Good morning I’m really hoping someone on here can give me some advice as I’m at my wits end.
I recently bought a Citroen Dispatch van for £7900.00 which was converted into a micro camper, the van was sold with an MOT which was not done by the seller. It had failed on a light and tyres but I have an email from the seller stating the faults has been ‘done’.
Bought the van and drove it for 6 weeks before putting it in for a service as I was off to Portugal on a road trip only to find the van has £4500.00 of repairs needed plus illegal tyres. My mechanic told me not to drive it as it’s dangerous so now the van is not on the road. Cancelled my trip and contacted the seller, they offered £1000.00 towards repairs but I said no and that I want to return the van, they basically told me to eff off. They said checking the tyres was down to me but they literally told me in writing that the tyres had been done, naively I thought well they must have been or else it wouldn’t have passed the MOT.
So I’ve contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau and am thinking I may have a good case to take them to the small claims court.
The issue is I think they’re traders which I’m sure gives me more rights they say nope, they only convert vans for family and friends so they’re private sellers and I have no rights. They’re saying the van they sold me was one they converted for their daughter but she’s moving to Australia so that’s why they sold it to me. I have a WhatsApp message dated 5 days before I went to view the van where she states that her daughter had already sold her van and I’ve found proof on social media their daughter had a completely different van which she did indeed sell. I’ve also found ads on Quirky Campers for at least one van they did up and sold as documented on their instagram page.
So are they traders or not??? If they are I’ll send a letter before court action (as advised by the CAB) and go to court, the thing that concerns me the most is that I’ve been driving around on at least one maybe two dangerous and illegal tyres.
I would appreciate any advice as I don’t whether to take them to court or just sc*** the vehicle as I’d have to spend even more money just to make it roadworthy to sell at a much reduced price due to all the repairs it needs. Thank you in advance!
Edited by TC66 on 27/10/2024 at 04:23
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I'd say they're obviously traders, the problem's proving it. You'd need to search old adverts from numerous places to find the evidence.
Tyres/wheels may have been put on to the pass the MOT and then removed.Has it got a current MOT? You say it failed, but got an email saying it had been 'done'.
Campers/motorhomes sell for ridiculously large sums and attract the scammers as an easy way to make money. It would seem you found one. It may take a long time to unravel it.
Hopefully, before you buy anything like this in the future, you'll get an inspection before parting with your money and not believe whoever's selling it.
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Thank you so much for taking the time to reply plus you’ve given me a bit of hope! Yes, it does have a full MOT which my mechanic was absolutely horrified by as he said no way should it have passed!
I have screenshots of vans they have done up and sold from Facebook, Quirky Campers and Instagram. One I’ve found was them doing up a van which they completed on May 21st then put up for sale May 26th.
Also she sent me a WhatsApp message, as previously mentioned, which was an absolute lie, her daughter did have a Citroen Dispatch van which they converted but it’s definitely NOT the van they sold me. It’s a different colour for a start and I managed to get a screenshot of the number plate as well as the page from Facebook where she sold it.
Yes you are right, I travelled 6 hours by train to see the vehicle and I think because it had a full MOT I thought the faulty tyres had been replaced. I do feel really stupid right now!
Edited by TC66 on 27/10/2024 at 09:20
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Certainly look like back street traders . Buying up cheap vans and spinning them for a large profit after “conversion “ . If they have done a few , see if they are vat registered. I would also check the previous mots of vehicles they have sold . How old is the van you have bought ? Daughter off to Australia is a good story though.
Edited by elekie&a/c doctor on 27/10/2024 at 09:27
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Yes I think so too, they are furiously denying it but I’ve managed to get a lot of evidence from their social media!
Great idea re checking out the other vans’ MOT - thank you! I checked if they were registered as a company but they are not, another friend has suggested reporting them to HMRC and Trading Standards.
Yes it’s annoying and very frustrating that they ripped me off but the vehicle was dangerous to drive which made me feel quite sick. The van is a 2015, it actually runs really well and I loved it but now I just feel like setting fire to it!!!
It just really stings seeing them on social media swanning around Europe in their van atm, drinking wine without a care in the world on my money. I know I have been a right i**** here and, trust me, I’m proper kicking myself right now!
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It’s possible to buy 2015 Citroen dispatch vans from around £1500 . Don’t know how much the conversion costs . At least this gives some idea of profit margin.
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It used to be the case that if someone was selling more than 6 vehicles per year from their home address, then they are deemed to be Traders. I've no idea if this is still current.
But getting anywhere with your problem seems fairly remote I'm afraid. Even if you can prove they are acting as traders, they are clearly going to be uncooperative and possibly threatening.
As always, a case of caveat emptor.
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I’ve already had to block them on WhatsApp as the wife is getting very nasty. Yes of course I’m angry but if they’re selling dodgy vehicles that must surely be illegal?
I’m happy to take them on but I only have grounds for legal action if they’re traders not private sellers as they claim. I do feel that as she’s getting aggressive with me and threatening that’s she may well be a bit rattled?
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Have you done any checks on Companies House or in the names of the people you've been dealing with?
Have you searched other ads to try and connect them to a phone number, Facebook ID etc?
Have you spoken to the local trading standards to see of they have 'knowledge' of the alleged trader through previous complaints?
Think your ongoing collection of evidence will help. The fact you live so far away makes ad hoc or covert observations impossible to help gain the proof.
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Thanks for your reply and yes, I’ve checked but they’re not registered. I gathered a LOT of evidence against them showing they’ve been converting vans and selling them on so therefore they are considered a trader. There is confirmation of this on the Motor Ombudsman’s website btw.
I did go to the MO website but they were useless tbh honest, said they wouldn’t even look at my case for 6 months. Sigh.
So I decided to take them to small claims court after sending them a letter before court action by recorded delivery. I was out of the 30 day limit but within the 6 month limit to make a claim against them. Plus in my back pocket I had this:-
Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states that it is illegal for anyone to sell a vehicle that is not roadworthy.
So in conclusion I wrote to them again, attaching only some of my evidence and said let’s be civil and sort this out please. How about I keep the van and repair it and you give me some money back. Well, fortunately they’ve agreed and we have settled on an amount.
Thank you for everyone who replied, I’ve just left this update as it may help someone else. It took a while to comb through social media but in the end I had lots of evidence, remained calm and polite and it worked out.
I’d never buy a vehicle from a private seller now and I’d always get the RAC/AA to check over any vehicles in future. Lesson learned the hard way!
Edited by TC66 on 29/10/2024 at 08:45
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Thanks for getting back with an update. I'm surprised you managed to sort it so quickly and well done for standing your ground.
Chapeau!
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Thank you Tom, I appreciate the positive feedback and I am glad that I did stand my ground even though it was really stressful for me. I’m just happy it worked out and hopefully my story will help other people who might get caught out like I did!
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I’d never buy a vehicle from a private seller now and I’d always get the RAC/AA to check over any vehicles in future. Lesson learned the hard way!
That is going a bit far. It's now 16 years since I have bought from a (well respected) trader, but I have bought several cars privately without any problems. Of course it will depend a great deal on the kind of vehicle and the cost involved, but saying Never Buy Privately is a bit like Never Buy A German (or French) Car.
Basically it comes down (again) to Caveat Emptor. You have to be either careful or lucky - hopefully both.
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Oh there’s always one isn’t there?! Everyone else has been kind and super helpful SMH.
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Oh there’s always one isn’t there?! Everyone else has been kind and super helpful SMH.
Sorry if you've taken offence, I'm not trying to offend. I won't worry about the meaning of SMH.
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SMH - Shaking my head! I’m actually not offended it’s just I came on here for help and advice neither of which you offered just a pointless opinion of your own. I updated my case so as to repay the favour in case anyone else might find themselves in my situation. Just be nice to people ok?!
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I came on here for help and advice neither of which you offered just a pointless opinion of your own. I updated my case so as to repay the favour in case anyone else might find themselves in my situation. Just be nice to people ok?!
I wasn't being nice or nasty, so just ignore if you don't like. Maybe you haven't noticed that threads on here can drift a bit into sometimes unrelated exchanges.
Hope you get an amicable result for your difficulties.
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OP- congratulations on a great result.
Could I suggest it may be more helpful to advise to never buy from a dealer posing as a private seller?
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Thank you Robert, appreciate your good wishes! Tbh until this week I literally had no idea of the different laws governing buyers rights regarding private vs dealer sales - I do now lol! I’m happy with the outcome as I love the van, it’s a beautiful conversion, so alls well that ends well. Hopefully this thread might help someone else out in the future!
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When I looked at this thread yesterday there was a spam posting and it looked like the op's post was in response to that one.
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When I looked at this thread yesterday there was a spam posting and it looked like the OP's post was in response to that one.
Ah, never saw that. Apologies if I misread the situation.
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Nothing wrong with buying from a genuine private seller. I much favour doing so with cheaper used cars. You get to meet the owner directly and can ask questions rather than being fed a load of lies from a salesman who’s 99 times out of 100 never met the last owner and you get to see their home, which tells you plenty about their finances and attitude to maintenance. A dealer selling a £5k car will be looking for a margin of about £1,500 to cover their costs, vat and a profit margin so you’re really getting £3,500 worth of car at best, while a private sale should be substantially cheaper and the seller more willing to negotiate. Most warranties on cars older than 7yrs are next to worthless anyway.
On the other side of the argument, you do have some legal protections when buying from a dealer, but those of them who typically flog older cars are usually well versed in dodging their responsibilities here and even if you do find a good one you’ll be paying a substantial amount extra for it.
It’s easy enough to spot a fly trader masquerading as a private punter, on initial contact ask if the car is registered to them at their home address and they have the full V5, if it isn’t then 99% of the time it’ll be a dealer. Don’t accept any “it’s my father/mother in laws car” etc etc, they’re almost always lies. Only buy if it’s registered to the seller at the address you view it at.
Edited by SLO76 on 30/10/2024 at 14:44
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You’re right, there are pros and cons to both. With this van I did meet the sellers at their property, their name and address was on the V5 and I’d paid for a pre check to make sure it hadn’t been written off and was not under finance etc.
I actually don’t think they were bad people, the main issue was the van failed the MOT on light bulbs and dangerous tyres. The seller told me in an email that they had been fixed and I thought well of course or else it wouldn’t have passed the MOT. I don’t think they did check just accepted the word of the person they bought the van from to convert as I did with them.
That’s the scary bit, somewhere along the line my vehicle was given a full MOT when it was actually dangerous to drive re the tyres and the n/s/f ball joint is also in a dangerous condition.
I know once every thing has been fixed I’ll have a great little campervan which is mechanically sound but this whole experience has really taught me a lesson!
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