Mark when I got to the scene they had moved the cars back into the carpark and my wife was rather distraught and all she could really tell me was he moved of from the junction after a car had passed on the main road, She started away and looked to the right to ensure there was no other cars coming and seeing it clear kept moving. As she did this and looked forward again he had stopped almost at the same time she hit him. She was distraught as it was her first bump and said how kind the man had been to her.
He was an Iraqi man who was very pleasant and showed me the damage to this large bumper. Strangely enough there was one pinhole and tiny chips well away from this.
My wifes car struck with only the headlamp and indicator glass and it was difficult to understand how other cosmetic damage 2 feet from the pinhole could have been made by the headlight glass. I didnt pursue this with him mainly I suppose because I was more concerned about my wife and that he had been very good about it. I commented to him that the main thing was that no-one had been hurt and his response was to twist his head round and say that his neck was stiff.
Having seen many posts about this previously I could see where he was coming from and simply exchanged insurance details and address.. having said that my wifes neck has began to hurt so I shouldnt complain about his. I rang my insurance company and a girl took details. She said someone would ring me tomorrow about where to take the car for repair and said she did't work for the Insurance company but was (I think) Green Flag who took calls after normal hours.
alvin
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Am I right in thinking that there was an article in the papers about this recently - say about a month or so ago? (Probably the Telegraph or Sunday Times) People deliberately stopping after pulling out at a roundabout knowing that the chances are that the following driver is at that moment looking right to check the traffic. Insurance companies suspicions raised when people in one street somewhere (Birmingham??) made half a dozen similar claims - mainly for whiplash in very low speed rear-end collisions? Might be worth doing a search? Or perhaps others can remember the article more clearly than me? Can you get whiplash at 5mph?
Can you get a "pinhole" in a bumper from headlamp glass? Can you claim for a whole bumper? Do you claim for a whole bumper but not replace it and wait for the next "accident" before claiming for another whole bumper? Do this a couple of times a month and you make a good living!!
Or am I being unreasonably suspicious?
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Let your insurance company deal with it.
With regards to "he wants a whole new bumper" he has no say in the matter, if the damage is just a pinhole it will be repaired and they could tell him it was a new bumper he'd never know anyway.
So what if he has a stiff neck? The amount of any claim on your insurance is irelevant. The only salient points are this.
1) Your wife rear ended another vehicle
2) A claim has been made and she is at fault.
:( sorry to be harsh but thats the way the insurance people see will see it.
The upside is that no one was hurt, ;) not even "Mr Stiff Neck"
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If he claims you would only loose your no claims bonus if it's not protected. The excess only applies if you claim for your car so you could do the repair yourself and not have to pay the excess.
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I thought an excess applied to any claim or claims made on your policy. You certainly have to pay the first £??? on your damage; surely you have to pay the same amount if someone claims against you even if you do not claim for your own damage? Might you not have to pay an excess on both 'claims' ie yours and the 3rd party's or do insurance companies lump them together and treat them as one larger claim?
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Thanks for your welcome comments. First thing this morning my Insurance rang me to give me a claim number and that the garage will be contacting me shortly. In ten minutes they did so and asked if the car was driveable and if so to bring it along for an estimate and to order the parts. She said the parts would be then ordered and they would instruct me when to bring it in and give me a courtesy car for this period. I said I would bring it in this afternoon.
Half an hour later after thinking about this I rang the garage back and said that yes the car was driveable today as it was dry but on rainy days it would not be as there was no glass in the headlight and indicator. Incidentally I only relate this in detail as others who have never made an insurance claim may be interested.
The reply from the Lady at the Garage was what year is the car. 1993 I said. She explained remember you have a £200.00 excess payable to us. No cheques incidentally but CC or Switch.
We will inspect the damage and decide if its economical to repair. If it isn?t we can only give you a curtsey car for 4 days.
I begin to understand the procedure and drive along to this huge repair place in the Potteries. They were very good and efficient and decided that yes they would repair it on the insurance, After all it was really only an headlamp and indicator cover and a tiny adjustment of the wing and would only cost around £200 to do. (same as my excess)
They go over the car with a toothcomb to find every scratch and record it as they say some groups of people find these when they collect and say they must have been done by the repairer.
They gave me a new Nissan Micra to drive away and up to now very impressed with the repairer.
But it does make one think how the system works and it isn?t really good news for the customer.
The value of this car is perhaps £450 and if the repair was over this they would have declined to repair and the insurer would have paid this out to me. But the car is immaculate and worth far more than that to the user. I believe there isn?t a great deal of difference between fully comp and third party insurance in premiums but taking my case as an example I could have easily repaired it myself from a scrapper and the Insurance company would have taken care of the third party.
As it is now I retain my 60% NCD by paying to protect it but the Insurance company say they will take this claim into account when they come to my next renewal.
Perhaps when the value of the vehicle drops to a predetermined level you may as well insure just 3rd party. Any thoughts on this.?
alvin
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Yes, after a point your excess will be approaching the car's value, in which case you may aswell be TPFT instead.
If it was my car though, i would have fixed the light from a scrappy for < £20-30, and not paid my £200 excess. I think i am right in saying that the excess only applies to your own damage, the other driver will be dealt with by your insurance company, thats the whole point of the 'insurance'.
So therefore you weren't under any obligation to get the damage to your car properly fixed, or to pay your excess, although obviously you still lose (some of in your case) your NCB
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Alvin. You say "The value of this car is perhaps £450 and if the repair was over this they would have declined to repair and the insurer would have paid this out to me. But the car is immaculate and worth far more than that to the user"
That is true up to a point; if you don't like the insurance offer surely you can just take the car out of the insurance "loop", report the accident to your insurer, make no claim for your damage and have the car repaired anywhere that suits you. You don't have to accept an insurance company's offer of a write off value, particularly if the car is driveable with cosmetic damage. Good luck with the outcome in any event
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If this accident had been without any third party involvement I wouldnt have even considered taking it to a garage to have this repair.
But would this have made any differene to the end result.. As I see the situation it would have made little difference. I would have to have paid £200 (or would I) for the repair to my Iraqis bumper. And still be making a claim..
I would still have been making a claim even if it was for the 3rd party only which could amount to anything.
The more I think of this the less I'm sure.
alvin
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I could be wrong on this, and if so I hope Mark or someone else will pull me up, but I believe the excess only applies to claims you make on your policy. However, if you weren't at fault then you can claim your excess back from the other driver. (Or there insurer as appropriate)
So, if you both go through your own insurer, you will both pay the excess, but the Iraqi gent will be able to claim his back from your insurer.
If you claim on someone else's policy (as I did after my car was scraped recently) then you have no excess to pay as the excess only applies to *your* policy, not someone else's.
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Steve, In this case it was my wifes fault so my belief was that whatever I do I will have to pay £200 excess.
If the damage to her car came from the gatepost I obviously wouldnt have dreamt of going to the insurer and would have seen to it myself. But in the present situation I imagined that my insurer would still have claimed the £200 excess for the damage to the other vehicle. However I am beginning to have doubts on this and perhaps Mark or someone will give the definitive answer on this.
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My reading of the 'rules' (which could easily be wrong) is that you've misunderstood here. You'd pay the excess for *your* claim and the other party would pay the excess for *his* claim. The only difference is that he could then claim that back. As your insurance company are paying his claim, they would also pay his excess.
AIUI, the excess only applies to the vehicle(s) covered by *your* policy. You're insured for damage to any other car you cause without any further payment being asked of you.
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Alvin,
1) sorry for the delay
2) sorry for misreading your first note.
Its clearly your wife\'s fault. Whether or not the other driver did it on purpose, who knows. I would say that its unlikely but you\'d never prove it anyway. Even if you could get him to admit that he stamped on the brakes suddenly and for no reason, the accident would still be the fault of your wife. Sorry.
The excess in virtually all cases, but not absolutely all, is an accidental damage excess. Therefore it is payable for any repairs to your own vehicle. Where there is an all sections excess, your own insurer will claim this back from you - but as I say, this unusual.
Clearly the other guy is going to claim for his damage. The claim will be - his repair, your repair, his temporary vehicle, your temporary vehicle, plus potential injury or other expenses claims from him.
If you proeceed with a full claim, you will have to pay £200 excess and a potential loading at next renewal. I have no idea what the loading will be, or indeed if there would be one. But let us suppose you have a premium of £500 and the loading will be 1 year and 10% - effectively another £50 making the cost of the accident, if you claim, of £250.
The only reason to entirely deal with this yourself is if you could satisfy the entire thing for less that £250.
You won\'t. Even without any injury claim, you won\'t.
So the third party claim needs to go through your insurer. This will not cause you to pay your excess, but if there is to be a loading, it will be sufficient to attract it.
Then you have the damage to your own car. Here the sums are simpler. £200 excess payable if they fix it for you or the cost of repairs if you fix it yourself. If you could repair it from a scrappy for £50 you would save youself £150. However, there is already a discussion about convenience.
Buying a lamp from a scrappy would entail fixing it yourself. Paying someone else and the amount starts climbing again.
Since you have already given the car to a garage, and received a temporary car, I suggest you let it go. You would have to reimburse them for the temporary car now to avoid the excess, so it isn\'t worth it.
If the guy makes an unwarranted injury claim, there isn\'t much you can do.
I think that answers all your questions, let me know if it does not.
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I was just reading this thread yesterday and by unfortunate co-incidence the same thing happen to me on my way home. I was hit from behind waiting to pull onto a busy roundabout. The guy behind was doing exactly the same thing as me - watching the traffic coming around the roundabout. There was a big lorry lumbering round creating a gap easily big enough for us both to pull into. However, I had already noticed that the traffic in front of us was backed up on the roundabout and had I pulled out I would have blocked the lorries path so I stayed put, the guy behind me didn't!
It was a solid thunk; his car looked a bit of a mess, mine was deceptively OK. We found when trying to move the cars out the way that my rear silencer was wedged under his car. Rather than leave this by the roadside (we collected up all our debris) I thought to put it in my boot for disposal later. When I opened the boot the floor was all crumpled with the spare wheel popped out of the well; it wouldn't then close properly. So what seemed like a fairly minor prang will probably be quite expensive to fix. However, no one was hurt - had we come together 5 minutes later we would have been on the M4 and things could have been much worse.
All this pre-amble brings me to my point - "Mr Stiff Neck". Yesterday I viewed his remarks with complete cynicism, almost comtempt - I hate the culture of litigation we have imported from the US, and £ signs which light in peoples eyes at the thought of compensation. After the accident last night I genuinely felt fine, if a little shaken. Today, woke up in my hotel room (unable to get home last night - so I'm at work in yesterdays stinky clothes!) with a stiff neck!! I'm sure all will be well in a day or so, but should I report this to the insurance company now? It is NOT my intention to seek compensation, but if things should get worse........
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Mark, Thanks for that. I have only just got in and read this.
Five minutes ago the Insurance Company rang me to ask about the damage to the other vehicle and explained that they always do this to ensure the other party is not pulling a fast one and trying to get other work done on the same claim.
I asked him the questions posted previously as to whether I should have gone down the route of repairing it myself and his detailed explanation was identical to your own.
As you say I now have a curtesy car and the work is presumably taking place.
I asked what if the work costs less than £200 and he said they should only charge you the amount what it costs to carry out the work. He also said that whilst we are aware that you could get it done cheaper the repair companies know that our Engineers will pick up any attempt to load the bill, and no repairer would be foolish enough to inflate their bill knowing this could have them struck off the official list.
Thanks for your advice and this being my first (and hopefully last) foray into the insurance world I have learnt a few lessons.
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No the excess is only applicable on damage or loss to your vehicle, ie if it gets stolen or damaged and you claim off your own insurance.
I should know I've had more experience in the last 15 years than I would like.
Any third party claim is settled in full by your insurers. You MUST be fully covered for Third party by LAW. That is why.
If you go through your own FC insurance for convenience purposes when a third party is at fault, then the loss ajdusters acting on your behalf should pursue recovery of any excess on your behalf and the insurers will seek recompense from the insurers of the other party.
Hugo
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Hugo, You may have misunderstood but thats what we were saying.
Regarding the £200 excess I was asking the insurance company if the repairs to my own vehicle were less than this would they charge me less.
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Hi Alvin
I was replying to another post that questioned whether the excess applied to the third party damage, ie would you be expected to pay the first £200 of the third party damage? The answer as Mark Pointed out later is obviously no. Your insurance would stump up for that.
Also, Adrian, my advice from experience is to tell your insurance company about the stiff neck. Like you I was OK at the time of the accident but 24 hours later I was as stiff as a board! Infact it took me over a year to completely recover with a bit of final help from a physio. I had to have some manual manipulation of my neck. Not to mention the lost hours at my property renovation.
Also, more importantly, if you tell your insurance company that you may have suffered an injury, your whole claim will almost certainly be put into the hands of solicitors, assuming you have the Uninsured Loss Recovery Service extra on your policy. In my experience they are much more successful at closing the deal wrt non injury expenses than competent but overworked claims technicians.
Sorry if there are claims technicians here but it's no the people that fail but the system. My sister was rear ended and it took over a year to sort it out. Apparently the other side did everything they could to drag it out and save a few quid off their premium, even to the extent that the claims adviser suggested she go 50 50 on the liability - absolutely crazy!
The injury claim in my case was assessed by a private physician, arranged through my solicitor and paid for via the Uninsured Loss Recovery Service - so, along with some £3,500 of solicitors fees, I didn't have to pay the costs. This chap reached a justifiable assessment of my injuries and, if anything, they lasted a little longer than he predicted, so I did not feel at all guilty about unnecessarily adding to the litigation culture of the UK.
All the best to both of you.
Hugo
"Forever indebted to experience of others"
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