MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof | Motoring discussion | Back Room Forum

What is life like with your car? Let us know and win £500 in John Lewis vouchers | No thanks

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:19

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

Hi guys

Brand new here and at my wits end. New to all this so please be kind. Bought a 91 Mk1 Golf back in April last year. Car of my dreams. Within 2 weeks of owning, car had to go to a garage to have £700 worth of repairs but the trader covered this cost. Since September, roof on the convertible has been leaking like a sieve. Went back to the trader who said nothing to do with them any more. Took the car off road, kept it covered in the garden. Interior was sodden, condensation and mould everywhere. So gutted by it. Eventually saved up enough money to get a replacement roof (£1900). Took the car to the guy to fit the roof, and he said the roof that was on the car is not the original roof, it has been replaced by a roof that doesn't fit. He put the roof down and showed me that the roof was hanging on to the frame by duct tape and cable ties. The inner pad was covered in mould and was sodden. He showed me the back window was held in place by staples and masking tape. The roof was never going to be watertight ever, due to the inferior materials used and the fact the roof had no proper fixings.

I bought the car from a classic car dealer, not from some bloke down a dark alleyway, so I thought the proper checks would have been carried out. I have gone back to him and explained that the man who fitted the new roof had to carry out an additional £400 worth of repairs (including getting a fabricator in to weld a new frame for the roof as the one I had was riddled with rust due to all the water just sitting on the inner pad). He said the only reason I needed a new roof was due to the existing roof not being the right roof and not fitted correctly at all. The car dealer is saying he is having nothing to do with it. He didn't fit the roof, I know that, but surely as a classic car dealer, there are checks he should do before selling a car on? The roof fitter showed me all the issues and said these would have been obvious to a dealer who knew what they were doing.

I have been on to Citizens Advice, and they said I could start a Small Claims action against the dealer. He has now referred me to his legal team, who has come back and said he is not liable at all.

Anyone give me any advice? I know I bought the car 11 months ago, and I know it is a classic car so there are going to be issues, but I really don't expect my roof to be held on by staples and cable ties. I have only driven 1300 miles in it in 11 months as for a month the mechanics were being fixed, and then it has been covered in the garden since November due to the heavy rains. I expected to have been all over the place by now in this car, but sadly not.

Any help would be grateful. Am I being unreasonable? Do I even have a leg to stand on? CAB said I have up to 6 years to make a claim if the car is not fit for purpose. Does a mouldy leaking roof constitute not being fit for purpose?

Thanks so much in advance. Complete novice here, and finding this very stressful.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:36

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - elekie&a/c doctor

I think you need to be realistic here . You’ve bought a 30 year old classic car . You can’t expect it to be perfect . Perhaps you should have engaged the services of a VW specialist before purchasing it . A 30 year old car “not fit for purpose “? Think you’ll struggle with that .

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:47

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

I totally get what you are saying. I really appreciate your answer. With hindsight, I should have taken someone with me. However, buying from a very reputable dealer, I thought they would have done pre-sales checks on the car. To have the back window held in with staples is surely very dangerous? Masking tape and cable ties were the only things holding the fabric to the roof frame. Would this not be covered in a pre-sale check.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:38

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - leaseman

I think that your CAB advisor may be wrong in this case, as 6 months, and not 6 years is the limit for rejecting the goods under the Consumer Rights Act (CRA). I know of no legislation providing for "Unfit for Purpose" on used cars outside of that Act.

Does your Motor or Home Insurance Policy provide for Legal Disputes? May be clutching at straws, but could be worth an initial discussion if so.

Another route would be to contact the Trading Standards department of the Local Authority covering the area where the Trader operates. They may take an interest if they have had prior history with the Trader.

Sorry to hear about your experience and wish you the very best in your endeavours for redress.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:42

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Adampr

Realistically, you've got no hope. It's one to put down to experience, I'm afraid.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 18:58

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - bazza

I really don't think it is worth the stress and hassle of trying to fight this legally. As adampr says, best to put down to experience. Sometimes it is easy to get carried away with the idea of an older "classic" but they really are a minefield. I love the MK1 golf myself but buying any 30 year old car you're going to need either motor mechanic skills or deep pockets. If you're at your wits end, then the simple answer is to sell it and recoup your money, don't let a mechanical item get you down! Then just buy something modern and reliable to get about in. Perhaps not what you want to hear but I wish you the best!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 14:51

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

Thanks so much for your reply. This is what I found on the internet from CAB.

"You have legal rights for up to 6 years (5 years if you bought the car in Scotland), but only if you can show that you didn’t cause the fault. The longer you’ve had the car, the harder it will be to prove that the problem was there when the trader sold it to you.

Plus, you’ll only have legal rights if the car is not:

‘of satisfactory quality’ - it should do what you’d expect for its age, mileage, price and type
‘fit for purpose’ - for example if you asked for a car that would pull a caravan, it has to be able to do that
‘as described’ - it must match the advert or the description the trader gave you

So, I am not sure if that can be applied to this case or not? I have been on to Trading Standards and they have registered the complaint against his business.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 15:05

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Terry W

The condition of any 30 year old car is likely to be very variable from clunky rot box through to meticulously maintained classic - and the price paid should reflect that.

A thorough inspection is needed by someone who knows what they are looking for. In this case some of the faults should have been evident upon a simple visual inspection. There may also be others less obvious!

Unless the dealer grossly misdescribed the car I suspect that you will be wasting your time trying to make a claim.

I appreciate this is a somewhat negative view and the cost is obviously a problem. I wish you better luck next time!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 15:07

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

I appreciate your reply. It seems like the general consensus is for me to take it on the chin. Oh well. Lessons learned, eh?

I am just fearful that if the guy is in business claiming to sell "classic cars", what else is he ommitting on a pre-sales check? Yikes.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 15:05

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - elekie&a/c doctor

Think yourself lucky that the trader covered the original £700 repair cost . He could easily have told you to go away on an old car like this.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 15:09

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

Luckily the car came with a 3 month warranty, and he was honourable and covered all the costs. The garage I took the car to to have the repairs done said it should not have been sold with so many issues and the MOT that the garage had put it through and passed the previous day probably wasn't worth the paper it was written on. Due a new MOT next month. I am dreading what it will bring up. :(

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate your honesty.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 16:08

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Steveieb

To get some idea of the sellers liability or not , are you able to let us know how much you paid for the car?

I had one of these and one thing to check is the fuel filler pipe which rots out allowing fuel to leak . A common fault and one that is a serous fire risk .

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 18:48

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

The car was advertised as £8,995 and I paid £8,000 for it. The email sent to me by the trader in the initial conversation said “the car is in lovely condition and wants and needs for nothing”.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 16:16

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - badbusdriver

You can check the MOT history of any car here, check-mot-history

Put in your registration number and have a look. Feel free to post on the forum anything mentioned in previous fails and or advisories you are unsure of or worried about.

Personally, I think the dealer who sold it to you is a crook. The fact that the car is 30 years old is, in this case, irrelevant. As a classic car dealer, it is up to him to check thoroughly any car he buys to resell or takes as a trade in. In the case of a convertible, unless he is hopelessly inept, this would include checking the hood for both fit and operation. By the sounds of what the other garage said, it would have been immediately obvious to a professional classic car dealer that the roof was wrong. Unfortunately, because so much time has passed, I don't think there is anything you can do other than writing a detailed review on your experience anywhere you can (Google, Facebook, Autotrader, his own website?) Be clear and concise, no slagging him off, just facts. At the very least it will make you feel a little better putting it out there.

But I hope you get the car sorted proper with no more expensive issues. They are fundamentally sound and reliable cars which, by the time yours rolled off the production line, had been around for 12 years, more than enough time to iron out any design issues. I also hope this doesn't sour your relationship with the car too much either, as it has the potential to provide many years enjoyment!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 16:26

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - pd

A 33 year old car is always going to be a work in progress. Basically it is a specialist vehicle and will need constant work and effort to keep on the road.

I don't agree it is irrelevant that the car is 30+ years old - it is pretty much a given by any purchaser that such a car is a high risk purchase which requires enthusiast style ownership and any such car will have a lot of, umm, history and endless replaced and odd ball parts. Goodness knows how many hands it has passed through.

The dealer maybe should have spotted the roof but equally any purchaser knows they are not buying a regular car.

On the upside Mk 1 Golfs are only going up in price so even with a roof expense the OP will probably get their money back in the end.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 17:49

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Andrew-T

What a sad tale. I suspect you may have been too overcome with your apparent good fortune to have looked the car over carefully. The shortcomings you describe should have been visible inside and outside the car - you haven't reported any problems underneath or in other out-of-sight places. So on that basis I think you must swallow your disappointment. I think the 6-year rule you mention is really about brand-new cars, not 30-y-o ones.

I decided to pay for a new roof on a 1991 205 soft-top about 10 years ago. It was done for about £700 (IIRC) at a canalside place that specialised in car roofs, and they did an excellent job also replacing a non-original roof. Unless soft-tops spend their lives in the dry their roofs can't usually be expected to last 30 years.

As with buying ANY used car, always look it over carefully and ask lots of awkward questions. One regular on here always reminds us of the 3 basic rules :

Traders are liars ; Traders are liars ; as rules 1 & 2 above. :-(

Edited by Andrew-T on 06/03/2024 at 18:03

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 6 Mar 2024 18:54

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Adampr

The six year rule applies to any civil contract other than a Deed, which is twelve years.

It's the statutory limit of liability.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 7 Mar 2024 14:57

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - skidpan

Traders are liars ; Traders are liars ; as rules 1 & 2 above. :-(

Interesting you should say that.

Wife ordered new car 29 Sept 2023 for delivery March. They told us the price would be fixed but nothing on the order so e-mailed them and they confirmed by e-mail price fixed and should a better PCP be available when delivered we could opt for that.

So 2 weeks ago got a call saying car on site, need to arrange collection. Fine I said but what about the better PCP to which he said it did not apply because of the wait for the car. It went to the sales team leader who said the same and then to the sales manager who said we were correct and should have the new PCP.

Handed deal back to original salesman to recalculate and his new figure was about £1000 more than the original.

So back to sales manager who clearly never took maths at school but after 4 days we got to the correct figures.

Just waiting for a collection date now.

Proves what I have always said.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 7 Mar 2024 15:56

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Steveieb

Similarly from the other aspect , one local estate agent told me after a lifetime in the business that his view was that “ Buyers are liars !”

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 7 Mar 2024 16:25

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - skidpan

Similarly from the other aspect , one local estate agent told me after a lifetime in the business that his view was that “ Buyers are liars !”

But he was probably lying about that!!!

Not much experience with estate agents, bought 2 and sold one in 43 years. First agent was very helpful getting us a mortgage (in 1981 they were very scarce and very expensive) and the 2nd (bought and sold through him) got us a sale (at the asking price) within 48 hours of the sign going up. He also helped the buyer get a better mortgage.

In the late 80's I actually used the 2nd agent when he worked at a different place (just across the road) and he got me a cracking deal on a piece of land I had got for peanuts and then obtained planning for 3. M & D then used him to sell grandma's house, took 2 days.

But both were and still are single branch independents so they probably give better service than those with rows of desks with dolls heads sitting at them. The first agent we used is well into his 80's now and still driving the same Rover P6 he had in 1981. Only difference seems to be he gets a 3rd party to put up his signs, years ago he had a small trailer behind the P6 and a big hammer.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Thu 7 Mar 2024 17:48

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - bathtub tom

I've recently bought and sold. The agent we bought through undervalued our old house at £40K less than we got, then had the nerve to confront us as to why we didn't use them to sell.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 13 Mar 2024 16:54

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Sarah-Jane Smith-Williams

Just a quick update. After many discussions and a few legal letters, the garage that I bought the car off has agreed to pay half of the new roof for me. What a result! I am pleased with that and have accepted their offer.

Thanks for all the advice, everything. I have appreciated it all. ????

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 13 Mar 2024 17:10

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - leaseman

Well done Sarah-Jane and thank you for letting us know your settlement. Good result I think we will all agree.

Happy motoring in your (hopefully) appreciating and attractive wheels!

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Wed 13 Mar 2024 18:05

MK1 Golf - Used car bought - faulty roof - Andrew-T

Just a quick update. After many discussions and a few legal letters, the garage that I bought the car off has agreed to pay half of the new roof for me. What a result! I am pleased with that and have accepted their offer.

I think you have done fairly well there. When you get the car back, I am sure you will look it over more thoroughly than the first time ? One worry for me would be that a car which has had a leaky roof for years may have rust lurking where the sun don't shine. I remember looking at a 205 soft-top many years ago which was dreadful in places - but I suppose some owners don't look under rear seats and such, and annual MoT tests may not either.

Reply | Report as offensive | Link

Ask Honest John

Sell Your Car

Real MPG

Fuel Calculator