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As we move towards a Police state, you will see the Police less and less, for what you would call a crime, the traffic Police in Nottingham were completely disbanded a few years ago as a 'pilot scheme' and it has been hailed a success even though it's a didaster. In fact, in the London borough of Merton, the Police have been enlisted in full uniform to deliver party political leaflets for the ruling party!
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Ivor,
"There has been so much cutback in police budgets,"
Not sure that is correct. Spending on Police has increased a great deal and we now have the highest number of police in our history. How the money is spent is another matter.
The N Wales police chief is very strong on all forms of traffic policing and yet gets a huge amount of stick on this site.
Many of the posts seem to argue(reasonably) that police should concentrate on muggers etc and leave us persecuted motorists alone. Yet we have a perfectly reasonable argument in this thread arguing for more traffic policing.
Seems the police are in a no win situation.
C
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Our Police precept on the rates rose by 11% this financial year yet at times we have only a one handed figure number of dedicated traffic cars on the road
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The Police have to do much much more paperwork to get a case to court these days, they have to cover their backs ten times over, they are continually sent on courses such as "managing the sexuality of detainees", "diversity awareness" etc... the Police see ordinary people who make a rare slip-up as an easy target without all the hassle of stopping the clapped-out car full of unrestrained ghetto figures (will I get stabbed, spat at or a complaint made against me or shall I stop him and have him say sorry?) Not only all this, but we are letting almost a million dubious people into the country every year whose history is unknown, other than their own country picks on them.... Hmmmmm.
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ST,
So we can deduce from both your posts:
The police are hard done by? - too much paperwork etc
The police are scared of enforcing the Law?
The police can recognise the "ordinary people who make a rare slip up" and persecute them?
The police are in some way responsible for the 'dubious million'?
We are "moving toward a police state". Is that good or bad from your perspective? After all they could shoot or deport the dubious million.
"In fact, in the London borough of Merton, the Police have been enlisted in full uniform to deliver party political leaflets for the ruling party!"
Are you sure? Who enlisted them?
How does this anti-police rhetoric relate to the thread.
C
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I do not see any anti-police rhetoric, rather a lamentation of the conditions they have to work under, which it is suggested contribute to the situation which is the subject of the thread.
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All I know is that I used to see traffic police driving along, and felt reassured that the roads were being kept safe.
Then, as time passed, I began only to see traffic police in laybays, setting speed traps. I felt as if Big brother was watching me and waiting for me to make a mistake, but at least there was an human element in the system that was trying to keep it sensible and fair.
Now I see no traffic police but plenty of cameras, and have the distinct impression that those in authority don't care if I drive with my eyes shut so long as I'm within the speed limit. It seems that many other road users have taken this advice to heart, and I no longer feel that the roads are being kept safe.
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Come on Cardew, I was only saying the Police's role in society has been changed for them, and while individual Police Officers do a very difficult job as well as possible under difficult circumstances, they are still largely ineffectual. Police now rarely proactively patrol looking for people who are acting suspiciously, or obviously flouting the law, they respond to 999 calls to areas they have little local knowledge of, and even then, not for crimes such as crimes against the property or crimes against people which are about to happen but haven't yet. There used to be a time when a person would not bother doing something wrong as there would probably a copper coming round the corner just as they did it, but now, you're more likely to win the lottery than have one come round the corner. The criminals know this, they also know that when the Police catch them they can use their experience of the system to get let off. The Police are now just used to setup equipment to spot one or two specific crimes which quite often are committed accidently rather than with deliberate malice or intention, and they simply operate equipment for fine collecting.
You only have to look around to see we were better off before things were 'modernised'.
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Surrey police clearly read this site and take note!
Saw traffic cars keeping an eye on the M25 Surrey stretch both on the way out this morning and on the way home this afternoon. Neither pair of officers appeared to be setting a speed trap, they just seemed to be watching for poor driving.
Well done to them. We just need to educate the other forces now.
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I often see police on the M4 on my way to and from work (and not just at accidents) so I thinks it's a bit unfair to make blanket statements about there being no police. Nor do I think that Jonny Scrote behaves the way he does because he thinks he's not going to get pulled over - he does so because he knows that even if he does he's not going to suffer any real penalty.
Case 1: Jonny driving without insurance, gets pulled over and booked. pays £200 fine (figure taken from today's Independent) saves himself several hundred if he gets pulled over once that year
Case 2: Jonny drives a big fast new car, gets pulled for doing 95 on motorway. Gets £120 fine realises that he gets paid more than that for a days work - considers it good value for money to drive at whatever speed he pleases.
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Essex police also disbanded their traffic division some time ago. I know because I bought 5 of their motorbikes the night they were all sold off.
On Radio 2 today the editor of the New Statesman said that there was no difference between a speeding motorist and a child molester as they both 'hurt children'. This is actually what he said.
Admitedly they were only wheeling out the big guns on the Baghdad Broadcasting Society to defend the latest government attempt to extract cash from car drivers (or ATM's as they are know at the Treasury) but I despair...
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" there was no difference between a speeding motorist and a child molester as they both 'hurt children"
So is Jack Straw's driver (caught at >90mph a few years ago) going on the Sex Offenders Register?
I think not...
madf
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Or Harriet Harman (this country's Solicitor General), banned for doing 99mph up the M4?
I think the H.H. case is particularly interesting because it shows how easy it is to find yourself speeding well above the limit without meaning to. She had her son in the car, so it is not very likely she would have been deliberately taking any risks (never mind the political reputation). She was simply driving at a speed which must have appeared reasonable in the circumstances, but was looking at the traffic rather than the speedo.
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Or Harriet Harman (this country's Solicitor General), banned for doing 99mph up the M4? I think the H.H. case is particularly interesting because it shows how easy it is to find yourself speeding well above the limit without meaning to. She had her son in the car, so it is not very likely she would have been deliberately taking any risks (never mind the political reputation). She was simply driving at a speed which must have appeared reasonable in the circumstances, but was looking at the traffic rather than the speedo.
I don't know the details of that case, but in general I would be rather worried about being driven by someone who couldn't tell the difference between 99mph and 70mph, without looking at the speedo. Sure, someone driving a car much faster and quieter than they are used to might be misled by the absence of wind- and road-noise, but the sight of rest of the traffic zooming backwards past them should be enough of a clue.
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Essex police also disbanded their traffic division some time ago. I know because I bought 5 of their motorbikes the night they were all sold off.
No, they did away with the motorcycles only - they still operate a large number of traffic cars.
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Quite right, frostbite, retained the traffic section but did away with motorbikes, traffic section has still reduced though. Essex Police have also disbanded their mounted section(horses) and no longer have a police diving section either, and as the county with the longest coastline in the country, are just about retaining a marine section.
Funnily enough in a survey published last week 66% of people in Essex would like to see more officers on the beat, I wonder what happened to the manpower from all the disbanded sections?
Cockle
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I wonder what happened to the manpower from all the disbanded sections?
Probably most transferred to more enlightened forces. Must have done wonders for the clearup rate of nuisance bikers!
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Funnily enough in a survey published last week 66% of people in Essex would like to see more officers on the beat, I wonder what happened to the manpower from all the disbanded sections?
Hi Cockle,
Where was the above survey published?
regards
Vercin
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Cockle,
"Funnily enough in a survey published last week 66% of people in Essex would like to see more officers on the beat,"
There really does seem to be some confusion in this thread over traffic police and "officers on the beat."
As stated earlier, initially this thread was arguing that the reduction of traffic police was wrong and resulted in increased casualties etc.
Well the reason dedicated traffic police have been cut is to put "more officers on the beat". The reasoning being that a proportion of the work carried out by highly trained traffic police in large patrol cars could be done by 'normal' police in 'Panda' cars.
I suspect it is a finely balanced argument. However given finite resources we can't have more traffic police and more "on the beat"?
C
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The reasoning being that a proportion of the work carried out by highly trained traffic police in large patrol cars could be done by 'normal' police in 'Panda' cars.
But when did you last see a Panda car on the motorway?
In fact, when did you last see a panda car (in the Thames Valley area at least)?
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Cockle - 'Essex is the county with the longest coastline'???. Where did that come from?
I know there are lots of inlets on the Essex coast but I certainly think Cornwall gives Essex a run for their money on the coastline front and probably Devon and Northumbria as well.
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Yep, from www.cornwall.gov.uk - Cornwall has "697km/435 miles of coastline, the longest of any English county. "
www.hidden-treasures.co.uk considers the Essex coastline "awesome", www.eastofenglandtouristboard.com says it's "unspoilt" but none mention "longest".
Sorry to disappoint!
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Ok, now we've got that little nugget of useless information sorted out, can we get the thread back to motoring please?
[Awaits first post to suggest driving the coastline of various counties with an air of inevitability]
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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If they say the Essex coastline is unspoilt, then they might as well call it the longest....
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Comments from speed camera supporters are strangely thin on the ground after this article.
Where are the usual comments along the lines of how speed cameras have saved "n" number of lives?
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Shhh! Quiet at the back please.
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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If they say the Essex coastline is unspoilt, then they might as well call it the longest....
>>
Well, goes to prove that you can't believe everything you read, I'll give way to Cornwall on length, Essex coastline is 341 miles. My source for Essex having the longest coastline is the CPRE website which actually says as much, thought I could trust the CPRE! As for the unspoilt it certainly is, at least the vast majority of it anyway, and the more of the population that believes otherwise, the better, so we locals can enjoy it in peace.
The survey findings I referred to about 66% wanting more beat officers was actually an item on BBC Essex Monday morning but I can't find any reference to it as yet on the police website.
Back to the point of the thread, as far as I'm concerned an officer on the beat can be either on foot around the streets or patrolling the roads, it's a question of a meaningful presence.
Our motorcycle officers used to fulfil a very useful function in that they were respected by the biker fraternity in a way that no officer in a car ever will be and were able to educate as well as police because of that respect. I think there can be little better evidence than the marked increase in fatal motorbike accidents over the last few years since the motorcycle section was disbanded. Also they were a continual presence on the roads and were very good at popping up in the most unexpected places, a function that can't be fulfilled by a very garish police car. IMHO the disbanding of this section was totally counter productive and should be reinstated ASAP.
Cockle
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