Dear Mr Forum,
Attached is the text of a letter I sent on the 18th July. Shortly after, my wife received a phone call and a promise to try me again. Since then, nothing. The letter was sent to Just Tyres head office in Watford.
I'd be interested in the forum's comments. (Yes, I know I should have been more assertive at the time - I'm just too British).
Do you feel that we should name names a little more? I'm glad the site has a good garages guide; equally, should it have a bad one?
If you work at Just Tyres, I'd be even more interested in your comments.
On a point of law, I justify the following as fair comment. Any legal points Mark (Brazil)?
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Southampton,
18th July 2001
Dear Sir,
I visited your Southampton branch yesterday, following a very competent, knowledgeable and professional quote over the phone. I was looking for two tyres for a trailer. I arrived at 12:15, to find one other customer already there and two members of staff.
One of the members of staff worked throughout my visit, while the other (the one who had given me the quote on the phone) seemed to spend the whole time I was there on the phone to your other branches. He spent a great deal of time phoning other depots for availability on a tyre someone had left for replacement. He then phoned round several branches apparently getting turnover figures from them.
At 1pm, he took one of the wheels off the trailer, then stopped to make some more phone calls. When he eventually took the tyre of the wheel, he ripped the inner tube, then told me I was lucky he had one in stock and, not to worry, he wouldn?t be charging me and he?d saved me a few quid there. I disagree with this, as I expected the work to be carried out competently.
At 1:45 the work was finished and I waited fifteen minutes while he discussed tyre options with a new customer, who eventually, out of embarrassment, asked him to deal with me first. I left the depot at 2pm.
In my hurry to get out of the depot, I didn?t notice until I got home that I had been charged for wheel balancing (not carried out) and tubeless valves (not fitted). My invoice number was 06406953.
I would like a refund for the work not carried out, which came to ten pounds. I also suggest that you carry out some training in customer service, as you have now lost a customer.
Yours faithfully,
Vin Kennedy
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> On a point of law, I justify the following as fair comment.
> Any legal points Mark (Brazil)?
Depends.
Firstly, there is nothing judgemental in your letter, and assuming that you are telling the truth, then the should be no issue. Even if you were not telling the truth, that would not be an offence per se, without your intention to gain an advantage. So, if you're asking me if your letter is safe, then yes it is.
If, on the other hand, you're asking me about your legal standing for retribution, then the answer is sadly not much.
Bad service is not against the law. Neither is using your time. In fact, trashing your inner tube is fine as well, since he replaced it with one of equal or greater value (i.e. new).
Incorrect invoicing is also not an offence provided that all reasonable steps are taken to correct the error and it was not done with intent. Although if it were a repeat offence they would probably also have to show that reasonable steps were being taken to prevent a recurrence.
If incorrect invoicing was illegal the Inland Revenue would be in the toilet pretty fast.
If they remove those items from the invoice, then they're clear. If they don't, then its a question of one word against another, they'd probably lose, but for 10 pound, what's to gain ?
The most powerful thing you can do is tell everybody you know about your experience. Word can get around pretty fast.
M.
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I had a set of Just Tyres Roadhogs fitted to my cruddy old 1.1 Escort about 4 years ago. The tyres lasted about 6 months (10K) before they we worn unevenly, causing shaking. I never had any problems with the big names like Goodyear etc which I subsequently fitted, with no suspensions alterations ever made.
I use Protyre now, execellent, cheap, helpful. Anyone around Gloucester, Bristol area, Protyre are the ones.
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Personally I would only fit tyres from one of the recognised brands which are always fitted to new vehicles. This is not as a result of any inside knowlege but simply that they are perhaps the most important safety factor on your car.
Incidentally its not always the tyre fitting firms who can give you the best price.
last week I needed two tyres for my wifes car. I went to the two big names in town and got a price.
I then went to a small mechanical and tyre fitting garage in town who rang for a price for Goodyear GT 2 and gave me a price almost 20% less.
An experienced man he had reservations about the cheaper tyres which he kept in stock and said he wouldn't have them on his car but it was what the older car owners usually wanted and also taxi cars.
Is there any tyre experts among us to pronounce on cheaper tyres??
Alvin
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Standard of service apart this has rekindled one of my pet hates. Is it not extremely annoying when you are in the process of being served, the phone rings and you are kept waiting whilst the conversation is finished? You become 2nd priority to the telephone.
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This reminds me of the Saturday morning I took the wifes Fiesta for a tracking session at a local Tyre (Specialists?)
I watched the whole procedure from start to finish in utter amazement. The fitter used the alignment tools - the ones where you look through the periscope, I think they call them Lucas ones but I'm probably wrong. Anyway he did it on the floor which makes it difficult to reach the trackrod locking nuts. Judging by the speed he was moving his heart was not in the job. Then as he lay on the floor reaching underneath he actually fell asleep. Being diplomatic I gave him a gentle kick and asked him if he was O.K. My conclusion was that he was still suffering from the Friday night. The job was finished and I was duly charged £12. I went home and checked the work. Both rubber gaiters had twisted off the rack exposing the steering arms and one of the locknuts was loose. I remedied the faults and revisited the dealer the next day where I was met with total indifference.
Time for some real action! The next day I just happened to be passing in my bright yellow jacket and equally visible T5.
" Now then remember me? I think we need to discuss allowing vehicles to leave in a dangerous condition and employing persons who are clearly unfit through drink to perform tasks on cars which have severe safety implications on customers".
His face was a picture. Offered to re do the work - but declined. Offered a full refund - but declined. Told him what my intentions were. My next visit was to Trading Standards who were extremely interested. Best £12 worth of entertainment I've had for a long while. There are some perks!!!!!!
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Yes - it is very annoying to be ignored. This happens at a local motor factor. I can be there ordering perhaps £300 worth of parts and the phone rings on the counter. The assistant will pick it up and start on this phone customers enquiry.
He will subsequently ignore me for the time whilst he is on the phone.
I find this very rude and blame it upon poor management - not enough competant people available to answer telephone enquires is the root cause. (There always seems to lots of parts-pickers milling about at the same time,
perhaps these people could be put to some use?)
I have also experienced the same thing at a local tyre depot - we have subsequently taken our wholesale business elsewhere.
Protyre in Exeter (Exeter Tyre & Exhaust, as they were known, situated on the huge Marsh Barton Trading Estate) are brilliant and supply our wholesale needs. Their retail service (which I have been able to observe whilst waiting to collect the odd tyre or two) is nothing short of superb. Well done! BTW, I think Protyre are part of Micheldever Tyre Services, mentioned previously on this forum.
Rgds
David
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Crap service and getting ripped off seems to be heavily associated with the 'motor trade' in general. You should check out my local 'motorists accessory shop', the rudest people I've ever met. I'm amazed they stay in business. Ignore you at the counter and seemingly don't want to sell you anything. It's like some sort of comedy routine
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i bought an alarm off my local accessory shop, and the man wasnt very helpful, also when i got home the warranty and the window stickers were missing, so i went back to the shop the following day, only to be told 'what do you expect for £110', i finally managed to get a full refund from the head office. its an accessory dealer called A1 autoparts, which is a big company.
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i hate to disagree with u dave but ive been to protyre twice and as a normal customer i was treated like an idiot the manager was rude with me and we were spending about £300 each time i would positively encourage people not to go there
dave
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Reminds me of the time I went to get two rear tyres fitted at a well-known multi-national tyre dealer after being told they were just legal to pass the MOT I had done the previous week. The tyre fitter took the rear wheel off then called me from the waiting room and said "look at your shock absorbers sir they are badly warn and dangerous blah blah blah...we can give you a quote for new ones" I told him no thanks as I was going to sell the car soon (a lie) but was amazed as the garage that done my MOT was very thorough and perhaps a bit overthorough at times and would have not passed the car for an MOT if the shockers were worn. Took the car back to them and asked them to check again, fine they said, excellent condition. These shockers lasted another 5 years and four more MOTs at two different garages. I did ask one of them to check for me 2 years later and he said they were in excellent order and unless they suddenly deteriorated not to change them as they were perfectly safe. I never did change them and when I sold the car privately the man I sold the car to had been in the car business checked the shockers and said "well those are ok" I didn't have the heart to tell him they had been condemned by a tyre dealer 5 years previously!!! I now go to a one man tyre business who at least is honest with me and if he thinks the tyres are OK for another 5000 miles will at least tell you so and will beat any price by the multi-national companies, in fact he tells you to phone around and he will then beat the price. No more thieving multi-nationals for me anymore.
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Sutton Courtney tryes in, surprisingly, Sutton Courtney, Oxford are pretty good. Did a couple of good tyres for me and messed around refitting others balancing etc for less than quoted on the phone. Also did an exhaust for a good price as well (I checked trade price and wasn't much more). Nice blokes, very polite, good service and cheap prices.
A mate bought four Kwik-fit special tyres a few years back and they were very prone to punctures for some weird reason. They also told him his shocks were in very bad condition. He couldn't afford new shocks on top of four new tyres...
Piers
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I have had three poor experiences with Kwik-Fit, not to be recommended.
However for those living in the Bristol area, this company have proved very reliable, friendly with competitive prices and informative:- Brittania Tyres, off Fishponds Road, 0117 965533 or 0117 965544.
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The UK law as it governs the Web is still relatively unformed but you can apply the same defamation laws as for the printed word. Having attended an internet law seminar led by an expensive and top notch US lawyer, I see no problem with naming names and detailing experience provided it is done accurately and truthfully. Straying into other areas of recent controversy on the forum, a judge is more likely to have doubts about the sincerity of a site where posting contributors use mostly pseudonyms and make false claims or allegations which can't be borne out.
I will happily give names of places where I have obtained good service as well as bad although generally it is the bad ones that stick out. I've previously detailed my own problems with Just Tyres but I've also had very good service from branches of national chains. It all depends on the character of the local manager. I wouldn't go near a local Kwik-Fit (Banbury/Stratford upon Avon) any more (take too long to get those, mate) and the one I used in Epsom when I had a company car three years ago fitted different profile tyres on the front and back when changing all four.
Need an excellent Peugeot franchise in the south Midlands? Try JH Thorp of Alderminster, a small family-run firm in the sticks. When my wife got a lack of interest after buying her Peugeot 106 from Bristol St Motors (Banbury), she went there from second service onwards and they proved to be extremely courteous, helpful, explanatory, and even pursued a cylinder head warranty claim successfully after her 3-year warranty ran out.
More names in future when the appropriate subject comes up.
David
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David,
I see that Kwik-fit in Epsom are listed in HJ's good garages list for that area, perhaps new management may be in control since you moved away.
I too suffered the endless wait there while they chatted on the phone to the girlfriend!
Any good alternatives around here from your experience?
Stu, (Epsom).
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Stu
In 3 years, I would guess the management changes in a lot of these national chain branches. As a company car driver I was restricted to the chains and my alternative after Kwikfit was in Carshalton Road, Sutton not far after the park on your left. I think it was a National branch and looked very unprepossessing but the minimal staff were helpful, quick and prices competitive for the medium grade tyres we were allowed to fit. Don't know if it is still there, of course.
I think staff constantly answering the 'phone is inevitable when staff numbers are low. They should at least excuse themselves, though.
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I feel like a voice in the wilderness but I like Just Tyres and have used their outlet in Derby for many years without any cause for complaint. The price is always the best (and no, I do not take it on trust), they are always courteous and helpful and rarely keep me waiting. They have never failed to tighten anything (I always check with a torque wrench) and they don't use those blasted airguns. I may be just lucky with this particular outlet but maybe it is more to do with the calibre of the staff and the training they receive. My daughter recently, against my advice, purchased 2 'special offer' tyres from a well known National chain and came away with a pair of an obscure brand at a price, after they had added VAT, valves, balancing and persuaded her that the tracking needed adjusting (even though the old tyres showed no sign of uneven wear) that would have got her a pair of Firestones at Just Tyres including all of the aforementioned. She also received the 'your shock absorbers need replacing' routine, but had the sense to decline.
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This thread reminded me of a time when my husband needed new tyres for a company vehicle, went to a local tyre shop, and a few days later (at MOT or service) found out that two of the wheels hadn't been secured properly (that whole death-trap thing).
I drove different route to work today and glanced over at the tyre place...strangely enough it's called Just Tyres.
While I'm here, from a customer service point of view I've always been impressed by ATS Euro in Fareham. They don't do that patronising 'here comes a girl' change of attitude thing (at least not to my face!) and don't pick up the phone when they're with a customer.
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It just happens to be Kwik-Fit where I've seen the most daft methods of dealing with a customer.
I have a "trade" contact for tyres normally but we neded some on the good lady's car one Sunday. Thought we'd call in on the way out for lunch, big mistake.
All we wanted were a pair of in-stock tyres fitting from a national advertising campaign. No need for quotes, ordering, phone calls, anything extra...simple??
The manager behind the counter and his assistant treated the customers in the waiting room like a plate spinning contest, the thought of a customer actually leaving having paid for a completed job was against all their principles apparently.
No sooner than you had reached the front of the queue and asked for the tyres you needed the guy would say "OK, wait a minute while I just see what this lady behind you wants". This went on in a vicious circle with old customers queuing up again for a second round to be told "I'll be with you in a minute when I've served that lady behind you".....what!!
It was even worse once the car was in the bay with the wheels off, then came the "hunt the tyre you asked for" game.
Utterly amazing and gave a good insight into human behaviour....why didn't we all walk out and just how much of a buzz did it give these guys to be in control of so many folks?
Mind you the Dodgyhama tyres at £45 a pair for 175/65x14HR turned out far better than expected.
David
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If anyone wants recommendations to be included or deleted from The Good Garage Guide, then please make your request to the webmaster. You can't expect him to inclue every recommendation posted in The Backroom. After all, the Good Garage Guide is composed of reader recommendations.
HJ
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Thank you for your email this I received this morning directing me to this web site. I am sorry that we have failed to meet your expectations in this instance.
I can confirm that we did receive your letter at Just Tyres Head Office in Milton Keynes on 20th July. Customer service issues are dealt with at Divisional Manager level - i.e. someone who is out in the field, close to our customers, who has the knowledge and authority to repond to these types of issues.
I understand from our Divisional Manager that he had spoken to you at the time and it is his recollection that the matter had been resolved to your satisfaction. As this is clearly not the case I will arrange for him to contact you again to discuss the situation further.
Phil Smith
Marketing Manager
Just Tyres Retail Ltd
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Phil,
I assume you to be genuinely from Just Tyres; I cannot be sure, so I have to make the assumption, and the rest of this email should be read in that knowledge.
I have had to calm down for a while to prevent injudicious use of language. The following is thus well thought out, accurate and (I feel) reasonable.
Your divisional manager has *never* spoken to me. He spoke to my wife and promised her that he would keep trying until he got hold of me. This he did not do, so he is lying.
I am not going to become involved in an exegesis of this point; noone from your organisation *ever* spoke to me about my complaint.
I suggest you do something about your customer service, as more than one contributor here has mentioned your organisation by name in this thread and in the past - use the "search" facility on this page.
I will not take you to court for the ten pounds you owe me: It's an empty threat; life's too short and this one goes down to experience.
Regards,
Vin Kennedy
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There was a response to this message, and a response to the response (confusing, isn't it?). The first response was made in error, and the contributor has asked for it to be deleted. It has been. To keep things square, I've also deleted the second response (from Vin).
Martyn
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Please accept our apologies - for causing the problem and not dealing with the complaint to a satisfactory standard in the first place and also for getting our facts wrong when we've tried to resolve the issue.
Just Tyres is committed to providing good customer service. Clearly, in this case, something has gone wrong both at the point of delivery and in our subsequent follow up.
I'd like to try and resolve this if I can - please feel free to contact me at Head Office on 01908 586655.
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unsolicited (perhaps unwelcome) comment ahead !!
Phil Smith wrote:
>
> Please accept our apologies - for causing the problem and not
> dealing with the complaint to a satisfactory standard in the
> first place and also for getting our facts wrong when we've
> tried to resolve the issue.
>
> Just Tyres is committed to providing good customer service.
> Clearly, in this case, something has gone wrong both at the
> point of delivery and in our subsequent follow up.
>
> I'd like to try and resolve this if I can - please feel free
> to contact me at Head Office on 01908 586655.
I don't know Just Tyres, or Phil for that matter, and its fairly clear that Vin has been wound up.
However, @!#$ happens, inevitably. There isn't much more you can do except try and fix it. I would rather deal with a supplier where occasionally @!#$ happens, but they try to fix it, than I would work with a supplier where it very rarely happens,but when it does they don't care.
Phil at least, seems to be trying. You should give him the chance. Frankly, I'd use the supplier, except I'm 7000 miles away, simply because he bothers to try and at least replies here - something of an intimidating thing to do.
At least he's got the b*lls to admit an issue.
On the other hand - Phil - pro-activeness, por favor. At the very least your area manager has Vin's telephone number; don't ask Vin to call you - call him !
Proactive issue resolution approaches calms the water faster than actually solving the problem does.
M.
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and no, I have no idea why I used "por favor" either. I meant "please".
Martyn - get a edit button installed right now !
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I remember the scam of 'failing shocks'. I kept a straight face when Quickfit man told me, collected the quote, and disregarded it. These fastfit garages are geared up to maximise revenue. I tell them, what I want which is usually tyre replacement and make a note to check out their suggestions re parts afterwards!
Some are an excellent source of free information. If they are busy I can usually call back later. One local tyre man will not supply Goodyear. He is not happy with the quality. Not sure why.
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Thanks for the vitriol Vin. NO I AM NOT FROM JUST TYRES. If you care to check previous posts, in particular regarding dents & scuffs you will find that I run a Company called Autorenew who operate a Cosmetic Repair Policy for minor damage. I was merely passing on my own experiences of our local Just Tyres with whom I have no other allegiance. My what suspicious, twisted minds lurk out there.
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Phil (Goodacre),
My reply was to Phil Smith's mail immediately before yours, and it addressed the points in his email.
Apologies for any misunderstanding. I hope equanimity and love for fellow man prevails on the forum once again.
Vin
PS. I didn't even begin to turn on the vitriol, as I had calmed down a great deal when I made the comments. You should have seen me immediately I read Phil Smith's posting.
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Vin, I'm attaching this post here because it seems the most appropriate place. But it's really meant for everyone, so don't be offended.
If you'd clicked the "quote" button, and given us an edited snippet from PSmith's email, Phil G wouldn't have gone off at the deep end by mistake. I think it was Carole Adams who remarked on how difficult it is sometimes to interpret electronic communications when we lack the visual/tactile aids of real-life discourse, so anything that helps to make things more clear and easy to interpret is worth doing.
[PS -- added later -- Now that I've removed the two messages in question, this might not make much sense to people coming to it afresh. But the advice still makes sense: do your best to make things clear and you'll avoid the repercussions that might result from misunderstandings.
Martyn]
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Just a quick point - I had trouble a year ago with the Crawley depot of just tyres. I was after 2 tyres for my car which I was quoted £45 odd pounds for which seemed like a good deal. When I went to pay they tried to charge me £80!! £10 of this was for valves and balancing (sounds familiar?) which they knocked off and the rest was made up of balancing and valves for the other 3 tyres (which were almost new!!) and aligning the wheels. I hadn't actually asked for these extras to be done although the manager of the depot had vaguely mentioned this but didn't mention prices or ask me outright if I really wanted it.
Seems like they have high targets to reach, hence the pushy manner, but in the future I'll steer well clear of just tyres I think. The customer services was laughable when I complained as the area manager said the manager of the depot "could forget to mention things like cost" or something lame like that!!
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>tyres. I was after 2 tyres for my car which I was quoted £45 odd pounds for >which seemed like a good deal. When I went to pay they tried to charge me >£80!! £10 of this was for valves and balancing (sounds familiar?) which they >knocked off and the rest was made up of balancing and valves for the other >3 tyres (which were almost new!!) and aligning the wheels.
Opps - they only balanced the other 3 wheels, not fit new valves as well. That would have really been taking the p***!!!
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Which magazine recommends Hi Q tyres for not ripping customers off with scams. I use them. They are always cheapest on price and do just what you ask
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Since using Just Tyres in the last 18 months I seem to have gone through a lot more tyres and my "tracking" always seems to be out. I don't know maybe it's all coincidence although the messages on this thread are a little disconcerting.
Is it possible to check the tracking yourself ? I have a Corsa and am wondering if there's anything I can do to avoid paying the £22.99 Just Tyres keep charging me.
Robin
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