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You have to know your stuff AND be lucky to get a good one. However, you don't need to be a mechanic; there are plenty of very simple checklists you can download if you want to give a car a thorough inspection.
Autotrader and Cinch are very different animals. Autotrader allows anyone to sell anything; Cinch are selling the cars themselves. They are generally ex-fleet cars with decent history and they have a decent reputation. Ultimately, it's a car supermarket but online.
Talking of car supermarkets, Motorpoint have a good reputation but all car supermarkets have perhaps been pushed out by Cinch and don't seem to have the best stock anymore. As I said before, I'd avoid them if you don't like pressure; selling you finance and warranties is how they make their money.
In fairness to your Toyota dealer, they're probably right and a hybrid would be better. As I also mentioned before, try a more rural standalone dealership.
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They may have a point, but I dislike car salesmen (it usually is men) who want to argue with you about what they do for a living (and therefore know a lot more than you about) rather than sell what you want. A lot of my problem is simply not finding a salesperson I like and trust. It makes an amazing difference to me. I bought a Kia last time because he was the only saleperson I liked and trusted out of all the dealerships I visited. Sadly he no longer seems to work there and the only salesperson I've really been impressed with this time was a lady in Volvo, but they are sadly too pricey by a long shot.
Your advice about a standalone dealership is good thanks. Hopefully they'll be less carsalesmen like in a place like that. It always amazes me they aren't better. I won't say which specific garage but Ford were the worst 10-years ago and hadn't really changed when I visited recently. They actually seemed reluctant to sell me a car, like they were doing me a favour, which is a shame as the Ford Focus Estate ticks a lot of boxes.
Thanks again for the advice.
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I do sympathise. Having gone through the process a few times recently, I am always similarly at a loss as to what sales people think they're doing. Of the many dealers I visited, there were only two or three that I was willing to do business with.
There are a few things I noticed as a pattern for the worst ones:
1. Arranging to send you a personalised video
2. Asking if you want to pay a £99 deposit to hold the car before viewing
3. Making you sit at a desk and do 'compliance' stuff for finance before they'll let you look at the car.
4. Showroom hosts
5. Fat angry men in side offices with white boards.
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I do sympathise. Having gone through the process a few times recently, I am always similarly at a loss as to what sales people think they're doing. Of the many dealers I visited, there were only two or three that I was willing to do business with.
There are a few things I noticed as a pattern for the worst ones:
1. Arranging to send you a personalised video
2. Asking if you want to pay a £99 deposit to hold the car before viewing
3. Making you sit at a desk and do 'compliance' stuff for finance before they'll let you look at the car.
4. Showroom hosts
5. Fat angry men in side offices with white boards.
That made me laugh, thanks. The reason I kept my previous car for ten years wasn't financial reasons, but how much I hate the process of buying a car in the UK. I'm not alone in this and I don't understand why people tolerate this Swiss Tony culture nor why multinational car companies think that is the best way to sell cars. If just one dealership opened that didn't act this way, was 100% honest, priced cars as cheaply as possible (like virtually any other product except houses but then Estate Agents are a seperate rant) they'd make an absolute fortune. They must exist somewhere.
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That made me laugh, thanks. The reason I kept my previous car for ten years wasn't financial reasons, but how much I hate the process of buying a car in the UK. I'm not alone in this and I don't understand why people tolerate this Swiss Tony culture nor why multinational car companies think that is the best way to sell cars. If just one dealership opened that didn't act this way, was 100% honest, priced cars as cheaply as possible (like virtually any other product except houses but then Estate Agents are a separate rant) they'd make an absolute fortune. They must exist somewhere.
They do, in West Yorkshire, but not selling NEW cars from glass palaces.
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A lot of my problem is simply not finding a salesperson I like and trust. It makes an amazing difference to me.
I'm afraid you have to get over this little difficulty. I agree that it is nice to deal with someone you 'like and trust', but you are only doing a business deal when that is not really essential. It would be quite possible to get a better deal from a less likeable person than a nice one. Just talk about the car(s) and try to ignore the personal traits of the salesman ! Unless he/she is really unpleasant of course.
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When I bought our Jazz 12 years ago, I had to listen to a sales spiel for supertreating upholstery, etc etc etc. I just mentally ignored it all and refused to budge..
I treat sales people as a necessary evil: polite but firm .
Glad I don't bu cars often.
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Fair point about not having to like them, but I have to trust them to risk what is the second biggest financial spend after buying a house. Call me old fashioned, but once a sales person is exposed as having lied to me, that's it for me, the trust has gone and I walk away.
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They will ALL lie to you. The scale of the lie varies, but not a single one will tell.you the truth.
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Ah car salesman…I hate them with passion…..
I walked in to see Skoda Fabia few months ago. The car was advertised for £8299. However, the price on the windscreen was £8699 when I went to see the car in their forecourt. The salesman said, the website price is wrong and it is £8699 plus VED and £20 Petrol….and he started to talk about additional extended warranty…..I challenged him saying that Skoda UK website clearly stated the every Skoda Approved Used car comes with 1 year warranty and 1 year road assistance, VED included. He kept saying that’s not the case for the car I’m interested. I asked him about £20 petrol charge….
Me: I’m not paying £20 petrol charge.
Sales: Oh every car comes with empty tank so we have to charge customer £20 and we fill some petrol in….
Me: Don’t bother. There’s Shell 500m down the road from here.
Sales: I don’t think you can’t get there….
Me: I can bring jelly can with me then…
Sales: You can’t bring in petrol in our premise for Health & Safety Reason.
Me: That’s fine. I’ll do it outside in the street.
Sales:…..
It’s the same story when I went to see Honda Jazz…..I clearly told him I’m only interested in 1.3 Petrol, Manual and Silver/Grey post 18/68 reg, and less than £12k. Every day he called me if I’m interested in Red car or Automatic etc….
I just don’t know how to deal with these people…If the salesperson is playing the fool or genuinely fool. Should I play the game ? To be honest, I really can’t be bothered…
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Imagine if just one didn't lie? Imagine how incredibly successful that salesroom would be? The reason this happens is we tolerate it, we just shrug our shoulders and accept it as normal. I've walked away, I'm not encouraging this. I'd rather be without a car than lied to and ripped off. Come on entrepreneurs, there's an enormous opportunity here. I've now got 20k to spend and literally can't find an honest dealer to spend it at. I really just don't get this mentality of this is the way it is, deal with it. Its this way because of we accept it and still give them our hard earned cash. Don't.
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Imagine if just one didn't lie? Imagine how incredibly successful that salesroom would be? The reason this happens is we tolerate it, we just shrug our shoulders and accept it as normal. I've walked away, I'm not encouraging this. I'd rather be without a car than lied to and ripped off. Come on entrepreneurs, there's an enormous opportunity here. I've now got 20k to spend and literally can't find an honest dealer to spend it at. I really just don't get this mentality of this is the way it is, deal with it. Its this way because of we accept it and still give them our hard earned cash. Don't.
What sort of lies are you getting from them? if I want a car I simply go to the deal say I want that car and buy it. There is no pint where they can lie to me as I don't ask them any questions.
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Only because we tolerate that and still give them out money.
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As an ex salesman myself I believe I have a good insight into the people in the trade… they are 99.99% lying b******s!
I left because I hated the way things were going, the old school salesmen of old who knew about cars were being replaced by younger greedier types who were trained to push push push financial products on you. To tell you anything to get a sale in the bag. The worst I find are almost kids who know absolutely nothing about cars beyond setting up the tech inside. They’re not interested in you or a bit of car chat. I love cars, but I hate shopping for them at dealers. Standards have slipped hugely over the last 25/30 years. Agree totally about needing to like the person you’re buying from.
Edited by SLO76 on 16/05/2024 at 20:23
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... the old school salesmen of old who knew about cars were being replaced by younger greedier types .... Standards have slipped hugely over the last 25/30 years.
Maybe I am just years out of date - I haven't bought from a car salesperson since December 2008. That was at a Peugeot dealer which had been a family business for over a century, and I think it may still be.
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Everyone I know and work with is similar. They now hang on to their cars as long as possible to avoid the UK car market. There's millions out there not being spent. As I've been saying for 20 years a dealership that was different would clean up. But then you come across that weird UK mindset that accepts this as the normal and anyone who dislikes it as being idealistic and difficult. We get what we deserve.
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As I've been saying for 20 years a dealership that was different would clean up.
But maybe the situation you describe proves that to be a business model that doesn't work ? Or possibly that someone working by it finds it more profitable to abandon it ? Or (just possibly, I suppose) anyone doing that is 'got at' by all the crooked competitors ? :-)
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Thanks for all the advice. Still no progress. Thought I'd found a good option with a Kia pre-reg Ceed estate, 12 miles on the clock available from a local dealership but above our budget. However the dealers will not even come down £1 on the list price! Is this normal now?
NO - a year ago yes, not now though things are moving on. Nearly new bargains are appearing.
Edited by Big John on 16/05/2024 at 21:33
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So I recently bought a BMW 530E 2019. I was after specific max mileage, 1 owner, full BMW service history and a few options Id prefer (Harman/Karden) sound system, automatic tailgate, hogh beam assist etc. I went to Motorpoint Burnley and was pleasantly suprised, no hard sell, but no negotion on cars either, I was buying outright had already sorted finance myself and they were ok with that. Turns out the car they had listed had just been sold to another motorpoint in the country and I'd just missed it, but not an unpleasant experience like some car supermarkets...
On to Oakdene collection in Derby which I found on Autotrader. Had the car I wanted and spec in the peice I wanted to pay. Now this worked a little different, you pay £300 (Fully refudable if you dont want the car), arrange a day to view it the week after, No pushiness salesman on the phone, actually got me a better deal than my loan when I was asked him to check anyway. They give you an appointment time, coffee, sandwich etc when you get there, take you to the car in a showrrom area with bright lights everywhere so you can fully inspect every inch of the car, sign a paper for insurance and they let you go on a test drive on your own. The car was exactly as described, I decided I wanted it, signed a bit more paper work and drove away in the hour. Loving the car, followed up woth 2 courtsey calls to check all was ok. Was different way of buyng the car than Id normally do (Car supermarket where every warrenty, paint wax protection was constantly pushed on me), this was appointment only at a large garges / offices but I can't fault it, nothing was pushed on me they asked if theres any extras I wanted, sent me videos and I decided. The owner of the place even checked I was happy how i'd been dealt with. Maybe Im one of the lucky ones, but actually enjoyed this car, and I can't knock Motorpoint either, they were pretty good, there not all out to get you, I think theres some decent people in the business still.
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This is how I spent my afternoon and it differs from the Motorpoint experience above quite a bit. I'd love to mention which Kia chain dealerships but better not due to liability issues.
I'd found some pre-Reg 73 plate Kias with just 9 - 12 miles on the clock for sale in a Yorkshire branch of the same chain of Kia dealers that is local to me in Lancashire. These were the Kia Estates I wanted and there were several for sale as pre-reg cars in the Yorkshire dealership. They were on sale about 20 - 23k depending on spec, 5k less than a new 24 plates, so seemed a good deal to me and were essentially brand new cars. They refused to budge even a fiver on the price but I was willing to pay it as they seemed a good deal and I'm getting desperate for a new car now. However, when I requested they be sent to my local dealership so I could test drive and check on out before purchase the Yorkshire salesman said they can't do that as the delivery driver only does "door to door" deliveries to my home. I'm unwilling to buy a car I've not first checked out and driven so this was not acceptable to me. They seemed to find this odd and kept assuring me it would be fine as it was a new car and I wouldn't get to test drive a 24 plate anyway (but then I wouldn't buy it).
With this in mind I went back to my local Lancashire dealers, met with the manager and explained that for some reason the Yorkshire dealership were unwilling to send a car to their sister dealership in Lancashire. On previous visits to this dealership they'd said they could get any car listed on their national website delivered (for a fee). I met the manager and expected him to just call the Yorkshire dealership and get it sorted as this was the only thing stopping the sale. I have 20k in my bank account and was willing to put a deposit down there and then if they could get the car across as they previously said they could. Instead it was immediately obvious he had no intention of selling me a car. I was with him for almost an hour whilst he explained what made no sense to me. That was that the Yorkshire branch are selling these cars at a loss of several thousand and he would take that loss on to the Lancashire branch if it were delivered to them. To me they are all the same company and surely the loss would impact them all anyway, if this were true. But he said they operated as a franchise and had individual budgets to balance and kept talking about strategic purchases and how these loss making cars would be a strategic purchase on the part of Yorkshire and they couldn't take on a loss from them.
Anyway, after an hour of this nonsense I walked away. To be fair to him he did show me what they paid for the cars and what they sold them for and how they had to clear 12% profit and that these would make a 2-3k loss based on the retail price of a brand new car. But what didn't dawn on me until the drive home was these weren't new cars, these were 73 plates and therefore not worth the retail value he used to show me they were being sold at a loss.
It was clear from the moment I walked in today that he had no intention of selling me a car. It is just bizarre! I can only assume that is because I'm paying cash and not PCP. But it felt like I was told a pack of lies and they lost a loyal customer desperate to buy a car from them. How they maintain a business this way I have no idea. I'm guessing dealerships are sellers of finance now, not cars and just don't want cash customers. But surely they are obligated to share cars between different branches of the same company?
No idea what to do now, other makes are too expensive unless I risk a second hand chance and I'm just very unlucky that way as stated before. I can't tell you how frustrating this is, I have the cash, I want a car, but they just don't want to do anything to help me purchase one.
All idea welcome on ways forward, is it worth going to this dealerships head office and showed them how the different dealerships are not honouring the network and actually working against each other to the detriment of the company?
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No idea what to do now, other makes are too expensive unless I risk a second hand chance and I'm just very unlucky that way as stated before. I can't tell you how frustrating this is, I have the cash, I want a car, but they just don't want to do anything to help me purchase one.
All idea welcome on ways forward, is it worth going to this dealerships head office and showed them how the different dealerships are not honouring the network and actually working against each other to the detriment of the company?
If you don't like the way you are being treated by the sales staff, then walk away (or better still RUN).
If you buy a nearly new Kia, then you'll have to keep using these clowns for servicing (for 7 years) to keep the warranty. In my experience of dealerships, the servicing departments are even worse than the sales departments.
Personally, wouldn't contact the head office. I'd keep my money and go somewhere else that treats me better. There are plenty of cars and dealerships out there.
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This is how I spent my afternoon and it differs from the Motorpoint experience above quite a bit. I'd love to mention which Kia chain dealerships but better not due to liability issues.
I'd found some pre-Reg 73 plate Kias with just 9 - 12 miles on the clock --- They were on sale about 20 - 23k depending on spec, 5k less than a new 24 plates,
At that price why not explore some broker proper new prices eg www.uk-car-discount.co.uk, they have some great discounts re Kia Ceed Estate or the xCeed - that I'm looking at! A good friend used them to buy a Renault Captur and was impressed. He didn't pay until the car was delivered.
Avoid pre reg cars where the v5 is withheld!
Edited by Big John on 25/05/2024 at 23:01
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Thanks, that's a really useful link. Can they be trusted? How are they selling new cars so cheap?
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Thanks, that's a really useful link. Can they be trusted?
I can't really understand anyone asking this question and expecting a worthwhile answer. In real life - and especially in the car market - buyers can do little more than ask friends or locals for word-of-mouth advice, then put a toe in the water (as you seem to have done) and trust your instincts.
Some regulars on here trot out the dictum that all dealers are crooks, which may be an overstatement, but you get the idea. There is (or certainly was, I bought from them twice) a well established dealership in Cheshire which claimed associations with its local Trading Standards, so there may be others. In the end you can fret endlessly and get nowhere.
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Thanks, that's a really useful link. Can they be trusted?
I can't really understand anyone asking this question and expecting a worthwhile answer. In real life - and especially in the car market - buyers can do little more than ask friends or locals for word-of-mouth advice, then put a toe in the water (as you seem to have done) and trust your instincts.
Some regulars on here trot out the dictum that all dealers are crooks, which may be an overstatement, but you get the idea. There is (or certainly was, I bought from them twice) a well established dealership in Cheshire which claimed associations with its local Trading Standards, so there may be others. In the end you can fret endlessly and get nowhere.
I think the big difference nowadays is that finances considerably tighter for many ordinary people than was the case in (say) 2019, plus a high level of societal uncertainty and non-financial worries mean people are far more cautious about what they spend their money on.
This is of particular importance to people on lower incomes who would be buying cars under £10 where inflation has hit far harder than at the top end. It also means that they are having to consider older, higher mileage cars, possibly with less maintenance history and in lesser condition, maybe from sources who previously they may not have trusted.
I've seen many ads from main dealers where they've been reselling pxes where they've not bothered to even clean / detail to any degree the inside of those cars, yet they are selling them for what 5 years ago would've been silly prices and with only 3 month 'warranties'.
I wonder how many are secretly crossing their fingers as such sales go through...
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Several posts ago, I said not to bother with dealerships that are part of a group if you want a decent service. I told you what, in my experience, a good dealer looks like. I even suggested three local to you by name.
I don't really understand why you would ask for advice, then completely ignore it and trundle off to exactly the kind of place I suggested you ignore.
These days, Kia is not noticeably cheaper than any other brand. Sometimes you get a bit more kit in them, but they're not the bargain they once were. If your local Kia dealer is r******, don't go there and don't buy a Kia. Or, indeed, just go to the Yorkshire one and buy from them.
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I went to a local "family run" Skoda dealership yesterday. Lovely staff, totally different attitude, didn't feel like I was being lied to and games weren't being played. I'd love to buy from them. Only one problem, they had just one car in my price range and it wasn't what I was after - old skoda problem of a huge lip in the boot making it useless as an estate. These small places are great but they just don't have the same selection of cars. As someone said upthread, the decent places are being put out of business by the big guys.
All other makes I've found have been 5k more for the same car, only place I've found cheaper than Kia was Dacia and their Jogger is not my cup of tea.
So the UK choice is - local family place but no cars or nasty chain with a better selection but who behave badly. I guess from some of the responses here we get the dealers we deserve.
Edited by UncleBlobby on 27/05/2024 at 14:00
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All idea welcome on ways forward,
If you want one for the price that you've seen in Yorkshire go to Yorkshire and buy one.
I've no idea why you wasted an hour in a dealers after they told you that they won't get the car delivered to themselves.
When they sell cars at a 'loss' they are really looking for a PCP sale as they get more money back in that way so cash sales aren't much of interest to them.
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My car was written off in an RTA. I have no transport to get to Yorkshire.
I don't believe they sell cars at a loss anyway. The calculations they showed me were based on a new 2024 price. Not a 2023 price.
I've given in for now. I have 20K in my pocket, desperately need a new car and no one I'm willing to give it to.
Edited by UncleBlobby on 27/05/2024 at 13:47
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My car was written off in an RTA. I have no transport to get to Yorkshire.
I don't believe they sell cars at a loss anyway. The calculations they showed me were based on a new 2024 price. Not a 2023 price.
I've given in for now. I have 20K in my pocket, desperately need a new car and no one I'm willing to give it to.
I'm sure there are ways to get to Yorkshire from Lancashire (we did away with pack horses a while back,) there are trains (when not on strike) and \National express type coaches.
If you have chosen a Kia model, look at Hyundai for the equivalent model, both brands use many common platforms, engines etc, the main difference is that Hyundai warranty is 5 years unlimited mileage and Kia is 7 years 100,000 miles. Prices shouldn't be that much different, in fact I think Hyundai are slightly cheaper.
Edited by galileo on 27/05/2024 at 17:20
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Duplicate post
Edited by galileo on 27/05/2024 at 15:58
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My car was written off in an RTA. I have no transport to get to Yorkshire.
I don't believe they sell cars at a loss anyway. The calculations they showed me were based on a new 2024 price. Not a 2023 price.
I've given in for now. I have 20K in my pocket, desperately need a new car and no one I'm willing to give it to.
Train? Bus? Coach? Taxi? Plenty of ways to get there if you wanted to.
They can sell the car on a loss and claw that money back through the PCP and servicing - which by the sounds of it is why they are not too keen on spending money taking the cars from one dealer to another for you - especially if the dealer in Lancashire prefers not to make money that way. I expect the Yorkshire branch needs to shift some stock so you'll miss out on a good price for one.
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Leaving aside the fact I can barely walk due to my car accident, the Yorkshire dealership isn't near the train station Id have to get several trains/bus/taxi each way as I live in a remote village with no public transport. Why should I have to do that when the company advertises all cars being online can be shipped to any of their UK dealerships then doesn't honour that commitment ?
I've finally written off this Kia dealership as there's only so many chances you can given them. After they insisted that the Kia they had would test drive exactly the same as the ones on sale in Yorkshire so why not just test drive their Kia before ordering one untested. I arranged a test drive test. Despite them knowing I was coming the test car was full of sand and packets of rizlas ( currently being driven by one of their sales team) and the rear suspension was making a loud creaking sound! When I asked what it was the salesman insisted it was just the seats creaking but he couldn't fix it when he tried. I've previously owned a Kia long enough to know what the seats sound like and this was coming from the rear wheels... I'm no mechanic but I'd guess at broken spring/cv joint. On a demo car with just 2K on the clock! I guess the salesman had been using it to transport sand/building mats and hit a pothole/speed bump too fast.
Enough is enough, as someone said upthread, if this is what their sales team are like imagine what they'll be like post sale.
The small, family owned Skoda dealership were completely different. Sadly the older Skoda Estates have a large lip on the boot (like SUVs) which prevents me sliding heavy objects in and out - post accident I can't lift much either and the ability to slide heavy objects in and out plus sit on the open boot is critical. The newest Skoda Octavias have resolved glaring fault this but only on the very newest models which are out of my price range. So it's back to the drawing board. I view each of these cars as near misses and would rather take my time and get it right now than have the problems so many of my friends do when they just get on with it and buy the first car they see.
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The small, family owned Skoda dealership were completely different. Sadly the older Skoda Estates have a large lip on the boot (like SUVs) which prevents me sliding heavy objects in and out - post accident I can't lift much either and the ability to slide heavy objects in and out plus sit on the open boot is critical. The newest Skoda Octavias have resolved glaring fault this but only on the very newest models which are out of my price range. So it's back to the drawing board. I view each of these cars as near misses and would rather take my time and get it right now than have the problems so many of my friends do when they just get on with it and buy the first car they see.
The variable boot floor was a factory option on the older Octavia estates. You might be lucky and find a suitable used car with this option.
If you scroll through the photos, this one has it.
www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202405209913349
Not recommending this particular car, as it's a diesel.
Edited by FiestaOwner on 29/05/2024 at 21:49
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