Bought at a standalone Kia franchise listed as ‘one of the largest in the uk’ a family owned business. I should have added in their last email to him, they asked him to send them the empty service booklet back, so they could get it rectified for him. How could they possibly rectify it?
We’re thinking now should we simply reject the vehicle formally as they really don’t seem to be taking our concerns seriously at all.
Edited by Sara Potter on 19/03/2024 at 08:25
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Rectifying a service booklet means stamping it and adding the mileage.
Our Toyota service book is empty as we always forget it at service time, however the pile on invoices I have is better proof than a stamp in a book, which anyone can fake.
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Do as Falkirk Bairn suggests Sara, stating in the letter your intent to reject the car unless it is proved to your satisfaction that the services were performed, with full details of mileage etc. and that the Kia manufacturers warranty is still in force and fully functioning,
Give the retailer and Kia themselves a set time-frame of, say, 3 weeks to provide this information and confirmation to you.
You may also want to send a copy to the Trading Standards Office covering the area of the dealership., to show that you mean business.
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An 18 month old car with only one key would put me off straight away.
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I should have added in their last email to him, they asked him to send them the empty service booklet back, so they could get it rectified for him.
I suspect that if you had done that, the booklet would have unaccountably got lost in their system ?
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While I’d be annoyed I wouldn’t be overly concerned as long as they fill in the service book as having been serviced by a Kia dealer and update the online records if they exist. This will ensure the warranty will be honoured. Did they service it before delivery? If not I’d want it serviced as I suspect the history up to that point is fake. If the car is otherwise ok then keep it as you may struggle to find a better one.
It’s very common to find used cars that’ve been returned after lease or PCP with fake or no service records. The first keeper will never own the car so they don’t care about it and often won’t shell out for servicing.
I’ve found it very difficult to find a genuine 3-5yr old who send car of late. Loads have service books (if they come with one) with obviously fake stamps which are easily bought on eBay. Both dealers and first keepers are at this. Buyers beware.
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I think you're probably speaking slightly at cross-purposes with the dealer.
They think that you want to be certain that the warranty still applies, so they are offering to stamp the book and ensure that it does.
They may have a digital record of servicing but, more likely if it was leased, they have seen sufficient evidence of servicing (those print offs) to make them confident in maintaining the warranty.
I have had a leased car, and I got it serviced when appropriate, but they never stamped the book or gave me a receipt - they just said it had been done and updated the leasing company records.
If you only care about the warranty (i.e. you have the car on finance so plan to hand it back to Kia), I wouldn't worry about it at all.
If you own the car outright and intend to keep it, there are two extremes to the responses in your situation. One would be to say it was mis-sold and demand your money back. The other would be to just shrug your shoulders and move on.
I think there is probably an in-between where, unless they have done so already, you ask the dealer to service the vehicle free of charge to give you more peace of mind. Alternatively, if they're local, it might be worth angling for a discount on a service plan.
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Kia do not keep online records of servicing so all we currently have is a blank service booklet and 2 pieces of paper indicating some sort of service by a non-garage and the amount stamped as paid. The dealer apparently did some sort of inspection but again no proof of that. No service done or offered by them. We think the point is, will the car be under warranty? The dealer appears willing to make the empty service book look like they have serviced the car by stamping it but that will not go with the paperwork.
It may be that many lease cars are not serviced properly or have fake or non-existent service records. But in good faith we bought a car from a main dealer with FSH and warranty We do not feel they were honest with us
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Kia do not keep online records of servicing so all we currently have is a blank service booklet and 2 pieces of paper indicating some sort of service by a non-garage and the amount stamped as paid. The dealer apparently did some sort of inspection but again no proof of that. No service done or offered by them. We think the point is, will the car be under warranty? The dealer appears willing to make the empty service book look like they have serviced the car by stamping it but that will not go with the paperwork. It may be that many lease cars are not serviced properly or have fake or non-existent service records. But in good faith we bought a car from a main dealer with FSH and warranty We do not feel they were honest with us
In that case, take it back and ask for a refund.
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We have asked for a refund but they will have none of it. Their response was it’s under warranty and has FSH, then offering to ‘rectify’ the service booklet if we sent it back. Been in touch with citizens advice so think we will ask for more proof of service and/or written proof from KIA HO that they will honour warranty.
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<< In that case, take it back and ask for a refund. >>
I can understand why the seller 'will have none of it' - I can't see any grounds for rejection if the car works satisfactorily but is a bit short on paperwork - which surely could be supplied if necessary. Looking long-term, if you expect to keep the car, that may have drawbacks ; if not, it doesn't matter much.
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<< In that case, take it back and ask for a refund. >>
I can understand why the seller 'will have none of it' - I can't see any grounds for rejection if the car works satisfactorily but is a bit short on paperwork - which surely could be supplied if necessary. Looking long-term, if you expect to keep the car, that may have drawbacks ; if not, it doesn't matter much.
It wouldn't bother me that much personally, but if a car is advertised as having a full service history and, in fact, has no service history it's not case of rejecting it for being faulty, but of intentional mis-selling. It's not a few bits of paperwork, it's the entire service history.
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<< It wouldn't bother me that much personally, but if a car is advertised as having a full service history and, in fact, has no service history it's not case of rejecting it for being faulty, but of intentional mis-selling. It's not a few bits of paperwork, it's the entire service history. >>
I thought we didn't really know whether the car has a service history or not ? If it has, provide paperwork (possibly invented), if it can be shown to have no history, then perhaps reject for mis-selling.
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I’m not sure I understand. We chose a Kia specifically for the long warranty which will only be valid with supporting service booklet and/or a fully documented service history. I think not having the warranty is a major drawback.
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From where I'm standing this car has been mis represented, little evidence of a full Kia service history would throw up a red flag for me as ( as the Doc said earlier) would the one key.
Be interested to know how they explain the dodgy looking receipts from garages that appear not to exist.
Get hubby to take it back and give them the key, was it payed for with a credit card?
Totally agree with FB's initial reply, Totally disagree with SLO's comment about not being unduly worried, being a ex lease car I wouldn't mind betting its never been serviced at all...
Edited by paul 1963 on 19/03/2024 at 19:53
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They did eventually find the key took a while though so we do have 2 keys. Unfortunately it was paid for by bank transfer. We are seriously considering the misrepresentation route. Sent email yesterday asking about ‘garage’ including VAT registration number. And how they aim to rectify service booklet, no response yet.
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I’m not sure I understand. We chose a Kia specifically for the long warranty which will only be valid with supporting service booklet and/or a fully documented service history. I think not having the warranty is a major drawback.
Spot on. Posters on here have little grasp of reality when it does not affect them.
No history and use of a non VAT garage mean 100% no warranty.
Since its supposedly a Kia dealer contact Kia Customer Services, hopefully they should help.
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"A few days later I bought the car and 2 weeks later found out that the Service Plan was cancelled shortly after I took delivery."
I seem to recall you purchased the car from a well known national car supermarket chain. Genuine error or sharp practice FB?
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Sharp practice by the Manufacturer Finance arm.
The Finance arm would not talk to me about the 5 Year Service they cancelled just after I bought the car from a "National Supermarket"
My complaint was the car was sold by first owner on 15th July. 26 days later I enquired with the Manufacturer Warranty/Service admin and they confirmed the car had a 5 year Cover
I put down a deposit 2 days later and picked it up a week later - I needed the time to get my number plate off the old car and have a new V5c with the original Reg for the trade-in to work.
The "National Supermarket" were very good, best price for my 11 year old CRV and £2.5K under the average price for my "new car " (1900 miles) - the salesman was new, very young but polite / thorough with everything in order when I picked up the car. I am sure this was his biggest sale
What he did not like was the fact that I avoided all the add-ons and paid for the car outright.
11.9% APR finance, Gap Insurance, Paint Protection etc etc were read out and declined by me
Happy with the car after getting the car set-up sorted (Most driver assistance electronics switched off)
Serviced last month under the service agreement FOC. The main dealer was very good.
Contrast was a son buying a brand new BMW in November - factory order, poor at returning calls, car was not ready for the agreed pick-up, the paperwork was a shambles etc etc
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The longer warranty, particularly on Kia, is a significant influence on the purchase decision.
If there is any doubt as to the warranty status I would want to be assured by an authoritative source that all was in order - preferably by Kia directly.
If services are undocumented and outside the Kia network there is no assurance they were done properly (right lubricants, software updates etc) or even done at all. It increases the risk that the vehicle may have been abused with a greater chance of subsequent failure.
Don't pull any punches - sent communication by recorded delivery. Personally I would be prepared to reject if proper assurances were not quickly forthcoming.
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Kia are very specific about the timing of the servicing and this was disrupted by the pandemic when some of their workshops were closed.
I know of one case where a costly. warranty job was refused because the service wasn’t completed exactly on time effectively making the seven year warranty null and void .
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If the dealer updates the service book, would it be possible to get something in writing either from the dealer or Kia themselves stating that it has a full 7 year warranty…?
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Citizens Advice have advised us this could be a way forward. We are trying our best to stay amicable with dealer and feel it’s up to them to sort it with relevant proof and assurances about FSH and warranty. It doesn’t feel right though if they just sign and stamp service booklet tbh as it doesn’t prove services have been done properly or at all. Have yet to get a response from our email yesterday we’re half expecting them to just ignore us so may have to go down formal rejection route.
The more we check into service paperwork the more it reveals. The ‘garage’ a limited company was not at the time incorporated but has Ltd on the invoice. Apparently according to HMRC Website this is not allowed. To us this is yet another red flag. We emailed the lease company on the V5 they helpfully confirmed they leased the car to another hire company so they are not involved in servicing vehicle so cannot help. We do know the paperwork given to us by the dealer upon purchase of the car came from them as they’ve given it to us as well! We haven’t tried the next company yet but they could be our next step. We feel this is something the dealer should be doing if they really wanted to help us.
Edited by Sara Potter on 20/03/2024 at 08:21
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It doesn’t feel right though if they just sign and stamp service booklet tbh as it doesn’t prove services have been done properly or at all.
It seems that your fundamental worry is about whether your car has had its oil changed (etc). - which is reasonable for a new owner. However the only certain proof of this would be a lab analysis of what is in the sump, not what is in the service booklet or invoice wallet. Those bits of paper are of value to you mainly if/when you need to call on the maker's warranty.
You may find it impossible to get all the 'facts' behind this, but as long as you concentrate on the question while trusting no-one, you may never settle it. Is it about the oil. or the basis of any possible warranty claim ? At the end of the day, none of us may be absolutely certain about what has been done to our cars by our servicers, despite what is on their invoice ....
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It doesn’t feel right though if they just sign and stamp service booklet tbh as it doesn’t prove services have been done properly or at all.
If you read Kia's Warranty Terms and Exclusions its clear what proof you need of the maintenance carried out.
"You may need to show that you've maintained your Kia car properly. So you should keep your maintenance records handy, together with all your receipts. The scheduled maintenance records should be filled in whenever a Kia car goes in for service or maintenance".
Receipts are required because unlike just about all other makes Kia still do not have a central computerised Service system, its dealer based, totally bizarre when they have the 7 year warranty. They don't just accept the service book as proof since stamps are available from a well known auction site. Likewise receipts are easy to forge but a quick call to the business would soon prove it they are genuine.
When we had a Kia I asked our dealer what would happen if we had an issue hundreds of miles from home and had no records with us, simple answer was ask them to contact us.
Here is a link to the warranty document, the above is under Customer Responsibilities.
www.kia.com/uk/owners/insurance-and-warranty/7-yea.../
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That’s a really helpful post thanks. As the car has neither a stamped booklet or legitimate receipts so there’s clearly a problem. Like you say receipts are easily forged and maybe that’s what’s we have here. The ‘garage’ on the invoices does not appear legit and we cannot contact them, same with the company that leased the car from the company on the V5. All whilst the dealer is maintaining the car has FSH and KIA 7 year warranty intact. I really can see no alternative but rejection and a letter to KIA complaints department in addition.
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That’s a really helpful post thanks. As the car has neither a stamped booklet or legitimate receipts so there’s clearly a problem. Like you say receipts are easily forged and maybe that’s what’s we have here. The ‘garage’ on the invoices does not appear legit and we cannot contact them, same with the company that leased the car from the company on the V5. All whilst the dealer is maintaining the car has FSH and KIA 7 year warranty intact. I really can see no alternative but rejection and a letter to KIA complaints department in addition.
Do it now, don't hesitate a moment longer and keep all your correspondence.
The car was clearly mis sold.
Plenty of genuine ones out there.
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Enlightened by the knowledge, that you have unearthed regarding the previous user of the car, I wholeheartedly endorse Skidpan's last post.
In many years of leasing cars to Hire Companies, I never allowed leases to outlast the requirement for first service, as I knew it would simply not be performed.
Take Skidpan's advice and Reject the car now.
Leaseman (Moderator)
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A week later and the sales manager has refused to return our calls to discuss the matter. Just sent us a couple of emails saying he’s getting the information to back his claims that the car has full service history. In the meantime we spoke to KIA customer services and sent copies them of the service booklet and invoices showing service details. They have kindly confirmed by email that the paperwork does not meet their requirements for the warranty to be valid. So KIA Head office say no warranty and dealership have failed to find any additional proof the service history is genuine.
So it’s a rejection email and letter tomorrow. Surely, they won’t ignore that, and if KIA head office says the service history documents aren’t good enough and not under warranty, then the dealers will take car back and we’ll get our money back? Cannot understand how a big franchised dealership can treat customers so badly.
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A week later and the sales manager has refused to return our calls to discuss the matter. Just sent us a couple of emails saying he’s getting the information to back his claims that the car has full service history. In the meantime we spoke to KIA customer services and sent copies them of the service booklet and invoices showing service details. They have kindly confirmed by email that the paperwork does not meet their requirements for the warranty to be valid. So KIA Head office say no warranty and dealership have failed to find any additional proof the service history is genuine. So it’s a rejection email and letter tomorrow. Surely, they won’t ignore that, and if KIA head office says the service history documents aren’t good enough and not under warranty, then the dealers will take car back and we’ll get our money back? Cannot understand how a big franchised dealership can treat customers so badly.
I would hand deliver the letter, the keys and the car tomorrow. Then an email to Kia, the dealer.principal and trading standards.
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So it’s a rejection email and letter tomorrow. Surely, they won’t ignore that, and if KIA head office says the service history documents aren’t good enough and not under warranty, then the dealers will take car back and we’ll get our money back?
I hope you don't find yourself with neither the car nor the money you paid for it ? When everyone adopts an entrenched position it could end up with only the lawyers on the winning side .... :-(
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Indeed - if the dealer does not react, it could get expensive. Hopefully they will agree a refund. Perhaps a way forward would be for the dealer to step into the shoes of Kia and undertake to refund any repair costs which would normally have been covered by the warranty. That would need a lawyer to draft a watertight agreement though.
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We wouldn’t want to go down that route, the dealer is 40 miles away and don’t think it would be a great relationship in the circumstances. Also I don’t fancy giving them the car back before agreeing a refund that’s risky. I hope they will see sense once formal email and letter arrives. It can’t help anyone to go the legal route.
Edited by Sara Potter on 28/03/2024 at 10:48
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I don’t fancy giving them the car back before agreeing a refund that’s risky. I hope they will see sense once formal email and letter arrives. It can’t help anyone to go the legal route.
I think you should swallow your suspicions and ask the seller to provide full written confirmation that the car's warranty is in force, and proceed on that basis. You may still wonder about the oil in the sump, but if the seller has changed that, there should be no problem.
When I bought the 207 that is outside the front door from an established Pug dealer 15 years ago, it was ex-rental with 13,500 miles on the clock. In place of the first service stamp was a sticker which reads
'The previous operator of this car was contractually obliged to maintain the vehicle observing Peugeot service requirements and so the validity of the warranty is not affected by the absence of a dealer's stamp in respect of the first service'.
As far as that goes, I suppose I was in the same position as you are now. Strictly speaking, the oil change had been due 1000 miles earlier, but the car came with a full service and I took it at face value. I have never needed to invoke the warranty and never regretted it. The paperwork may have been falsified, but who can tell ?
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We have asked the dealership to provide confirmation of warranty and they have not. KIA HO Customer services have looked at the paperwork and confirmed the warranty has been invalidated. We may never need the warranty but as the car is less than 18 months old and they sold it on basis of FSH and warranty it’s not as described.
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We wouldn’t want to go down that route, the dealer is 40 miles away and don’t think it would be a great relationship in the circumstances. Also I don’t fancy giving them the car back before agreeing a refund that’s risky. I hope they will see sense once formal email and letter arrives. It can’t help anyone to go the legal route.
Sara, make sure you brush up on the intricacies of rejecting a car under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
I seem to remember that to officially reject the car, you have to deliver it back to the supplying dealer. That way you are demonstrating that you no longer enjoy the use of it.
Now that Kia have said that it does not meet their standards for the 7 year warranty to be maintained, I can't see how the dealer can maintain their rather stupid and stubborn position.
Good luck, make sure you follow the rejection process correctly and let us know how it goes.
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We wouldn’t want to go down that route, the dealer is 40 miles away and don’t think it would be a great relationship in the circumstances. Also I don’t fancy giving them the car back before agreeing a refund that’s risky. I hope they will see sense once formal email and letter arrives. It can’t help anyone to go the legal route.
Sara, make sure you brush up on the intricacies of rejecting a car under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.
I seem to remember that to officially reject the car, you have to deliver it back to the supplying dealer. That way you are demonstrating that you no longer enjoy the use of it.
Now that Kia have said that it does not meet their standards for the 7 year warranty to be maintained, I can't see how the dealer can maintain their rather stupid and stubborn position.
Good luck, make sure you follow the rejection process correctly and let us know how it goes.
You don't need to deliver it back. In fact, it's the dealer's responsibility to come and collect it wherever you are.
I don't think we're really talking about rejecting a car so much as returning a mis-sold product. Rejecting it would suggest it has a mechanical issue. In this case it's just a dealer being economical with the truth.
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Finally think the dealer has realised that they need to accept they’re in the wrong. A well worded email explaining the details and CRA 2015 paragraph, together with a similar letter to their complaints team and MD (which should have arrived or will do within next couple of days) seems to have made them realise we won’t be fobbed off any more. The turning point seems to be a copy of the KIA HO email saying no warranty, being called dishonest, and formal letter.
While the sales manager is still claiming he is trying to get proof of FSH, parts used, VAT number of garage, etc, we seem to have an admission albeit seemingly grudgingly, that it’s not going to be possible.
He has finally said we can let him know time and date we will be returning vehicle, oh, and if we would like to have a chat personally! Bit late to try and resolve it after playing us for fools for over 2 weeks. We want the money first, obviously they are very slippery, happy to return car BUT want the money safely in our bank account first. How we achieve that, no doubt that’s not going to be easy but I’m hoping we’re in the home stretch.
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That sounds promising. I bet in the chat they will say they will have to charge for the mileage covered. Legally, they only have a right to do this in respect of a rejection after the 30 day period. Depending on the amount you may just wish to cut your losses and accept, of course.
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Great news and as Brit in Germany says, be prepared for them to deduct a fair mileage allowance from the refund, although this may also be your negotiating point with them following the Kia HO statement.
Edited by 72 dudes on 31/03/2024 at 17:56
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Interesting I can’t see them trying that in the circumstances. We’d be unhappy if they try to charge mileage, we’ve only drove it home and then took it out for a quick spin about 6 miles once to make sure it hadn’t stood unused for too long . We had a tyre fault light on the way home as well as everything else so it’s just sat in the garage while we tried to sort the other stuff out.
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Just to give the ending to this saga for anyone who’s kindly contributed to this thread. My husband eventually got through to a director who after a rather terse conversation agreed to refund and to collect car. It was collected the next day - 3 weeks to the day we bought it.
And guess what? The car was back up on their website and the KIA used website as having FSH and warranty the same afternoon. How can they do this??
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Very kind of you, Sara, to let us know of your success. Your tenacity, hopefully assisted by the members of the Forum, is a lesson to all consumers to stick to their position for as long as it takes.
As for the dealer's lack of ethical standards, many of the Forum have worked in the Motor Trade in various positions and are aware of the antics of rogues, and that's why they give up their own time to contribute here.
Good luck with your search for a suitable replacement car, and for a happy motoring future.
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Just to give the ending to this saga for anyone who’s kindly contributed to this thread. My husband eventually got through to a director who after a rather terse conversation agreed to refund and to collect car. It was collected the next day - 3 weeks to the day we bought it. And guess what? The car was back up on their website and the KIA used website as having FSH and warranty the same afternoon. How can they do this??
Low moral standards?
You could get in touch with whatever body regulates such things (trading standards?), otherwise there isn't really much can be done. You could also leave a review (Google, Facebook, Autotrader, etc) of your experience urging others to check carefully any claims of FSH.
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The car was back up on their website and the KIA used website as having FSH and warranty the same afternoon. How can they do this??
You already know the answer to that - just the same way as last time. Enough people buy cars without checking whatever they are told, or at least not doing that before the refund period expires. It's one way the car market earns the reputation it has.
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So true, Review now up on Google.
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And just a final postscript. 1 star review posted - all true and accurate just giving people fair warning to stop it happening again. The dealer responds ‘we have searched your name through our records and cannot find you. Please remove this review as there is no foundation to your claim.’ My husband’s email is different to his actual name but really?? Totally shameless and dishonest behaviour. I’m guessing review will be removed next.
We’ve now purchased again from another main dealer, different manufacturer. Car with FSH in book and online, 1 owner and remainder of warranty. Sat there grilling him - lesson learnt!
Edited by Sara Potter on 09/04/2024 at 17:58
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I'm sure I read a post of someone having some kind of a warranty work issue with KIA in the past.
I understand they offer 7 year warranty but as I read the posted link, the warranty doesn't cover much by the 7th year.....
To me, the following sentence under What's not covered / Normal deterioration sums up pretty much and they would take it as gospel...
"Gradual wearing of mechanical components in proportion to mileage"
Edited by Catfood on 21/03/2024 at 08:37
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I'm sure I read a post of someone having some kind of a warranty work issue with KIA in the past.
I understand they offer 7 year warranty but as I read the posted link, the warranty doesn't cover much by the 7th year.....
More nonsense yet again.
Read the document I posted above (here it is to save you looking back)
www.kia.com/uk/owners/insurance-and-warranty/7-yea.../
There are some items excluded as the car gets older but its a short list. The ones you have highlighted are simply to protect themselves and are unlikely to be an issue when the mileage is under 100,000.
We had one 5 years and had very few issues but in year 4 the A/C condenser was holed by a stone and much to our surprise it was replaced under warranty.
But ours was looked after by the local Kia dealer.
We would probably have one now if they made a suitable car.
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Okay, I read it again but I'm still not convinced.....
Audio and navigation units are covered for only 36 months or 60,000 miles
The Paint is covered for 60 months or 100,000 miles
You had the issue in Year 4 but do you think the same happen in Year 6, for example, the 83rd month ?
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You had the issue in Year 4 but do you think the same happen in Year 6, for example, the 83rd month ?
I took the car in with absolutely zero expectation of it being a warranty fix since it was not a manufacturing fault, it was a stone, the hole was easy to spot. But they simply said it was warranty and did the job (even though it took a couple of weeks to get the part).
Why should it be any different 2 years and 4 months later?
But we will never know.
Problem with Kia is the dealers, some like ours are long established and pro customer and get the work done and car back on the road. Others that are recent additions will argue that all faults are not under warranty and hope the customer simply pays (which will be more than any warranty claim).
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I have the feeling that you were very fortunate to have a good dealer around you. I also think it was because you have been servicing your car at the same garage for years.
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I have the feeling that you were very fortunate to have a good dealer around you. I also think it was because you have been servicing your car at the same garage for years.
Maybe you can't believe all you see on the internet regarding the warranty.
I had a Hyundai that was serviced outside the dealer notwork but when the power steering failed into the warranty period it was replaced without a complaint.
I can't see Kia not honoring their warranty in most cases otherwise this site would be awash of horror stories.
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