Well, that dreaded time has arived - my son will be 17 in a few months. Unfortunately, neither of my cars will be suitable for learning in due to the high insurance.
Having done a search on this site with no useful results, perhaps I could have some advice please! Above all else, the car must be as safe as possible - image is irrelevant. Cheapness to run, partucarly wrt insurance, and reliability is important. My budget would be no more than £1500 assuming that I sell one of my beloved Saabs. I have my own thoughts, but perhaps the serried ranks of wise backroomers can confirm them?
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Not bad, two typos there - should obviously be First car, and I can spell particularly (eventually).
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My brothers son has passed his test 13 months ago.He bought a fiesta 1.1 hoping the insurance was low but had a shock.£1780 to insure
car was £250 being a G reg and the car is reliable having had it for a year and no problems SO far.Can`t say the same for a lot at that age.
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I recently had to get a cheap vehicle for a visitor. I didn't wanted to spend any more than I had to, but it needed to be clean and reliable.
I went to two garages who deal in vehicles in the £2000 - £10,000 price range and asked if they had any trade-ins that were too old for them to sell.
I had a choice of a whole raft of vehicles - some of which were well worth having for the £300 - £500 he was asking.
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We cracked this chestnut with a Daewoo Matiz. Group 2 insurance, 5 doors, bags of space front and back, v.frugal, quite well put togetherand surprisingly quick and fun to drive. You should j-u-s-t be able to find an early one for your budget and most have actually been driven all their lives by the aged; the rude boys haven't discovered them yet. The inclusive servicing package means that they were well serviced (ok, I know we're talking Halfords here).
With only 'introductory' NCB The insurance will still be £400-500, we were looking for TPT&F quotes which Norwich Union Direct wouldn't quote but came up on fully Comp only £27 more than the cheapest TPF&T.
Since passing the test he more or less lives in the Matiz. It has even won round the peer group from an initial 'urgh, it's a granny wagon' to 'it's cool and well funky'; can't say higher than that for it. Whatever, its gonna'be trauma time. Best of luck.
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N or P reg Punto 55SX is what I'd get, they're well galvanised so little problems with corrosion as long as it hasn't been accident repaired. Everything's simple and straight forward but not at all agricultural or crude.
Check the NCAP website for safety results of the cars you choose from.
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Aren't the older Corsas and Micras supposed to work out cheaply in the insurance stakes?
Fill what's empty, empty what's full and scratch where it itches!
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I learnt to drive last year in a P reg Rover 100 / Metro with a nice little 1.5 diesel under the hood. Excusing the appalling safety record (good incentive not to crash) it was a surprising nice car. Fairly nippy, comfy and 60-70MPG. I paid £1600 for the car and then £600 insurance. (Third party as a named driver.)
I then bought a Citroen Xsara 1.9TD (the West Coast version... only a few of them, if you see a hideous gold one it's probably mine!) for £4000 with insurance going up to £800 (fully comp as named driver). Happy with both choices. A diesel is a good choice to learn in as you can make mistakes with gears and not suffer too badly. The Xsara is practically unstallable in 1st gear and I have no problems moving away barely touching the accelerator in 2nd gear.
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"I then bought a Citroen Xsara 1.9TD (the West Coast version... only a few of them, if you see a hideous gold one it's probably mine!) for £4000 with insurance going up to £800 (fully comp as named driver)."
....but it's worth bearing in mind, MikeH, that as a named driver on someone else (mum or dad's?) insurance David won't be gaining NCD's for himself at the moment, unless he cuts a very good deal with his insurers when he comes to take the insurance as his own. I'm sure he's aware of this and it's entirely his choice to do it this way, but personally id rather start gaining NCD from the moment i get behind the wheel.
Personally the first thing i'd do is pick out a few cars with super-low insurance groups, from 1 through to say, 4, from www.parkers.co.uk
Next i would run these cars through online quoting services, to discover the difference each ins group makes
The idea is that any car in the same insurance group should cost the same to insure, so that if you save £400 by insuring a 1.1 M reg Peugeot 106 (group 2 IIRC) over a 1.1 M reg Ford Fiesta (group 4), you'll know about it
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Nissan Micra.
Cheap to run, cheap to insure, very reliable, and there are 1000s to choose from.
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Problem here may be moderating young lad's need for the right street cred. Micras are seen as girly, aren't they? If not, go for one.
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Strikes me that any car stopping a 17 year old seeking street cred is the best to get. Go for the Micra. Great car!
Splodgeface
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Thanks for all the tips. I'm a bit surprised no-one's mentioned a Polo (or if they did, I missed it). Not that I'm particularly worried!
Personally I'm not keen on small cars, prefering something bigger and (probably safer) - my current cars are a chipped Saab 9-5 and a 9000 2.3 turbo - hence the question! Looks like the 9000 will have to go & I'll have to get something smaller for the station commute & said son to learn in. I also intend for him to take the Pass Plus - think that's what it's called, don't know anything about it yet.
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Pass Plus - IIRC, £120, should save it's own value in the first years insurance. Check that your chosen insurer gives a discount for it, though, as some may not in which case the money (if not the experience gained) will be wasted.
I'm fairly sure Micra's and 106's are cheaper to insure than Polo's, but i could be wrong
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If you want a larger car that is still affordable for a 17 year old to insure, how about a 1.3 Escort Encore or something like that?
Cheap to fix, reliable if you keep up the basic maintenence, and very cheap to insure for a larger car. It's got cred too! :-)
You could get a fairly late model Encore with the budget that you have, or if you can afford the little extra on insurance, then the 1.6 LX is great, my friend learned to drive in his and had no complaints, I think it's better to learn to drive in a larger car, that way you don't have any worries about changing to a large car in later life. I've got friends who won't consider anything bigger than a Micra on the grounds that they wouldn't know how to drive a large car!
Blue
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Mike - diesels are usually cheaper to insure than the equivalent petrol, and use less fuel too. How about an elderly ZX or 306? - with history, of course?
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Oddly ZX costs more to insure than equivalent 306 but can cost thousands less.
ZX diesels are very cheap (to buy and run) and would make a good first car if you can afford the insurance.
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How about a Nissan Almera? A few to be had at £1200 - £1400, not a bad car to drive, horribly reliable and reasonable credibility. Insurance group 4, but may prove cheaper to insure than some of the "yoof" target cars such as Nova/Corsa/Saxo because of perceived risk profile. Strangers things have happened!
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Ah... this is indeed timely! Same scenario only for 18-year-old daughter. She passed test last Sept, was heading off to Uni, decided against it (saved me a wadload), now wants to spend it on some 'wheels'!
I had a look at an 'R' plate Punto over the weekend - 56,000, wants £2K! Daughter, however, likes the look of the Clio!
Quick call to insurers suggests PassPlus certificate fairly essential in order to get any realistic quotes?
It's at times like this that I positively hate being a parent! ...
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When I first got a car the consideration was mainly one of safety and what would survive a crash. I know that things can get very expensive with insurance and running costs but isn't the safety aspect more important?
For what it's worth I started driving in a Volvo 340, which was ideal. Not too fast, (supposedly) built to last and strongish in an impact. I am not sure what subsequent Volvos are like on the safety side of things and whether they are safer than any other make of car of the same size but if they are better than a 440 or S40 might be worth considering.
After all a 17yo doesn't really mind too much what they drive as long as it has got wheels and a stereo. By the time they are 18yo they will be coverting flasher cars!
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First car I bought myself was my Xantia TD. It was a great price considering the equipment level - the same if not cheaper than the equivilent aged 1.0 litre shoebox with windup windows - and at insurance group 9 it doesn't cost the earth to insure. If you insure with Norwich Union after doing Pass Plus, they'll cut the quote on half. Friend of mine was paying £1125 TPFT to insure a 2.5 V6 Omega CD in his own name at the age of 17.
Sure, my Xantia has zero street cred, but its comfortable, reliable, nice to drive, not sluggish, and not a Vauxhall Corsa.
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RE: Insurance as named driver.
I'm with CIS and they're kindly giving me a no claims bonus as a named driver, which I can then take on to another insurance company if I want.
Yup, I really like my Xsara. It might not have much street-cred like a Corsa (snigger) but it does what I want and is a damn sight more comfortable. It'll cruise happily between 70-80 and still has loads of grunt for overtaking. It sounds a little unhappy over 80 though, so I rarely go that fast.
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Insurance is going to be the main factor for a car for a 17 year old so i would suggest not even considering looking at any car higher than a group 5 (even that is too high). Ideally 4 and under. I would also not bother spending too much either such as less than £1000 (plenty of good cars at this price) and definately something that isn't fast! When i passed my test 2 years ago my dad wouldn't let have anything bigger than a 1.2 and said that a 205 1.9 turbo diesel was too fast for me! You really don't want him spending all his money on car insurance as he is going to want to start going out to pub etc at this age (or in my case already started going drinking!;))! and believe me when your a young lad they're are so much better things to spend your money on that car insurance! A cheaper more basic car will be cheaper to run and allow him to learn some basic car maintanence and get some no claims in his own name so he can afford a decent car when hes a bit older.
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20 yr old Landrover. Classic insurance and it doesn't matter when he hits something!
OK I'll get my coat...
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Oh BTW. Check the servicing costs for the Micra. I had an owner bleating to me that it was very expensive.
They tend to be favoured by old duffers so expect it to smell of wee.
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I think they tend to be more favoured by driving schools and youngish ladies? ex-Driving school ones may be a bit iffy.
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"20 yr old Landrover. Classic insurance and it doesn't matter when he hits something!"
I like that idea for my two.
Trouble is the one I just found on Autotrader (series 2) is 41 yrs old (as old as me) and 2.25ltr so the insurance could be a problem!.
zillions of 1 ltr micras around, just have to find a non-smelly one.
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Before I got my Volvo 340 I had use of a Land Rover which was then about 20 years old. I would say that I enjoyed my freedom and drove it far too fast. The brakes wer terrible and for a novice driver the handling/safety was very bad. I would not advise this as a first car
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Surprised no-one has yet mentioned a Ka. I know nowt about them but they look like they could be a good first car.
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.....If you like rusting subframes and prehistoric pushrod engines, no room in the back and all your mates laughing at you.....
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ND,
Fair enough! And now I know more about them!!
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But on the plus side, all the bad ones have rusted away by now :-)
I've gotta be honest, the Ka has more cred and better performance than some of the cars mentioned but shouldn't cost more to run. It's reasonably safe as well for a car of it's size, but not a patch on something like an Escort.
Good car to consider really.
Blue
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RE: Insurance as named driver with CIS
David I think you are incorrect with regards the no claims situation. I am also with CIS as a named driver (but down as the main user of the car) and have been for two years. I was intrigued by your claim of CIS giving you a NCD even though you are a named driver so i got in contact with them and this was the response that was emailed to me:
'Unfortunately we could not offer you any No Claim Discount based on you being a named driver on a policy. We may be able to offer you a higher introductory offer if you meet certain criteria. To get 45% you would need to be 26 and over, been driving for 4 years with no claims and have no more
than 1 speeding offence. If you are 25 you could have 35% using the above criteria.'
I thought your post sounded a bit too good to be true! If that was the case do you not think that every young driver in the country would be insured with CIS as a named driver for a fraction of the cost of having their own policy while at the same time earning a NCD? I wish it had been true as I'm looking to start a policy in my own name at the moment and having some NCD would have reduced what I'll be paying significantly.
All the best, John
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Mike H.
After all the various opinion in this thread, please do let us all know what you actually do buy and what the insurances costs.
All the best.
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It's been interesting following it! I still have a few months to go so it will be decision time then....and assuming I remember I'll reactivate this thread.
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Well, I promised I'd let you know what happened so.....
Today I collected a 1996 Renault megane 1.4 intended for use as my commuting car, and for said son to practice his driving. I chose this on the basis of its 4* NCAP rating and the insurance. Insurance costs were high if he insured it in his name - somewhere over £2200! I have ended up paying paying £994 through Aon, as my wife and I are IAM members - this is with a 4-yr protected NCB. When he passes his test and his pass plus, and probably becomes the main user, then will be the time to start accumulaing NCB of hsi own.
Ultimately, the Megane was a bargain for what I wanted at £1000, other options were just too expensive. Meganes in general do look like good value at the moment. Just hope it lasts out!
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You bought a car becuase of its NCAP rating?
I guess thats useful if you drive in areas where there are specifically sized blocks of concrete for you to drive into at 30mph, but in the real world, I'd suggest the validity of the NCAP testing to be strictly limited - useful, but certainly at the bottom of the list when choosing a car.
Whilst I'm sure your Megane has a better NCAP rating than an old Volvo 940, I'd take the Volvo if the two were to have an accident with each other.
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Understand the point you are making - but read the car-by-car breakdown on this site regarding death rates. Bear in mind also that insuring a Volvo 940 for a 17-year old on provisional licence would be near on impossible. I drive a Saab 9-5 and 9000, and I would far rather he drove something like these or the Volvo you mention but simply not possible at the moment. Just a san example, the old 'classic' Saab 900 had a high 7 out of 10 death rate, the Megane a low 3 - but I bet you'd have put money on the Saab without having the facts in front of you.
I would rather he drive the Megane, with proven crash safety, rather than a beaten up old Fiesta riddled with rust, purely based on criteria such as cheapness to buy and fix etc. - but I value my son's life too much.
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When my son passed the test and wanted a car I offered him my third car - a 37K miles K reg Panda with loads of MOT and tax - and I offered it to him for free. He turned it down. Instead he bought a rustbucket 115K miles K reg Clio for £1,300 and paid £1,800 a year to insure it. Reason - it looked good. I drove the panda to work & back for 2 more years at a cost of hardly anything.
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I wasn't suggesting a 940 as a first car - infact I cannot think of many cars less suitable - merely using it as an example to show that the NCAP testing is, in my opinion, not all it's cracked up to be and as a result of this I certainly would not base my purchasing decision on it.
Real world crashes are rarely anything like the simulated, lab condition precise crashes that NCAP do, IMHO.
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Thats strange I must have copied the wrong message into the box. Peter
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Thats strange I must have copied the wrong message into the box. Peter
What message into what wrong box?
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