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I agree, but they work at the same company as me so I trusted them ( please nobody else mention the fact I should have got cash or bankers draft).
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You're prepared to have a sour deal with someone who works at the same company as you? Rather you than me!
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well there are 4000 of us and I'm not likely to ever bump into them :-)
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Bad luck pete. It was a mistake to release the car untill the cheque clears. But the buyer should of satisfied himself as to the condition of the vehicle before he drove it away. Thats his problem. He owes you the money you agreed. He basically rung you to say, i have made a mistake. Its not your problem, unless you tried to pretend the car was something it isnt. I hope for your sake he doesnt cancel the cheque.
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Its a case of "Buyer beware" they should have checked before they drove away in the car. If they bounce the cheque by cancelling you are in your rights to sue them ,., they dont have any case .
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John Shelton is right. There is no defence in law against a cancelled cheque.
Regards.
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Until he/she becomes >> well there are 4000 of us and I'm not likely toever bump into them :-)
Until he gets moved to human resources or becomes your manager :)
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If you haven't already presented the check, you can usually have them cleared immediately by taking it into the bank and paying a fee for "Transax", not sure how much as people have only used it when I'm paying them.
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This happened to me last year when I sold a Saab to a Doctor just across the border in the Republic of Ireland. He asked me to bring the car to the hospital where he worked and then we went to a mechanic who took the car apart, he agreed it was fine and after some haggling a deal was struck. Doc left me to the bus station with a substanial cheque which I then went to cash at the bank. It was the day before the bank holiday and the place was choc a bloc so I posted the cheaque into the quick pay.Bus home - happy man. Three weeks later he rang to say he wasn't happy with the car - overheating so he had cabcelled the cheque two days after issuing it. He was now in London with his family and the car was in the garage of one of his friends also from Pakistan! He was working in London and couldn't care less. Can't think why he rang. Eventually got £1200 from him after threatening to go to the Garda (Irish Police)so that if ever he came back to Ireland they would be waiting for him for fraud. Lost £1300 but learned a lesson - no cash - no car.
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Sooty, I think that you are getting the wrong of the stick. The transax service is used by retailers to make sure that the cheque wont bounce (and in return transax takes a cut of the amount recieved for the risk they take). They have a list of account numbers etc they wont deal with (or where cheque books are reported stolen with a cheque card) so in Pete's case it would be too late.
The only guranteed payment is cash or a CLEARED bankers draft or building society cheque (bankers drafts do get stolen or faked and they do get returned unpaid, despite what people are led to believe). Even better if someone sends the money direct to your bank account using CHAPS(10-30 quid).
I dont think that you have any chance of them doing a service for an odd cheque, you have to a bona fide retailer before they will consider you.
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It's not called Transax but you can pay a few quid to have the cheque cleared quickly.
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I think what you did was perfectly acceptable. Many people forget to top up the oil and although it can have serious mechanical problems, they were in the wrong for not checking it.
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It's not called Transax but you can pay a few quid to have the cheque cleared quickly.
It's called 'special clearance'. When I worked in a bank it cost roughly £20 and involved a phone call to the payer's bank for approval.
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Looking laterally the fact that the oil needed topping up shows the car is genuine and you havent just topped it up for the sale!
Fullchat
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I think everyone is mising the point here - the buyer CAN'T legally cancel the cheque !
Unless the person who cashes the cheque is not the payee, your buyer has NO LEGAL RIGHT to cancel a cheque - even if the goods he bought were defective, etc. Your buyer would have to prove the your car was actually defective, and take action to recover his monies through the courts. If he cancels his cheque, you can simply begin a County Court action to recover the funds on the basis of not honouring his cheque - there is no defence for this in law !
:-)
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I think everyone is mising the point here - the buyer CAN'T legally cancel the cheque ! Unless the person who cashes the cheque is not the payee, your buyer has NO LEGAL RIGHT to cancel a cheque - even if the goods he bought were defective, etc.
I agree, arnold2.
This is exactly what I was told by a solicitor many years ago.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Completely correct.
The law has long held that cheques should be treated as if they are as good as cash. If a cheeque bounces through insufficient funds, you have to serve a notice of dishonour. If the cheque is actually stopped, you do not. You can then sue on the cheque, and there a only a very limited number of defences (icluding fraud, total failure of consideration and some cases of misrepresentation). Therefore it is usually possible to get summary judgment in the court, hence avoiding the need to go through all the normal costly steps in litigation.
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Pete2003,
I'm sorry the advice package from me has to start with the never ever take a cheque thing. I would be reluctant even to take a cheque and then save the car, even that is fraught with delay and risk.
Anyway you want to get this resolved. I'm sorry but the *legal* position and the *practical* position are a mile apart. If you get nasty with this guy now he could take the car to a dealer and get an estimate to bring its servicing up to date. He could then cancel his cheque and send you a new one for the sale price less this work.
I say he *could*...not that that is a *legal* right. Ok so you might believe you would be able to win that difference back but it would be a court procedure you would have to start and fund. Even if the guy is one in 4000 where you work it could be very difficult, involve months of aggro and loads of stress.
If I were you I'd phone him *today* and say without admitting liability and as a gesture of goodwill could he call back tonight and you'll supply him with a gallon of semi-syn oil, oil filter and a set of spark plugs. Say you're sorry he found the car less than perfect when he got home but you had no intention to mislead him.
This friendly genuine approach should ensure his cheque clears and then once it has refuse to discuss any other issues at all with him...ever.
For an expenditure of perhaps £25 you will guarantee your sale and if he ever takes it/other issues further you'll have demonstrated goodwill that should make any advisor tell him to take a walk.
I say this having noticed you say how pleased you were to sell the car so £25 invested in confirming the sale will be well worth it...yes??
M.M
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I agree with MM. For what it's worth, I once bought a car that turned out to have almost no oil in it (despite a recent service!) and it ran fine for years. Still going, I believe, aged 20.
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Yup - good advice from MM - it might be all that's needed to take the sting out of it for your disenchanted buyer.
Out of interest Pete, have you had starting problems with the vehicle prior to this sale? Not that it's any of my business, but was the car nicely warmed up when the buyer came to test drive it? (Bitter memories of a Mk1 Ibiza diesel that drove fine on the test drive - when I handed over the money the next day + got in to drive off from cold I nearly wept at my stupidity).
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The car starts from cold first time every time, but I have left is unused for the last couple of months apart from the occasional spin to keep it ticking over.
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It's a good point you make about the practical vs legal position. Maybe I could offer to post him a cheque for the cost of the oil and filter, then cancel it as soon as I find his cheque has cleared!
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As a point of interest. ( please nobody else mention the fact I should have got cash or bankers draft).I did not mention it.But as you have yes.you should have.Good luck.
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>> It's not called Transax but you can pay a few quid >> to have the cheque cleared quickly. >> It's called 'special clearance'. When I worked in a bank it cost roughly £20 and involved a phone call to the payer's bank for approval.
And 'special clearance' does not come with a guarantee regarding time. They have been known to take longer! Beware.
Regards.
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>> It's called 'special clearance'. When I worked in a bank it >> cost roughly £20 and involved a phone call to the payer's >> bank for approval.
Hi,
Pete have you checked on the Cheques progress? If it has bounced, I would be curious as to the phrase used?
With respect to Special Clearance, the cheque is physically sent overnight by your bank to wherever your purchasers bank account is. It should be processed on the business day it is received (so if you send it Friday then it would be paid on a Monday). But the money is sent back through the ordinary clearing system, so it can still take 3-4 days to reach your account in cleared funds. During the first 48 hours of the cycle from point of payment it is still possible for the paying bank to cancel the payment under advice to your bank and branch.
If you still have the cheque in your hands, you can ask your bank to ring the paying bank with an "in order and in hands enquiry" which is a comfort measure which should mean that the paying bnak will verbally indicate the likelehood of payment, as if they had the cheque in their hands. The answer is not binding on any bank but it could be a source of comfort to you. Have a care, however, as this is falling into disuse and most modern bank clerks do not know about it.
Good luck and please remind me never to buy a used car from you
regards
Vercin
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If you still have the cheque in your hands, you can ask your bank to ring the paying bank with an "in order and in hands enquiry" which is a comfort measure which should mean that the paying bnak will verbally indicate the likelehood of payment, as if they had the cheque in their hands. The answer is not binding on any bank but it could be a source of comfort to you. Have a care, however, as this is falling into disuse and most modern bank clerks do not know about it.
It was common practice (maybe one or two enquiries per day) when I worked in a bank but I've just realised that this was almost 10 years ago. As far as I can remember (and please excuse hazy memory if I'm wrong), its only real purpose was to establish whether the drawer had sufficient funds for the cheque to be paid.
The procedure would be of limited usefulness because the cheque would not be 'in our hands' until it had passed through the clearing system and 'in order' could exclude a multitude of sins.
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Hiya,
It was common practice (maybe one or two enquiries per day) when I worked in a bank but I've just realised that this was almost 10 years ago. As far as I can remember (and please excuse hazy memory if I'm wrong), its only real purpose was to establish whether the drawer had sufficient funds for the cheque to be paid.
When I was on clearing we also had a note of cheques where the branch had instructions "not to pay" (i.e. stopped) or where it was a stolen cheqe book. So the cunning plan for Pete here would be to see if the purchaser had already stopped the cheque!
The procedure would be of limited usefulness because the cheque would not be 'in our hands' until it had passed through the clearing system and 'in order' could exclude a multitude of sins.
Absolutely agree with your analysis. Which is why an answer from the bank would not be binding, but it might flush out one of those multitude of sins.
regards
Vercin
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>>It's a good point you make about the practical vs legal position. Maybe I could offer to post him a cheque for the cost of the oil and filter, then cancel it as soon as I find his cheque has cleared!
If you really mean that then you've missed the point and spirit of my comments.
M.M
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"It's a good point you make about the practical vs legal position. Maybe I could offer to post him a cheque for the cost of the oil and filter, then cancel it as soon as I find his cheque has cleared!"
I trust that is a joke. If not, it's despicable.
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Okay, back in your corners lads, this board does not come with a full array of smileys to indicate tounge in cheek mode etc. I automatically assumed that he was kidding.
If the car had been left in the garage for a couple of months then it's quite possible that the oil level was low, also the guy could have checked the oil level as soon as he got back with the car and the oil hadn't settled in the sump. I wouldn't regard it as a major sin on the part of the seller unless there's a large puddle of oil in the middle of the garage. I agree with M.M. though that a cheque for new oil and filter is the most likey way to avoid further agro.
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Generally in this context the exclamation mark would indicate that the comment was made tongue-in-cheek.
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I'm not going to do this, but I think it would be quite reasonable - as far as I'm concerned, he should pay me the full ammount since he actually told me to write "sold as seen on the receipt". This would just be a way for me to increase the chances of him not cancelling.
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To be honest, old chap, I no longer care what happens to you or what you do.
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Lol Pete2003 I cannot believe some people replying to your oil and filter and cheque post thought you were being serious!!
Obviously they have a sense of humour by-pass!
P.S. If the Mods think I am being too critical of others please feel free to delete this post! lol!
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Rather than trying to mince through over who knows more about cancelling cheques and quick clearance its been 4 days now. Has he cancelled his cheque or has it all gone away?!
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At last, the cheque has cleared, so all that fuss over nothing. Thanks anyway.
I have the number of the honda repairs garage incase he phones with any more complaints :-)
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I say old boy. I'm sure you do care really otherwise why spend your time answering my comments!
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Its a pity that after asking for help Pete you now manage to sound very abrasive and arrogant...
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Wow, isn't it strange how we can interpret peoples posting in such different ways. I read Pete's last comment as a veiled apology for having a previous comment misinterpreted, along with a thank you for contributing to the discussion.
Perhaps I'm hopelessly niaive - but in this medium I really think you should give people the benefit of the doubt.
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As this has now been resolved, and the outcome a happy one, I'm write locking this thread to prevent further *misinterpretations*.
--
Dynamic Dave
Back Room Moderator
mailto:dave_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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