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Any - Public Charging - mcb100
Legislation for implementation regarding public charging has been drawn up, hopefully to ease some concern among non-EV drivers/owners.

Contactless payments on all chargers of 8kW or faster. No need for lots of apps, but charging via an app will remain the easiest way of getting a receipt.

99% rapid charger reliability.

Open data - meaning they’re more easily findable via an online search.

A free 24/7 helpline at all chargers in case of any issue.

Roaming - the ability to use EV charge cards universally, without being tied to specified networks.

All pricing to be in p/kWh (I’ve never seen it in any other metric).

Edited by mcb100 on 25/07/2023 at 09:24

Any - Public Charging - badbusdriver

With so many variables, I'd be interested to learn how the 99% reliability will be implemented?.

Taking only the actual power supply as an example, in the last year I'd say we have had more power cuts than the previous 10 combined.

Edited by badbusdriver on 25/07/2023 at 09:51

Any - Public Charging - mcb100
Every public charger has cellular or wifi connectivity to communicate between car/charger/grid, so reporting of failures seems straightforward in that the charger will report its own issues.
From what I’ve seen, faults are inevitably of the ‘switch it off/switch it on again’ variety and achievable remotely. Maybe via a free 24 hour helpline?
Any - Public Charging - Xileno

Certainly a step in the right direction. I think it was on Harry's Garage I saw his experience of driving the i-Pace and he complained about the number of different apps needed to charge up.

Any - Public Charging - mcb100
It’s like most things, you can simplify things or you can complicate them for effect.

Yes, I’ve a multitude of apps for charging on my phone, but in reality I think I’ve only used 3 or 4. Instavolt, Tesla, Pod Point and MFG. And I could probably get away with fewer than that by using an EV charging pass that will access multiple networks.

And of those networks, the majority already take contactless payments.
Any - Public Charging - Andrew-T
It’s like most things, you can simplify things or you can complicate them for effect. Yes, I’ve a multitude of apps for charging on my phone, but in reality I think I’ve only used 3 or 4. And of those networks, the majority already take contactless payments.

All this nerdy stuff is very impressive, but quite a few drivers may not have the latest smartphone, apps or expertise to take to it easily. I include myself. But I suppose those drivers won't be going electric anyhow ....

Any - Public Charging - Chris M

EV charging will have to be made as straightforward as filling an ICE. We've all seen/heard of drivers getting in a panic over parking machines which don't take cash. Perhaps a man in a kiosk at the fast charger site who can accept tenners.

Any - Public Charging - Engineer Andy

With so many variables, I'd be interested to learn how the 99% reliability will be implemented?.

Taking only the actual power supply as an example, in the last year I'd say we have had more power cuts than the previous 10 combined.

Not just that, but most of the operational issues with public chargers are related to the poor designed-in reliability and lack of maintainence personnel on hand to fix them, given the majority are in unattended locations.

Not helped by there poresumably being lots of makes, models and generations of them all needing expertise for maintenance / repair, which cannot just appear overnight. It's also why maintenance contracts and especially one-off repairs of a lot of modern tech (e.g. photocopiers, large plan printers, AV, large household appliances, etc) is so expensive.

I remember in my early career as an engineer in the mid-late 90s my employer's A1 plotter developing a fault that took the guy less than 10 minutes to fix but which cost £150, including a £75 callout charge. I also recall getting a similar quote for replacing my previous oven's heating element (I think) with a £25 generic part, and that's with the repair shop literally around the corner from me.

Once the 'real' costs of buying and running (to the same high standard ICE filling stations' equipment is) EV public chargers kick in, I suspect a lot of people will start to baulk over changing from ICE to EV, and more politicians will have second thoughts, as some already appear to be having.

Any - Public Charging - Andrew-T

<< I also recall getting a similar quote for replacing my previous oven's heating element (I think) with a £25 generic part, and that's with the repair shop literally around the corner from me. >>

The first time our cooker element failed I watched what the serviceman did when he came with his £80 callout charge. I ordered another element from Ebay and DIY next time, took me about 5 minutes with a simple screwdriver.

Any - Public Charging - Cris_on_the_gas

No mention of cost or limiting the maximum that can be charged per kWh.

Any - Public Charging - mcb100
‘ but quite a few drivers may not have the latest smartphone,’

No need for latest smartphone, anything from the past few years will do the job. As long as it has the ability to download apps and some connectivity it’ll work.
Or pay contactless.
Instead of a petrol pump with four black hoses and identical looking nozzles, all of which can be made to fit into any filler neck (diesel into petrol excepted), there are two, hefty, cables with plugs on the end, one of which doesn’t look like the other. If the first one is a different size and shape to the socket on the car, it’s the other one.
Plug it in, either touch a contactless card on the pad or press ‘start charge’ (or similar) on your phone and watch a bit of TV on the touchscreen.

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

No disrespect mch100 but if you actually owned an EV instead of assessing/delivering them and having all the time in the world to sit charging then perhaps you could begin to understand why some are somewhat sceptical. I see you frequently reporting on what can only be described as top of the range EVs which one might expect to charge quicker and have more range when using public chargers. I am of average intelligence but find myself struggling to understand all the different scenarios surrounding the electric car. Even your opening post seems to justify a need to improve the early concept of running EVs. Prior to reading this I was reading a report by Autocar on the fastest charging EVs and the chargers they were hooked up to. The cars going from some 20% battery to 80% apparently the optimum shortest time for this. To be honest if a motorist wants to complicate their lives with owning or perhaps leasing one then they need to do one hell of a lot of research or they could easily end up with a lemon that does not suit their needs At the moment GOV seems to be again putting out false messages re the ICE deadline I and many others hope that common sense prevails at least until the country is more ready. It seems that second hand ICE cars are again reported as having increased in value, i do not think it is a case of shortage of stock anymore more a case of people realising that they have a worthwhile asset

Any - Public Charging - mcb100
Silly me, not realising that you had to own something to comment on it.
This forum’s going to be mighty quiet if that’s the case isn’t it?

I’m not retired, I’m working hard and certainly don’t have ‘all the time in the world’ to charge. I put in long days, and, believe me, don’t want to be out of the house any longer than I need to be.
But I have acknowledged that EV is the foreseeable future for driving, and I’m prepared to work around it. If a rest break on a long journey now takes 30 minutes instead of 15, then so be it.
I’m very comfortable with the knowledge that the journey I’m making is now zero emissions at the tailpipe.

The charging experience is exactly the same whether I arrive as an EV specialist, product trainer or whichever other job role I’m fulfilling that day.

I post on here to help counter the numerous other posts linked to clickbait from various right wing publications that currently have an anti-EV agenda.

I look forward to your comments on the BBC programme tonight on electric cars.
Any - Public Charging - sammy1
Silly me, not realising that you had to own something to comment on it. This forum’s going to be mighty quiet if that’s the case isn’t it? I’m not retired, I’m working hard and certainly don’t have ‘all the time in the world’ to charge. I put in long days, and, believe me, don’t want to be out of the house any longer than I need to be. But I have acknowledged that EV is the foreseeable future for driving, and I’m prepared to work around it. If a rest break on a long journey now takes 30 minutes instead of 15, then so be it. I’m very comfortable with the knowledge that the journey I’m making is now zero emissions at the tailpipe. The charging experience is exactly the same whether I arrive as an EV specialist, product trainer or whichever other job role I’m fulfilling that day. I post on here to help counter the numerous other posts linked to clickbait from various right wing publications that currently have an anti-EV agenda. I look forward to your comments on the BBC programme tonight on electric cars.

I fully respect your position as a hard working individual mores the pity there are not more like you. As I have said before my views are entirely my own on EVs and currently one would not suit my lifestyle. Your recent comment on EVs handling just about did it for me and I am surprised that this being a motoring forum nobody else seems to have picked up on this. I will not be watching the BBC programme what do they know about EVs or politicians finances come to that. I wonder, if you had £20 -30K would you risk it on an EV? I would not.

Any - Public Charging - alan1302
I will not be watching the BBC programme what do they know about EVs

Why don't you watch it and find out? They might surprise you.

Any - Public Charging - Andrew-T

<< I will not be watching the BBC programme what do they know about EVs or politicians finances come to that. >>

What a contemptible and pointless attitude - you will never know what was said, or be able to comment usefully afterwards. Actually I found it quite well done, without adding much to what has been said on here. In particular about the potential global demand for battery materials.

Edited by Andrew-T on 25/07/2023 at 23:24

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

<< I will not be watching the BBC programme what do they know about EVs or politicians finances come to that. >>

What a contemptible and pointless attitude - you will never know what was said, or be able to comment usefully afterwards. Actually I found it quite well done, without adding much to what has been said on here. In particular about the potential global demand for battery materials.

So an hour saved then and the same again tomorrow. Who are you to tell me how to spend my time. The ball park is changing all the time with EVs I expect the programme is already out of date and coming from the BBC hardly unbiased

Any - Public Charging - badbusdriver

No disrespect mch100 but

If you don't actually want to disrespect mcb 100, you should probably start with the correct username.

if you actually owned an EV instead of assessing/delivering them and having all the time in the world to sit charging then perhaps you could begin to understand why some are somewhat sceptical.

The only thing mcb 100's posts are not helpful for is seeing long term reliability on an EV. That still makes them about 95% more useful than what you spout about EV's. And who says he has all the time in the world to to sit charging? (and why would he need to?).

I see you frequently reporting on what can only be described as top of the range EVs

Like the Vauxhall Astra?

top of the range EVs which one might expect to charge quicker and have more range when using public chargers.

Perhaps you should do some research first then. In some cases yes, in most, no. And in either case, an EV will have no more range using a public charger than a home charger.

I am of average intelligence but find myself struggling to understand all the different scenarios surrounding the electric car.

I really can't see what is so complicated about it. I can't charge at home, but with my usage I would have been quite happy to go with a Renault Zoe for our next (Motability) car. Only the lack of space for rear passengers feet changed my mind.

Even your opening post seems to justify a need to improve the early concept of running EVs.

Even the most evangelical EV supporter (and I certainly wouldn't use that description for mcb 100) would not deny that the public charging infrastructure needs to be better, so even by your standards this is a bizarre statement to make.

The cars going from some 20% battery to 80% apparently the optimum shortest time for this.

Considering all you claim to read about EV's, and all the time you (apparently) spend watching EV owners/users at public chargers, and all the times this has been spoken of on previous EV threads I find it inexplicable that you have just become aware of this now!.

To be honest if a motorist wants to complicate their lives with owning or perhaps leasing one then they need to do one hell of a lot of research

They really don't.

they could easily end up with a lemon that does not suit their needs

Which of course could never happen with an ICE car..........

It seems that second hand ICE cars are again reported as having increased in value,

I'm sure in your vivid imagination, the sole reason for this is the impending EV armageddon. And nothing at all to do with Covid resulting in a huge amount of uncertainty over jobs, then by the ensuing and continuing cost of living crisis, both resulting in people hanging on to the car they have rather than splashing out on a new one (regardless of how it is powered).

i do not think it is a case of shortage of stock anymore more a case of people realising that they have a worthwhile asset

Thinking and knowing are two different things though.

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

"""The cars going from some 20% battery to 80% apparently the optimum shortest time for this.

Considering all you claim to read about EV's, and all the time you (apparently) spend watching EV owners/users at public chargers, and all the times this has been spoken of on previous EV threads I find it inexplicable that you have just become aware of this now!.""

I am only going to pick up on this in your quite ridiculous rant that you are prone to from time to time. I am well aware of battery charging on EVs the 80% is a bit like the ""splash and dash"" in motorsport except that with your EV it gives you less range in the fact that you sacrifice it for time. So having lost 20% or more from the outset that you buy the car you loose ""drivers choice"" another 20% of range by only charging it 80% You cannot win with an EV if you need range it will cost you time.

PS I think the OP is quite able to speak for himself as are my views. I respect yours so why not reciprocate the courtesy.

Any - Public Charging - SLO76
About time. They badly need to simplify the public EV charging network, it’s a deterrent, especially for the elderly. One app should connect to all and manage payment, it can’t be difficult. Or simply allow card payments, I can’t see why you need an app anyway when it should be a simple contactless transaction when you have to pay.

So far we’ve only used the Charge Scotland network (which is mostly free) and one other (the name of which escapes me) which required downloading another app, but this was quite straightforward but mildly time consuming when it would’ve been much easier and quicker as a simple contactless card payment.

Surprises me that no one thought to act on this until now. Older more affluent drivers who largely keep to within 50 miles of home are the very people we need to be buying new EV’s to keep good used examples at more realistic prices entering the market. They need to feel confident that they can charge their cars away from home without hassle when required.

Edited by SLO76 on 25/07/2023 at 19:36

Any - Public Charging - madf

Just watching BBC's "Electric Cars what they mean for you"

The unsurprising issue was the need to get so many permissions from Councils to install charging stations, duplication of effort and no attempt by the Government to streamline the system.

Same story applies for connecting the National Grid to high speed charging systems.

A story in both cases of utter indifference by the Government in facilitating taking action to meet its own objectives.

Edited by madf on 25/07/2023 at 21:04

Any - Public Charging - mcb100
‘I wonder, if you had £20 -30K would you risk it on an EV?’

Of course I would.
Any - Public Charging - SLO76
‘I wonder, if you had £20 -30K would you risk it on an EV?’ Of course I would.

Not on a new one, but on a good used one that has shed 50% of its value by year three, why not? There’s very little to go wrong. As long as the range suits you, or you don’t mind a wee rest stop every two hours or so if you’re going further afield then they’re a good option.
Any - Public Charging - badbusdriver

your quite ridiculous rant that you are prone to from time to time.

Hmm, the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

PS I think the OP is quite able to speak for himself as are my views. I respect yours so why not reciprocate the courtesy.

This has nothing to do with respecting views or opinions, but challenging statements which range from ill-informed, to downright nonsense.

If someone came on here saying they thought a Mazda 2.2 turbo diesel would be the ideal vehicle for short urban journeys, that view would also be challenged.

Any - Public Charging - Andrew-T

your quite ridiculous rant that you are prone to from time to time.

Hmm, the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

Without wishing to appear to take sides, I would just comment that to me BBD seems one of our more moderate contributors. 'Ridiculous rant' ? - I don't think so.

Any - Public Charging - Xileno

And now back to discussing the EV issues please, although I think we've pretty much nailed this one. Anything that makes public charging easier surely is to be welcomed especially contactless payment.

Mod

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

your quite ridiculous rant that you are prone to from time to time.

Hmm, the words pot, kettle and black spring to mind.

PS I think the OP is quite able to speak for himself as are my views. I respect yours so why not reciprocate the courtesy.

This has nothing to do with respecting views or opinions, but challenging statements which range from ill-informed, to downright nonsense.

If someone came on here saying they thought a Mazda 2.2 turbo diesel would be the ideal vehicle for short urban journeys, that view would also be challenged.

Would you like to share your views on my reply to the 80% charging

[Unnecessary remark removed - Mod]

Edited by Xileno on 26/07/2023 at 10:46

Any - Public Charging - pd

The 80% charging issue I thought was well understood.

Fast charging slows above about 80% so unless you really need the extra 20 it's not a good investment of your time so you are better getting on your way rather than hanging about for it to trickle charge up to 100%.

Seems a fairly simple concept to me.

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

The 80% charging issue I thought was well understood.

Fast charging slows above about 80% so unless you really need the extra 20 it's not a good investment of your time so you are better getting on your way rather than hanging about for it to trickle charge up to 100%.

Seems a fairly simple concept to me.

Yes the concept is very simple but hardly the point if you are purchasing am EV and the car is potentially operating on a 80% range for best needs of its power source. I suspect a lot of would be buyers would be unaware. " not a lot of people know that" as MC would say. I would love to be a fly on the wall in a dealer showroom to hear just what some customers are told

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

Here is the Autocar article re Fast Charging and how it can vary considerably depending on the car and charger type. Autocar in my experience always do a thorough job with their research and go into a lot of depth. The lead into the article if you cannot be bothered with the rest is good. Complicated depends on your grey matter and whether you are seriously interested in buying the right car

How fast do electric cars really charge? | Autocar

Any - Public Charging - FP

"... the concept is very simple but hardly the point if you are purchasing am EV and the car is potentially operating on a 80% range for best needs of its power source."

Simply for practical reasons an EV operates on 80% of its maximum charge/range when charging in the middle of a long journey. If you need 100% at the start of a long journey you charge it at home, where the cost will be lower anyway.

Whether a lot of potential buyers would be aware I don't know, but I have little sympathy for those who cannot work out how best to use whatever vehicle they purchase by doing their homework beforehand.

And I don't get where you're coming from in seeking to find nit-picking problems with EVs. The big issues we know about and have been done to death here and elsewhere: (1) range, (2) availability of charging points and practical problems in their use, and (3) overall cost. The rest are largely details about how to get the best out of the kit, as with any piece of machinery.

Any - Public Charging - sammy1

"And I don't get where you're coming from in seeking to find nit-picking problems with EVs""

I do not mind nit picking to just state a fact.. Manufacturer says for example range 250 miles fact is near 200 miles especially in winter, charge it to 80% and you are left with 160 miles max so probably in trouble when you get down to 20miles left on a good day Means in practice to me of only about 140 miles of realistic range unless my maths are wonky.

Any - Public Charging - Terry W

The charging and range constraint only impacts on long trips beyond 80% but below 100% range. Above 100% range recharging is necessary anyway.

To use your figures - 250 miles fully charged range. 200mils at 80%. Assume batteries are recharged with an estimated 25 miles range remaining.

Range comparison - 175 miles vs 225 miles if starting with 100% charge. All journeys below 175 miles can be done on a single charge. Any above 225 miles will need a recharge.

Individual use varies. If you routinely travel between 175 and 225 miles - either chose a car with greater range, lower range with lower cost (smaller batteries), or recharge enroute.

A rather daft rational to use as the basis of a generalised criticism of EV choice.

Any - Public Charging - FP

"Manufacturer says for example range 250 miles fact is near 200 miles especially in winter, charge it to 80% and you are left with 160 miles max so probably in trouble when you get down to 20miles left on a good day Means in practice to me of only about 140 miles of realistic range unless my maths are wonky."

Which shows you can do your homework and know what you're dealing with. So what's the problem? If 140 miles range works for you, that's fine.

If I apply this to my motoring life, an EV such as the one you describe would function for me on the longest trip I tend to do, which is from Hertfordshire to Newcastle (260 miles with an overnight stop before returning), in the following way: Start off with a full charge at home - 200 miles. One stop for charging -140 miles. Arrive at destination with 80 miles of charge. The return journey depends on whether I'm able to charge overnight. If not, two stops for charging. Arrive home with plenty left.

I really can't see why this is hard to understand and to manage.

Any - Public Charging - Lee Power

"And I don't get where you're coming from in seeking to find nit-picking problems with EVs""

I do not mind nit picking to just state a fact.. Manufacturer says for example range 250 miles fact is near 200 miles especially in winter, charge it to 80% and you are left with 160 miles max so probably in trouble when you get down to 20miles left on a good day Means in practice to me of only about 140 miles of realistic range unless my maths are wonky.

Manufacturers only legally allowed to quote the official WLTP figures, exactly the same law if the vehicle was petrol or diesel powered.

Blame the WLTP testing regime & EU law makers for the unrealistic EV range figures published by vehicle manufactures.

Any - Public Charging - pd

The car I am currently driving does 62.8mpg which means it has a range of 968 miles. According to the manufacturer.

It doesn't.

Plus ca change.