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Rust is the killer: sills and rear wheel arches, suspension mounting points being worst places.
To keep over 10 years, some rust treatment - either cure or better prevention is needed.
Our 20 years old Toyota Yaris is still solid due to regular treatment. Ditto our 11 year old Jazz.
I Dinitrolled a friend's VW Tiguan about 6 years ago: it is now 18 years old and going strong.
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Another vote for the Civic. I only sold my 2012 one due its suffering from the aforementioned oil issue. It was otherwise a very good car and felt it should last well.
We also had a 2012 Mazda 3 which we recently traded in. It didn’t feel nearly as solid as the Civic and was much less powerful.
The Mazda cost us with two rusty suspension issues. It also had seam rust in the engine compartment. Light now and easy to cover with Hammerite every year (it was handy the car was black) but would no doubt need work if kept long term.
I know the OP is looking at slightly newer cars. They may have better protection but need to looked at carefully. There are few people who treat their cars as well as madf Finding one will not be easy.
Edited by catsdad on 13/12/2023 at 14:04
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Yes, if you want it to last you need one in decent condition to start with and then keep the salt at bay during the winter from the underbody and apply so rust protection.
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Thanks, I'll surely look out for this. I've not really paid attention to the underbody at all.
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Makes sense. I'll keep an eye to avoid any potential pitfalls with known faults. Diesel is surely a no-go for me, and 1.8 is probably too much - my current 1.25 seems more than enough (gets my in-laws around).
Economy would be key factor. 50mpg is ideal :)
I did had Mazda 3 previously (1.6 TDi), albeit diesel started cutting out with no fix in sight - I had to give up on it. A real shame, but I think I'll pass on Mazda this time (just to experience different make). Same for Ford, I realise Focus is significantly better than Style+ Fiesta, but I can't se myself driving Ford. Nothing against this brand, it's been brilliant so far.
Auris MK2, or Honda Civic 1.2 - 1.4 seem to be ideal options. If you'd drop a few suggestions - I'd be grateful. I mainly look out for low-mileage cars, with good history. But if there is anything I should pay attention in buying a car - I'd surely take notice.
I also really like Skoda Scala 1.0 TSi, albeit it's bit more on the expensive side. Albeit seems great car overall, so if perhaps this model is significantly better than either Auris, or Civic - I'd put away buying a car for a year till I save up coins for Scala then.
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The 1,8 Civic is actually quite economical. I easily got 50mpg on a run and mid 40’s day to day but with limited urban driving. Only doing 7k miles a year your annual fuel cost will not be that different across the cars you are considering. There is also no turbo to go wrong over the longer term.
However make sure you like driving a non turbo car. I liked the need to rev the Civic but you may prefer a turbo, and take the small risk of a turbo issue in the ten years you want it to last.
The Scala seems a good car and if it’s out of budget you could look for an older Fabia (estate perhaps?) .
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However make sure you like driving a non turbo car. I liked the need to rev the Civic but you may prefer a turbo, and take the small risk of a turbo issue in the ten years you want it to last.
Also, on some direct injection turbo engines, the issue of valve sticking when they are older. It can be cured, but it's an extra maintenance cost.
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Re the 1.8 Civic, my daughter has one as her run around and dog carrier (she has two other increasingly high performance Civics too), i used it during the summer for my work commutes for about 6 weeks, which are not fuel friendly involving crossing two towns with no easy running in between, it averaged 35mpg, she gets similar general dodging about, 40 should be easily attained on better routes.
You can't knock VTEC Hondas for reliability and durability, my daughter has had several 2.0 litre older Civics over the years which she thrashed mercilessly over really high mileages during her work travels, not even a hiccup from any of them,she's never had a single breakdown in probably 500k miles in her Hondas, all except one were bought as well used examples.
They need fresh engine oil every year, they like all Japanese cars need the brakes to be serviced properly regularly (a hobby horse of mine because no almost no one services brakes properly any more), a set of plugs once in a while, a gearbox oil change at say 40k miles, at 80k or so the suspension top mounts might give trouble...remember Northants has third world standard urban roads, might not be the case where you live...other than that they seldom go wrong, but i'd give the automatic boxes on these a swerve, as i would with the podgy shaped Auris 1 which has the MMT automated manual which even Toyota can't get right.
The only thing i didn't like about the Civic is how easy they are to stall, i prfer lugging engines and they are not like that at all, and find yourself a good indy if you don't DIY servicing etc..ie a clutch job is not cheap on one of these except for the Honda specialist in the west mids who work like greased lightning.
Edited by gordonbennet on 14/12/2023 at 12:12
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That’s an interesting point. I certainly do engine oil serving each year, and fiesta 1.25 has been brilliant as well. For my use smaller engines would be perfect though.
Clutch is somewhat of a concern. Is there a reliable way to tell how much life clutch has left used under normal conditions. Someone mentioned ft I should to drive off in 3rd gear - and if it doesn’t stall - clutch is knackered.
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We recently sold the uncles car which by the looks of it would have been perfect for your needs.
I will come to what it was shortly but here are some facts.
He had a 1.25 Fiesta bought new in 2003 until 2019. The last MOT it had in 2018 looked like a disaster in waiting with corrosion in suspension mounting points, corrosion in brake pipes (easy enough to sort theoretically) and corrosion in seat mounting points. We persuaded him to get a new motor. When I drove it most of the dash was lit up and it had little power but the village garage had told him it was OK, bunch of cowboys.
After a search we bought a pre-reg Suzuki Celerio. Only 1 litre but the performance was perfectly OK (was way better than the faulty Fiesta) and the interior and boot space was better than the Fiesta. Only downside, its got zero street cred if that matters.
They offered £450 for the Fiesta, snapped his hand off (and hoped it would get the 20 miles back home and another 20 miles to pick up the Suzuki plus a few shopping trips - it did).
Move on 4 and a bit years and uncle looses his licence for health reasons so Celerio has to go. Only done 3800 miles so plenty of life in it. Went back to the dealer it was bought from but never saw it advertised so no idea what the price was, however, several more similar cars in Yorkshire were up for about £7000.
That Celerio if its looked after should give 10 years pretty much trouble free motoring and bang on your budget. Worth a look simply because its quite a bit newer than the alternatives being suggested.
As for the Fiesta, went for an MOT the week after we took it in, failed in a big way. By some sort of miracle it passed with no advisories 2 days later, god knows how, the list was huge. The MOT the following year was a tale of woe with most of the previous advisories back on and some serious fails again, looks like some cowboys bought it and had a mate MOT it.
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Thanks for sharing the story. It seems there are some very attractive deals for Celerio on Autotrader. But I honestly would struggle to see myself in it.
Hope your uncle is ok.
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Thanks for sharing the story. It seems there are some very attractive deals for Celerio on Autotrader. But I honestly would struggle to see myself in it.
Hope your uncle is ok.
I think you need to reconsider your priorities and work out what you really want. You said that you weren't interested in pizzazz, but you have also said you've lost interest in driving and that a Celerio doesn't do it for you.
Are you actually after something more stylish/interesting? You will keep getting recommended very dull Japanese cars based on what you say you want. If you're after something else, come clean. Nobody here knows you, so it's impossible to be embarrassed.
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Re the 1.8 Civic, my daughter has one as her run around and dog carrier (she has two other increasingly high performance Civics too), i used it during the summer for my work commutes for about 6 weeks, which are not fuel friendly involving crossing two towns with no easy running in between, it averaged 35mpg, she gets similar general dodging about, 40 should be easily attained on better routes.
You can't knock VTEC Hondas for reliability and durability, my daughter has had several 2.0 litre older Civics over the years which she thrashed mercilessly over really high mileages during her work travels, not even a hiccup from any of them,she's never had a single breakdown in probably 500k miles in her Hondas, all except one were bought as well used examples.
They need fresh engine oil every year, they like all Japanese cars need the brakes to be serviced properly regularly (a hobby horse of mine because no almost no one services brakes properly any more), a set of plugs once in a while, a gearbox oil change at say 40k miles, at 80k or so the suspension top mounts might give trouble...remember Northants has third world standard urban roads, might not be the case where you live...other than that they seldom go wrong, but i'd give the automatic boxes on these a swerve, as i would with the podgy shaped Auris 1 which has the MMT automated manual which even Toyota can't get right.
The only thing i didn't like about the Civic is how easy they are to stall, i prfer lugging engines and they are not like that at all, and find yourself a good indy if you don't DIY servicing etc..ie a clutch job is not cheap on one of these except for the Honda specialist in the west mids who work like greased lightning.
To add to GB, the 1.4 ivtec or 1.3- idsi older version both do 45 plus to the gallon in town but need to use the revs as they are idsi 82 hp ivtec 100hp later one, but imo good enough, just had mine written off due to rear ender but would still have it otherwise, had done 65+. though according to fill up was 69mpg on a run and had oil changed every 6 months regardless of mileage, I highly recommend it if you can find a good one as they are getting hard to find in good nick
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Oldest son has 2008 1.8Civic which he drives like a madman chased by horses. Owned for 8 years: no issues at all.
All Hondas with rear disks do need proper brake maintenance as GB say -stripping and cleaning caliper sliders every two to three years. Those which have been neglected have poor handbrakes (on rear disks). Easy job: do it on our Honda Jazz - handbrake is perfect.
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Oldest son has 2008 1.8Civic which he drives like a madman chased by horses. Owned for 8 years: no issues at all.
All Hondas with rear disks do need proper brake maintenance as GB say -stripping and cleaning caliper sliders every two to three years. Those which have been neglected have poor handbrakes (on rear disks). Easy job: do it on our Honda Jazz - handbrake is perfect.
Is this the sort of thing that maintenance workshops (including main dealers) can in theory do but usually don't (except perhaps really high quality outfits) because it's not on the manufacturer's service schedule, and charge way over the odds as an 'extra' if you ask for it?
For those of us not able to do home servicing (for whatever reason), I was just wondering what this sort of thing would set you back if done at a workshop. One of the things that pushed me away from buying a Honda and towards my Mazda was (in addition to the much greater purchase price) the high cost of servicing.
I personally don't mind paying more if you get things like this done which extends the life of parts if it is either cost neutral or in my favour. The problem is there are so many things like this that might be worth doing, e.g. for my car changing the ps fluid and similar 'servicing' on the brakes brakes - neither of which are on the service schedule.
The Aurises (both) and 12-17 Civic are on my list of potential replacements for my Mazda3 as short to medium termers should my car expire and funds are too tight for something much newer.
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Is this the sort of thing that maintenance workshops (including main dealers) can in theory do but usually don't (except perhaps really high quality outfits) because it's not on the manufacturer's service schedule, and charge way over the odds as an 'extra' if you ask for it?
For those of us not able to do home servicing (for whatever reason), I was just wondering what this sort of thing would set you back if done at a workshop. One of the things that pushed me away from buying a Honda and towards my Mazda was (in addition to the much greater purchase price) the high cost of servicing.
I personally don't mind paying more if you get things like this done which extends the life of parts if it is either cost neutral or in my favour. The problem is there are so many things like this that might be worth doing, e.g. for my car changing the ps fluid and similar 'servicing' on the brakes brakes - neither of which are on the service schedule.
The Aurises (both) and 12-17 Civic are on my list of potential replacements for my Mazda3 as short to medium termers should my car expire and funds are too tight for something much newer.
Full brake servicing isn't on Honda's schedule, and i'm unsure which other makers it is if any,goes without saying it should happen where Bentleys and such are maintained, it used to be on Toyota's schedule at every major service (every other year unless you cover high mileage) and at least the dealer who serviced our Hilux they did the job properly including having the pads out and the rear drums off and lubing up sensibly, i checked and was pleased to see the job completed thoroughly...whether this is still the case at Toyota i don't know.
Servicing the brakes properly might take an hour at a decent workshop, if the park brake system is the excellent drum inside disc type then you could easily add another half hour or even an hour to that because the rear calipers have to come off for disc/drum removal, so expect up to £100 at a local indy workshop if no parts are needed.
I love reading posts from people who might have once fitted a set of pads after watching a yoytube video pontificating on how a garage is 'ripping you off mate' because they quoted longer than an hour for fitting a full set of pads and discs all round, these will be the same people who think squirting some brake cleaner about the place comprises a full brake service....which sadly it does at many workshops.
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You’re looking in the right direction with the Auris and Civic. The only Civic to avoid would be early 2012 1.8’s as there was an oil consumption issue, which was later rectified from 2013 onwards. They’re good cars, the 1.8 is a great all rounder but they command noticeably more money than the 1.4, which is perfectly acceptable for low mileage users who don’t feel the need to race around. The 1.6 diesel is the best 4cyl diesel on the road, but with your low usage a DPF equipped diesel would be unwise, plus it’s only Euro 5 and doesn’t meet ULEZ standards. The Auris is a bit dull but they’re very robust. At this money it’ll be a 1.33 or 1.6 petrol as the diesels aren’t any good and the hybrid would have well over 150k up to be under £7k. A Mazda 3 is a good car also, but you’re right in between the Mk I facelift and Mk II cars money wise. A Ford Focus with the robust Yamaha designed 1.6 petrol is good news too. Don’t touch the auto or the 1.0 Ecoboost. Let us know roughly where you are looking and I’ll take a look for worthy options near you.
Wondering whether the KIA C'eed (2012-18) might be worth a look? As per my other post (further down, but from just a few moments ago), it too is on my list if my Mazda3 expires. For the OP's budget (and potentially mine), early examples only probably.
Not sure how they'd hold up over the longer term, especially if they don't have a full service history and preferably at KIA dealerships under the warranty period. Was thinking of the 1.6 petrol (133ps) to avoid any ULEZ type entanglements via going the early model diesels. I'm seeing more now coming into local dealerships as px cars but with high mileage.
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Wondering whether the KIA C'eed (2012-18) might be worth a look? As per my other post (further down, but from just a few moments ago), it too is on my list if my Mazda3 expires. For the OP's budget (and potentially mine), early examples only probably.
Not sure how they'd hold up over the longer term, especially if they don't have a full service history and preferably at KIA dealerships under the warranty period. Was thinking of the 1.6 petrol (133ps) to avoid any ULEZ type entanglements via going the early model diesels. I'm seeing more now coming into local dealerships as px cars but with high mileage.
Not sure on later models but there were some manufacturing methods that could cause issues later down the line on earlier versions, whilst i acknowldege i was still on the transporters when Ceed was launched and they really were very well put together underneath with high quality plastic trunking protecting fuel and brake lines, most unsual in that class of car.
I happened to be at the tyre bay used for our trucks one day a few years ago, used to get on very well with the lads i always made the teas whilst they were sorting my trucks tyres....anyway, one of them had a Ceed up on the ramp and was having to fit new rear discs if i recall, oddly some suspension part was in the way and that part might well have been utilising the securing bolts for the calipers, or something along those lines don't quote me, anyway the bolt was seized as suspension bolts are wont to do and he was having hells own job completing the job. Can't tell you anything else other than rear subframe and suspension corrosion was as bad as a typical Japanese equivalent, though oddly enough Japanese suspension bolts don't tend to be seized solid inthe same way, that's all i can tell you.
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Cheers GB. Much appreciated. Any thoughts, SLO? Are those C'eeds worth a look?
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Cheers GB. Much appreciated. Any thoughts, SLO? Are those C'eeds worth a look?
Sorry, just read this.
In my neck of the woods Kia’s and Hyundai’s are usually flagging up significant rust advisories on MOT’s before they reach 10yrs old. The body may look fine but underneath they’re not up to European or even Japanese standards regarding rust protection. It needs thoroughly checking underneath and the Mot history need’s scrutinised carefully. The trade are aware of how they rot and value older examples accordingly when you try to trade in. Mechanically they’re very dependable, though the jury is still out on the newer DCT autos and 1.0 turbos. Water leaks in the boot are very common too, particularly on the previous gen i20.
Edited by SLO76 on 17/01/2024 at 18:58
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