Michael White posted a notice about the Mini recall.
Michael, I've deleted this. All the relevant details are here on the news page. Thanks for your efforts.
Martyn
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thanks Martyn. I trust you also extracted the useful market research data about your customers behaviour when using this site. Irrespective of how the designer wold like it to be used, its how the people actually use it that counts. Personally, I spend next to no time on the front page and head for the forum. Useful info when designing your site of the future. You could pay market research companys a lot of money for this type of data.
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Yes, I know this is the case. Our stats show us how important the forum is. Once again, I'd like to thanks you, and apologise for changing the thread.
Martyn
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I tried to e-mail the following to Michael who started this thread diverting Backroomers to another website to read news which was already posted on this one. But the e-mail address he gave didn't work.
Dear Michael,
What is more important than anything else is the potential to make money from the honest john site. Unless someone steps in and sponsors The Backroom to the tune of £100,000 a year or so, it can't be sustained. The news page, on the other hand, has the potential to make money by linking to other sites and providing them with business which they start to depend on and ultimately pay for. If a Backroomer fails to spot a news item on the honestjohn site, then directs other Backroomers to another site to pick up that news than I will instruct Martyn to remove that thread because it's taking the bread out of my mouth. Nothing is for nothing indefinitely.
HJ
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Could I suggest then, that there was an e-mail address which people could e-mail with news and then you would be able to decide;
1) Its already on the site
2) Its not on the site, but its not important
3) Its not on the site and if I add it I'll even more chance of earning money
Otherwise, from my point of view, if I spot something, I may not post it because I don't have time to check the whole site. We could miss out on stuff.
Either way, beating up on Michael for trying to help was a bit rough.
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Thanks for the comment HJ. I have no problem with you doing whatever you wish with your site, however, some points to consider:
1 - from a business perspective, I find it works best to adapt the business to the way customers use it rather than try to force customers to use it in a particular way (within reason of course).
2 - given that I did not deliberately try to steer people away from this site, in fact quite the opposite is true, a more pragmatic approach may be to consider why did I not spot the story on the news page here before I posted the link I had seen elsewhere. The answer is that I was perusing the BBC newspages (as usual) and spotted a story which I thought was interesting (not because it was a recall but because it was a recall on a car that was over three decades old and seemed a little unusual). I decided to post it on the forum to see if anyone had any views.
Why did I not see the article on the HJ newspage? Don't know, but I didn't. It did not attract my attention. Simple as that.
This may or may not be a failing of mine but given the importance of the news page to the revenue generating prospects of this site, it may be useful to consider more effective ways of attracting peoples attention (maybe a headlines link from the forum ...maybe a ticker tape on the top of the forum page).
Either way, I suggest there are more effective ways of increasing the news page readership than deleting posts from well meaning folk.
With regard to my email address, you are right, it no longer works because the isp withdrew the service following a virus attack. I have not updated it, although Martyn has my new details.
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HJ, If I understand correctly you seem to have a problem with folks posting links to other sites. OK its your site and I am totally happy to go with whatever you wish as long as I understand the rules.
Assuming that there is some information on another site which is of interest or answers a question, does that mean you then want the actual information copied and pasted into this site? That might mean ending up with some mega posts.
To follow up on another thread from ages ago about how to improve the profile of the site, how about a Backroomers team in Scrapheap Challenge? Must be some ace bodgers......er..... engineers here. What d'ya fink guys n gals?
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> That might mean ending up with some mega posts.
and some very interesting copyright issues.........
> To follow up on another thread from ages ago about how to
> improve the profile of the site, how about a Backroomers team
> in Scrapheap Challenge? Must be some ace bodgers......er.....
> engineers here. What d'ya fink guys n gals?
I'd love to. I can weld but I don't know anything about engines which comes after pushrods, tappets and points gaps. But count me in for welding pieces of metal to each other, just so long as you don't want me to understand why.
Still, I could probably carry the ice box for the rest of you.
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Sorry Mark started another thread with the Scrapheap challenge bit, thought this might get lost down here.
S
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Well, as anyone watching BBC Top Gear tonight will have realised, the BBC is promoting its own motoring website, and it's precisely that site which you were being directed to.
HJ
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Both Martyn and I have repeatedly tried to e-mail Michael at the e-mail address he has posted and it has never worked. Had it worked, I could have had a private e-mail conversation with him, but it never worked. So it's hardly surprising that I am deeply suspicious of him. However, what he has done has made me realise that either The Backroom has to carry links to other parts of this website, or a restriction has to be brought in so that The Backroom can only be accessed via a news item. The alternative is for a sponsor with £100,000 a year to step in and sponsor The Backroom so it can be kept the way it is or the way Backroomers want it.
HJ
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HJ,
No need to worry about the BBC website, considering the backing they have it's very poor....visually and the content.
David
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I reckon this is an inherent problem with forums like this. They tend to be the bit of a site that has the most regular visitors (that is, people who visit regularly). They won't like advertising on the forum, I suspect, yet most of them will have exhausted the "fixed" bits of the rest of the website, so will tend not to visit the main page except as a way in here (and maybe not even then). Yet from an advertiser's point of view it's not the regulars I'd be much interested in (they are quite few in number), but rather a large number of different people, many of whom may only visit once a month or so. What I'm trying to say is that as long as people from outside the "forum regulars" visit the site I don't think you have too much problem with the forum pointing people elsewhere, because the forum visitors are quite a small select crew. If what you're saying is that the forum regulars make up most of the total number of visitors to the site, then you do have a problem.
As someone who spends quite a bit of time professionally doing research on the internet, and is also involved in reference publishing, I think the "fixed" content (car-by car breakdown etc.) is excellent; it's well-presented, concise and informative. But most people are only going to visit for that stuff once in a while (I tend to buy cars only every few years, so I only need the "breakdown" that often - I know, I know, there's more to it than that, but I think the point applies elsewhere as well). The news element is interesting and useful, but (in the nature of the beast) it doesn't change that often (for a website front page), certainly not every day, and that means most people who use the site won't see it as a potential homepage. I think the site does what it does well, but I don't see it having wide popular (beyond the trade) appeal unless it goes in more directions - more general interest motoring material, regular columns etc. In short, I think it has to behave more like a popular magazine, and it has to advertise itself as well.
I don't mean to be negative, and I'm sure most of what I've said you already know, but I'd like to see this site survive - independent, savvy advice is hard to come by.
Best
Chris
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HJ, for the record, Martyn and I have exchanged several emails in the recent past, however, I will write to you directly to try and clear this up.
I am completely aghast at the idea that you view me with suspicion. I have always tried to promote this site and tried to defend it against the type of behaviour that drives people away.
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Michael,
Just to try and pour some oil on troubled waters.....
It must wind HJ up a bit that he/they/whoever invests time and money in producing an ace site, and then all "we" use it for is the banter. The commercial side of the Internet is still a very dodgy issue and I hope HJ is one of the winners in the end.
A quick search back at you last 25 posts shows good intent/input so I would not have put you on the ? list.
David
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More oil.....
Can I suggest that we let this go as just one of those things that happen with electronic communication when we cannot see each other ?
HJ does have a point, he and Martyn are working very hard for this to be successful for us and profitable for them. This is a tough job, and certainly in the last few weeks, they have had some serious "challenges" to deal with so sensitivity is understandable.
Michael posted a note which he didn't expect to offend, but as a result we have all learned the preferred approach to other websites - which is fine by me.
Lets just carry on.
M.
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thanks David, I'm a little dazed (let alone surprised and confused) at the beating I have just taken so your comments are much appreciated.
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In answer to Stuart B, I have no problem with Backroomers posting URLs of other interesting sites. My problem is with a Backroomer who directed others to another site when the news he directed them to was on this one. So it's fine to tell everyone else about interesting things elsewhere, just as long as you've made a fair attempt at checking that it isn't already on this site.
HJ
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Many thanks for that, Chris. Your points are taken. There will be a lot of changes to the site over the next few months (my partners have to get an important trade fair over with first). All practical suggestions will be gratefully received. As would be any genuine sponsorship enquiries. My view has always been that businesses should only ever pay for website promotions that directly benefit them. Car sales from links are a direct benefit. But so would be sales of insurance policies or whatever from a banner link on The Backroom.
HJ
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