobe Photoshop, my 4 year old could knock up a convincing copy of all the documents, which is why the BiB wouldn't waste there time even looking at them.
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A colleague of mine used to work in the claims department of a major life insurer. They were sticklers for insisting on the original death certificate before paying out. It used to cause quite some upset as it was never a good time for the relatives and they had many other valid needs for the certificate.
One morning, a director erupted after getting the umpteenth letter from an upset widow complaining about the distress caused by his staff apparently not believing her husband was dead. So he marched into the claims department and angrily ordered them to start accepting copies NOW.
Then he left for lunch. When he returned, there was a perfect copy of his own death certificate sitting on his desk.
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What we do here is carry photocopies, certified by a public notary that they are a true copy of the original. That is acceptable to the traffic enforcers and the police.
But then if what you say is possible, even the "originals" could be fakes......
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If production of Docs within 5 days causes a problem because of holidays, away, etc then mention this fact to Plod when he stops you. Faced with this problem in the past I used to endorse the rear of HO/RT/1 (Producer) with the words "Delayed Production due to.." This resulted in officer to whom they were produced not reporting for the non production offfences. Even if they did (for no authority for me to do so) then as I put the file in the offences were not listed.
Funny but I cannot recall it ever being abused. Not so sure now adays.
DVD
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I may be in the minority here, but I always used to carry my docs around with me. This was on the basis that if I was ever stopped for a minor offence, then by showing my docs, I was stopping the Police Officer from getting out his paperwork and starting to write anything at all. I thought along the lines that once they start writing, they might as well write me up for the offence. I also thought it smacked of good citizenship.
I stopped when I gave up the bike, because I knew I'd be tempted to leave the docs in the car (I used to keep them in an envelope in the pocket of my leathers).
I do believe it worked once. I was stopped for 85 on the bike. I reached in my pocket, took out the envelope and opened it, at which point the Copper looked startled and said, "What are you doing?" To this day, I think he was half expecting me to get some cash out of the envelope to try and bribe him. He looked over the bike, looked over the documents, told me not to speed in his area again and left.
V
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I still do carry my docs around, so does SWMBO. My wallet contains DL and Ins cert and from May will contain MoT as well. But then I do still have a green licence in a plastic cover (until next year when we'll probably move house). I said I was too law-abiding to be true! On the one occasion I've been stopped - in 1967 - the officer looked quite diasppointed I had the paperwork available.
But then I've not lost or had my wallet stolen *YET*.
Terry
"Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand"
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I'm with Vin on this one.
I started carrying my docs (not the registraion though) when I was a biker and much younger than I am now. We were forever getting pulled over, usually for no good reason, and the fact that I had the documents prevented any further hassle and I believe on a couple of occasions persuaded plod that writing up a ticket was too much trouble.
I was told once that young BiB were advised to practise their roadside manners on bikers because they were generally younger and less likely to be unimpressed by a young oik in uniform. As I aged, I certainly noticed that I got stopped less often (can't think of any other reason, can you? ;-) )
Anyway - the habit has persisted and I still carry them even though I haven't had a bike for few years now.
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You do not need to carry documents with you as the police can check all this stuff on the PNC now. All details of those allowed to drive (insured) including full name come through together with MOT status if required. They can also check your driving license status immediately through the PNC. You may have noticed they now ask for date of birth with the V5 – this is to help with the cross referencing process when your plate is checked so they can check your licence status simultaneously.
Had this last time stopped by old bill. They just ran the plate and it came back fine and they were saying who was on the insurance so I was on my way. They only issue a producer if the system tells them that the vehicle is uninsured/has no MOT. If you come back disqualified they get out the handcuffs – simple!
I would not carry my documents as there is the risk of theft. For example if your V5 is in the car it makes selling the vehicle much easier to a thief. As explained above it is also no longer necessary
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"You do not need to carry documents with you as the police can check all this stuff on the PNC now."
If this is so, then why did I get a producer after my accident in September?
V
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After accident they usually still give em but not routine stop
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further info
The Drivers Database launch on the PNC has taken forces one step closer to cutting the burden of processing drivers' paperwork.
The new database gives officers on the street instant access to driving licence details through the PNC. They simply need to radio the police control room to check.
Previously, drivers stopped without their licence would have to produce the paperwork at a police station of their choice - creating a costly paper chase to make sure the driver had the right licence entitlement.
Under the new system, police will know straight away in most cases whether the person at the wheel of the car they have stopped is disqualified or whether they have the right entitlement to drive.
The joint PITO and DVLA initiative is the second of three databases on the PNC that will dramatically cut the number of documents produced at police stations. The Motor Insurance Database (MID), giving police access to insurance details for private motorists, was the first to go live. It is estimated that forces are making up to 25,000 insurance enquiries every day.
The third and final piece in the jigsaw, the MOT Database, is on course for delivery next year. Once that is in place, police officers will be able to check the validity of the three most frequently checked documents at the roadside.
Deterrent
There will be a number of benefits from this new way of working, both in time and money saved. There will also be less inconvenience to motorists and all three databases will act as a deterrent against taking to the wheel without a licence, MOT or valid insurance.
Ch Supt Kevin Robson of PITO said: "Changes to the Police National Computer, like the implementation of the Drivers Database, go to show that the PNC is set to remain at the forefront of operational policing for a long time to come.
"Through all three initiatives - insurance, drivers and MOT - we are giving police officers the information they need to make important operational decisions when they need to make them."
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They are planning to add MOT details to PNC but I don't think it has happened yet.
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MOT check live since 03
The Drivers Database has become the second major initiative giving patrolling officers access to vital operational information to go live on the PNC in the space of months.
PC Andy Hale checks a driver's licence details.
It follows the launch of the Motor Insurance Database in September 2001. Between them the databases provide officers at the roadside with information on drivers' licence entitlement and their insurance status. Previously, drivers would have to produce their documents at a police station of their choice within seven days.
Now officers can simply request a PNC check through the police control room to find out, in most cases, whether the motorist before them is insured or has the right licence entitlement to be behind the wheel.
Although it is still early days, transaction figures for the Drivers Database are showing month on month increases as officers get used to the new technology. The Motor Insurance Database, on the other hand, is logging around 25,000 transactions each day from officers around the country.
Launching the database in his home force, ACC Med Hughes of GMP, who is spokesman for the ACPO Road Policing Business Area, said Drivers would mean less inconvenience for lawful drivers and a saving of police time and expense.
He said: "We needed to provide better tools to identify criminal drivers and this initiative is one of them. We intend to reduce the bureaucracy of the existing system, and I am pleased officers will no longer have to give lawful drivers a form to take to the police station."
Both available applications have been delivered through successful partnerships with outside organisations – the Motor Insurance Information Centre (MIIC) and Experian in the case of the Motor Insurance Database, and the DVLA for Drivers.
Automatic
A third development, the MOT database, is due to go live in 2003. This will give police officers roadside access to information on the MOT status of a vehicle in a similar way to the Drivers and Motor Insurance Databases. In addition, an automatic flagging system will eventually be introduced to alert police each time a stolen vehicle is taken to a testing station for an MOT.
All three applications combined are expected to dramatically cut the number of document productions at the police station front counter, reduce the paperwork burden on police and free up resources.
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MOT database was supposed to be 2002.... Sounds like they'll be lucky to have it in 2005.
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See the thread on here I started about the electronic MOT system being delayed *again* that may see the light of day in june this year (tho i wouldnt bet on it)
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So those of us who still have our driving licence address at our parents' as we really don't want to carry a credit card sized photograph as well should move it to our current address to avoid trouble?
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If I remember rightly, maximum £1000 fine for having incorrect details on your drivers license.
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My licence says £400, but...
Not incorrect, merely a different address to that where the car lives & is therefore insured & is therefore registered & therefore stolen from. The reference is to 'permanent' address, and 'permanence' is a matter for debate.
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To tell the truth, I think it'd be a very pedantic policeman who would actually charge you, even if your excuse was just 'it slipped my mind when we moved and I never got around to it'
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Section 99 RTA 88:
Where the name or address of the licence holder as specified in a licence ceases to be correct, its holder must forthwith surrender the licence to the Secretary of State and provide him with particulars of the alterations falling to be made in the name or address and, in the case of a provisional licence as respects which the prescribed conditions are satisfied, with a statement of his sex and date of birth.
A person who fails to comply with the duty under the subsection above is guilty of an offence.
£1,000 fine, no points.
You all will be aware of the past couple of years there has been a tightening up on records which are kept on Computer by DVLA.
DL details now available to Plod through his magic box so don\'t be complacent that this infringement will receive no action.
DVD
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I got stopped by the Police and they checked my details - although I changed the address on my licence, my car was still registered at my parents house (over 100 miles away from where I now live) and they weren't bothered. I think the Police have better things to do really. It did confuse me that the policewoman asked me whether my insurance and tax were "above board" but without asking for any details.... like I'm going to admit it if it weren't!
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DVD kindly quotes the legislation. I don't know what case law there is on interpretation of 'correct' but I wouldn't like to be counsel trying to argue that I was infringing the law.
However, if JamZ's car is insured where it is registered, then he probably ought to think quite hard!
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In Ireland, they have long required cars to carry an insurance disc as well as a tax disc. However, the "producer" notice for driving licences is now gone -- the new law is that you have to carry it with you at all times while driving.
I'm told that this rule was introduced to prevent those with no fixed abode evading licence checks. On balance, I think that's a rather good idea: it's a bit of a pain having to carry the license at all times, but probably better than making things easy for unlicensed drivers.
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Thanks for all the replies. I didn't expect my post to provoke such a discussion. For what it's worth, I decided to bring my documents with me but they certainly aren't being left in the car. Some interesting and useful info here. The point about, human nature being what it is, police not taking any further action when the documents can be produced, is one that hadn't occured to me.
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