|
I have never owned an automatic but have driven a few in the past as hire cars. I never liked the way they used to hunt between gears and then held low gears too long for my liking. A couple of years ago however I had a VW Passat DSG as a week long loan and it was a good drive. Also, as a passenger, I’ve been in a few high end automatics and they have felt relaxed and smooth.
Are modern, medium sized automatics equally good to drive?
I am tempted by the Toyota hybrids when I next change but reviews of the driving experience are mixed. As I generally go for relaxed cruising I would probably find them OK and be able to put up with the noisy acceleration on the odd occasions I need to press on. It’s probably some years off so by then EV may be the way to go.
|
I have never owned an automatic but have driven a few in the past as hire cars. I never liked the way they used to hunt between gears and then held low gears too long for my liking.
What's needed is a programmable auto, one you can teach (or a self-learning version ?) when to change to suit your personal taste.
|
I have never owned an automatic but have driven a few in the past as hire cars. I never liked the way they used to hunt between gears and then held low gears too long for my liking.
What's needed is a programmable auto, one you can teach (or a self-learning version ?) when to change to suit your personal taste.
Most modern automatics are adaptive - they learn from the user's driving pattern and adjust accordingly - when test driving such an automatic before purchase it's important to know how to reset the transmission to factory settings.
|
|
|
|
Clutch pedals and gear levers are going the way of the manual choke lever.
Don't knock the choke - I still have one of those .... :-)
|
|
The limitation of an auto-only licence comes not when hiring a car, but when hiring a van. Might also come if employment requires van driving.
|
|
I believe vans are subject to the same transition rules as cars - by 2030 hybrid or electric, by 2035 zero emissions only.
Van hire fleets running mostly fairly new vans will transition to electric anyway. Employers and small businesses can choose as they see fit - I assume ICE vans sold pre-2030 will continue to be used until they fall apart.
For most folk, by 2035 there will be little point in a manual licence. The only manual vehicles (van or car) for sale with be 5+ years old.
|
|
|
|
Exactly ExA35Owner, why limit yourself? Manuals may be on the way out in the medium to longer term, but they'll still be made for the next few years and will be the first drives for many young drivers in 10-15 years time.
|
|
People in the future driving a manual will be like one of us driving a vintage car while trying to adjust the ignition on the dash. And start it by handle. I read that with some cars, you had to be a certain weight to be able to stand on the handle and start the thing.
|
And start it by handle. I read that with some cars, you had to be a certain weight to be able to stand on the handle and start the thing.
... and to place your thumb with the fingers, in case the engine kicked back !
|
|
|
|
Exactly ExA35Owner, why limit yourself? Manuals may be on the way out in the medium to longer term, but they'll still be made for the next few years and will be the first drives for many young drivers in 10-15 years time.
By 2035 new drivers will increasingly be searching for autos, particularly when they realise there is no long term future for manual and that an auto only driving test is easier to pass.
The value of manual cars and vans will fall as few will want one unless (a) cheap, and (b) they have a full licence.
|
|
|
|
The limitation of an auto-only licence comes not when hiring a car, but when hiring a van. Might also come if employment requires van driving.
I went for a delivery driver job with Tesco a couple of years ago. Their vans are automatic.
My son was taught in a car that had hill start assist. Consequently when he passed he couldn't do hill starts in his Fiat Panda. We had to spend time teaching him.
|
|
On the subject of modern gizmos, I have got used to the stop start, combined with the manual electric handbrake so that when I set off, depress clutch, engine starts, into gear and away. handbrake releases automatically, and yes, hill start included.
Edited by _ORB_ on 20/05/2023 at 12:54
|
|
|
|
"My son was taught in a car that had hill start assist. Consequently when he passed he couldn't do hill starts in his Fiat Panda. We had to spend time teaching him."
My current Astra is the first car I've had with hill start assist. Can't say it gets used much round here but I have to set it by giving the brake pedal a good press whilst on a hill. Is that how they all work? Anyway, I'd consider it a failing of the instructor not to have taught how to do a hill start as, I assume, it's optional on all cars whether or not you wish to use it. A bit like I won't teach you how to do an emergency stop as the car will do that for you before you plough into the car in front.
Edited by Chris M on 20/05/2023 at 16:35
|
My current Astra is the first car I've had with hill start assist. Can't say it gets used much round here but I have to set it by giving the brake pedal a good press whilst on a hill. Is that how they all work?
I would assume that they all work electrically now, but my old Subaru Forester had a mechanical system that worked very well.
|
|
|
|
Yes we thought it a bit lax of the instructor when we found out. When you consider a lot of young people are likely to buy a cheap car to offset the huge insurance bills it's an oversight.
|
One other thing to keep in mind, if the car licence holder has an auto only licence and they wish to become an HGV driver, the chances are that they will be trained in an automatic truck, in which case when they pass it will be for automatic truck licence only.
Some time ago when they changed the HGV test, some for better some for worse, they allowed manual car licence holders who pass in an auto truck to attain a full HGV licence, if they had an auto only car licence their HGV will be restricted to auto only...you can probably guess my opinions about this, not as a pleb's opinions count for ought in the ivory towers of power and decision.
In practice this won't matter because its almost impossible to find a manual gearbox truck in the typical fleets a new driver will end up at, and many truck makers offering typical vehicles don't have manual options anyway, but worth keeping in mind for those who maybe have interests in classic/vintage commercials.
|
GB - I dare say you could handle a Road Ranger gearbox but I don't think many others could. An 18 speed crash box that is noted for difficulty.
www.trucksales.com.au/editorial/details/how-to-use.../
|
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHlLepU3VME&t=39s
this chap knows his onions
My first ever artic one of these with that very gearbox but mated to a Gardner 180 engine instead of the glorious 2 stroke.
No instruction no training no familiarisation no handbook,. just go and drive it which was the norm.
4 speed constant mesh box with 3 unequal splits, you could use a variety of gearchange sequences up and down the box, and yes i can still remember them.
The same box used in the later S40 and S80 Foden versions i drove, but the air shift splitter had moved to the gearstick on both of those.
Trucks of that era and right up to the noughties had varieties of gearboxes, all had their good and bad points, one that gave me pause for thought was the 13 speed Fuller as found in F8 MAN's of 70/80 vintage puerly by it being a column change.
MAN continued with unusual designs, most recently the 'comfort shift' a manual box with an extra button on the gearstick which operated the clutch by servos, it still had a clutch pedal.
No truck gearboxes with constant mesh gears were easy.
The more modern equivalent would be the now seldom seen Eaton Twin Splitter, 3 equal splits, probably the best truck gearbox of all time, fitted with the clutch brake as described in the Aussie link.
Once you mastered any of these or that fine 18 speed you link to nothing mechanical ever daunted you to drive again.
Removing the requirements for aptitude and certain skills from the industry hasn't been all to good result, but there's no going back from the headlong rush to do away with the vehicle driver altogether, good luck with that.
Getting back to the thread, for the vast majority of new drivers an auto licence is all they will need, no doubt somewhere along the path to utopia the licence requirements will be altered to allow auto only licences to be exchanged to allow manual driving too.
Edited by gordonbennet on 22/05/2023 at 10:08
|
No truck gearboxes with constant mesh were easy.
When I did my HGV training in the 1970's, we were taught to double-declutch all the time on the course, even though the lorries we learned on had synchromesh gearboxes. This was because a lot of heavy vehicles at that time still had non-synchro "crash" gearboxes and we needed to have at least some preparation for that.
When I got to drive a lorry with non-synchro, I took to it quite quickly, it became second nature. Some non-synchro boxes, such as Leyland, were easier to use that some of the stiff synchro ones, e.g. Ford.
|
No truck gearboxes with constant mesh were easy.
When I did my HGV training in the 1970's, we were taught to double-declutch all the time on the course, even though the lorries we learned on had synchromesh gearboxes. This was because a lot of heavy vehicles at that time still had non-synchro "crash" gearboxes and we needed to have at least some preparation for that.
When I got to drive a lorry with non-synchro, I took to it quite quickly, it became second nature. Some non-synchro boxes, such as Leyland, were easier to use that some of the stiff synchro ones, e.g. Ford.
Could not agree more.
Synchro truck boxes baulk a lot, even when you've matched road/engine/gear speed perfectly the baulk rings still have to be overcome, nothing like that in a constant mesh, well, once you've got the hang of it.
One of the several reasons i wasn't that struck on Swedish trucks when compared to well specced British marques of the time (yes i know i'm in a minority with that view), plus the Brits tended to make use of larger capacity engines which were quite happy tpo lug and pulled like hell from tickover revs, where the generally smaller foreign engines needed the use of umpteen more gears and had to be revved high to get the best from them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
