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Don't the rear lights stay the same whether you have dipped or side lights on? I personally find that it's the rear lights that make the most difference to me seeing other cars. It's those that drive in spray with poor/no rear lights rather than those that drive with sidelights that I have trouble noticing
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Ahh important to know we are all talking about the same thing.
When I refer to sidelamps I mean the lamps that come on when I turn to the first "sidelamp" position on my car. Of course for many years once the engine is running this will be a dim-dip system with the benefit of the full reflector being lit.
"Parking lamps" are only available with the engine off, they are usually small 5W bulbs.
Doesn't the highway code allow the use of dim-dip in the day until visibility falls below 300ft...that is very poor visibility. Also isn't it legal to drive on dim-dip (ie. no headlamps) in town with a 30mph limit and closely spaced streetlamps??
We might need DVD.
M.M
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Ahh important to know we are all talking about the same thing. When I refer to sidelamps I mean the lamps that come on when I turn to the first "sidelamp" position on my car. Of course for many years once the engine is running this will be a dim-dip system with the benefit of the full reflector being lit. "Parking lamps" are only available with the engine off, they are usually small 5W bulbs. Doesn't the highway code allow the use of dim-dip in the day until visibility falls below 300ft...that is very poor visibility. Also isn't it legal to drive on dim-dip (ie. no headlamps) in town with a 30mph limit and closely spaced streetlamps?? We might need DVD. M.M
Ah right! but now that dim dip is no longer required its possible to drive my Mundano on
1) switch off = no lights
2) switch in first click to right = position lights only ie 5w jobbies
3) switch in second click to right = position plus heads
I'll not go into permutations of front and rear fogs lest I be accused of thread hijacking a second time.
Confusingly there is a fourth position which is one click to the left from off. This is the parking light position, ie position lights but no dashboard lights. Yet as soon as the engine is running the lights go off. Seems a strange arrangment to me, ie someone albeit a total numpty could think they had their "side lights" on but in fact have nothing at all lit.
On the dim dip issue, there has been this issue about day time running lights. Lately noticed that a few of the rental cars used in countries where daytime running lights are required 24/7 have what I might call dim/dip plus.
To explain what I mean by dim/dip plus. At first glance it looks like the headlights are on full strength dip, its only when you turn the lights on properly that you realise they were on at about 80% strength, ie brighter than the old glowing red wire dim/dip but definitely not full strength.
Finally at the risk of being Growler-ised (only kidding G!) what about those Lax Power types with the dustbin exhausts who spray black window tint onto their rear lights so brake lights are just about visible yet the position lights are effectively invisible.
FiF
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FiF
My Mondeo lights are the same as you describe - but what annoys me is that there is no warning light on the dashboard for your lights. Only when you have either fogs or full beam on do you get a warning light.
Because of this I never use the "side lights" now - just put my headlights on straight away.
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FiF My Mondeo lights are the same as you describe - but what annoys me is that there is no warning light on the dashboard for your lights. Only when you have either fogs or full beam on do you get a warning light. Because of this I never use the "side lights" now - just put my headlights on straight away.
Bobby G, Now there's a difference I get a green P when "side lights" (sorry DVD!) are on, nothing extra for dip, but as you say something for main.
Plus the fog light tell tales are hidden away down by the switch right out of sight.
Something else I don't like is that, say you've come home late at night and had main beam on when you switch off. Next time you turn headlights on then you're still on main beam and teh warning light isn't that bright in daylight. Occasionally given next door neighbour a dose of arc-eye when doing the morning check. ooops!
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My Volvo has dipped beams on all the time, I can't switch the blooming things off. If I put the sidelights on in the day there is no warning sound when you stop the car and get out so if I'm not careful I return to a flat battery - great! So I tend to leave the dipped lights on all the time as they go off when the engine is stopped, this annoys other drivers. It's surprising how often I get flashed in the day by dozy gits who just don't understand the joys of driving a Volvo V70.
VD5D.
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I think many new or nearly new cars these days have headlights (dipped) that are too bright.I have noticed VW golfs and BMW's seem to be particularly bright, almost to the point that visibility is dangerously reduced
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I think part of the problem is the differential in brightness in between your lights and those of other vehicles. If you all have dim lights then there isn't much dazzling going on. If everyone has brighter lights then the same is true. I used to find the xenons and such like dazzling but now I have switched to osram silverstars (50% brighter and a better reach for the same wattage) I find that others don't dazzle me anywhere near as much as the relative light levels are closer.
I would particularly recommend the osrams as the light is good and white and doesn't seem to generate the sleepiness/tired eyes effect that some headlights do at night.
teabelly
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greenhey, the gantry signs on the M25 near the M4 should have also said as you suggested, but instead were taken up with
"THINK
DON'T PHONE
WHILST DRIVING"
However i have gone along the same stretch in appalling conditions, where even 60mph meant a large amount of aquaplaning(seriously), and were the signs lit? No
The traffic flow wasn't that heavy at the time, but were the variable speed limit signs being used? No
Therefore it would be fine to do 79mph in those conditions but not fine to do 90mph in the day in dry summer conditions, apparently
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Tea belly - i have switched to brighter headlamps (because one popped and i upgraded in a pair) and these are so bright i often get flashed by other drivers.However, i am still often blinded by certain other types of cars.You said if everyone had bright lights there would be little dazzling, i disagree and think that if everyone had bright lights everyone would be dazzled.except those who like having their retinas burned into the back of their skulls
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Whilst I agree that some dipped light are a little too strong this doesn't really justify the use of driving with sidelights in falling light conditions. Surely a really bright zenon light is just as bright at night time too, even moreso.
Also, if I were to claim on an insurance form following an accident in dusk/dawn/bad weather, I would much prefer to put 'dipped beamed headlights' under the "Which vehicle lights were on" section rather than 'sidelights'.
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Still on the same subject, quite often I find driving at night on country roads very scary. As other cars approach with their lights on, I find myself making the conscious decision that I need to make sure that I am to the left of his lights but there comes a point as cars are getting closer that his lights blind you and probably vice versa. So for a split second, you are both driving "blind" just making sure you miss the other car.
This is especially bad when the white lines on the road are missing or covered in tractor mud! Also, am I the only person that thinks that white road lines seem to lose their effect and reflective properties when the road is wet?
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Exactly right BobbyG. I think you definately do "drive blind" for a split second.so long as its only a split second though...
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There has been a lot of sense talked above but on the experience of the last few dismal mornings driving to work (actually ALL mornings driving to work are dismal but you get my meaning) it strikes me that even more basic advice is needed:-
Please use ANY lights at all rather than none
Please check your bulbs - amazing how many people have only one head/parking/brake/rear light
Cyclists - since you don't seem to need any lights please wear ANY colour rather than the all over black/dark blue/grey that you usually wear
of course this message will be irrelevant to all back -roomers! You know already!
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Like Bobby G I drive to work and back on country B roads. The way to drive as the other car approaches with bright lights is to look at the point where the hedge/kerb meets the road as far ahead as your dipped lights will shine. This has the double benefit of picking up any pedestrian or debris at the roadside and also of course, helps prevent the momentary blinding effect of staring at the oncoming car's lights. Naturally driving at a speed to suit the conditions in dark and rain is important.
The way that many of those cars are lit is a well worn topic on this site but an occaisional police crackdown would be most welcome. It can't be that difficult to pull some of the one-eyed-jacks over and issue a ticket
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I rather like the BMW 5 solution - the so called Angel Eye effect. Glad to see they have retained it for the new 5. Me ?
Dipped beam every time. UK solution (Dim-dip) was outlawed by the 20 watters in the EU. Now that was a good idea.
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Side lights for parking is my answer.
If the light is poor then on with the dips.
Why is it not law that an audible alarm is triggered when ignition started and a lamp has been detected as failed.
You would soon get fed up with sound and get the bulb or whatever changed.
I am sure most are too lazy to check lights regularly so get the magic box to do it preferably with a visual indication of dead bulb. i.e. similar to doors open displays. I am sure some cars must have such a system but fit it on the cheapies aswell.
My old Sierra of dip/dim vintage switches off dips when the ignition is turned off. I like this feature but it has no lights on buzzer when the door is opened.
Fiat UNO well!!!!!
Lights and a bright dash light says so all the time.
Glide to a halt with dips on. Turn off ignition and it turns all the lights off. Very dangerous.
Turn ignition the opposite way and parking lights on. Next time the car is started the sidelights are cancelled. Why the dash is illuminated when parking selected I have no idea.
As for rear fogs, I did like the system that cancelled the each time the ignition was turned off. Again lazy drivers who have no real interest leave them on for days after a bit of mist.
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As for rear fogs, I did like the system that cancelled
the each time the ignition was turned off. Again lazy drivers who have no real interest leave them on for days after
a bit of mist.
This is the real problem, a rear lamp hat is (IIRC) 10 time brigther that the tail light, illuminated when travelling at 40mph in a line of traffic.
YOU can see the car in front of you perfectly well and they have NO fogs on, so why do you think that I can't see you.
I just seen to spend the whole journey to work being blinded with a red glow because there is a slight mist over the feilds.
Rant over, time for a coffee.
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imo the problem is in calling them side lights. They are parking lights and should only be used as such.
The law is clear - you should be on dipped heads in reduced light. If you drive with only parking lights on you can be done for it. By having them on you are admitting that lights are required, in which case you should be on dipped heads.
All new cars should be built with just a simple lights on / off switch. If the engine is not running the parking lights would be activated by the light switch. If the engine is running, the headlights would be as well. Fog lamps should default to off when the ignition is switched off, as should main beam.
If the car coming towards you has bright lights, try slowing right down and looking at the left-hand kerb. That is where any cyclist or pedestrian is going to be. It will also reduce the time taken for your eyes to readjust after it's passed.
Over-bright headlights, bulbs blown, badly adjusted lights, all mentioned above - more examples of the ridiculously low level of law enforcement in the UK. Sorry if I seem to get an anti-government comment in to everything, but I honestly believe that's where the blame lies.
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GOG,
So we know for 100% certain and are not just guessing...
You say... "The law is clear - you should be on dipped heads in reduced light"
Yet I understood the Highway Code allows/advises the use of dim-dip (i.e "sidelamps" on today's cars) in dull daytime weather and at night in built up areas.
M.M
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I'm convinced that dipped heads are legally required. Dim-dip may be counted as dipped heads by a court but I don't know that to be the case.
I also don't think dim-dip is the same thing as parking lamps. They brighten when you start the engine, or at least those on my previous car did. They do what I suggest should be done by all manufacturers. Come on automatically with the ignition.
Personally I never drove on dim-dip. imo they don't stand out against dipped heads on other vehicles.
Remember that the highway code is not law, although I would be very surprised if anything printer therein advised anything illegal.
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GOG,
>>I also don't think dim-dip is the same thing as parking lamps.
Quite, halfway up the thread I said I was referring to sidelams as the system modern cars have...i.e dim-dip that comes on with the engine so you can't drive on "parking lamps".
Of course 30yrs ago sidelamps were what we would call parking lamps now.
I only *think* I'm right about the Highway Code. I was suprised when I read a wile ago it semed to say you could drive in the dark in town with just "sidelamps/dim-dip".
I'm happy to be corrected if someone has a link to the official info.
M.M
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Looks like this thread is turning into the next "matts"
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M.M. We may be talking at cross-puproses here. My previous car had what I understand to be dim-dip in that if you switched on the parking lights a pair of small sperate front lamps would light. If you then started the engine the headlights would come on but at reduced power. They were brighter than parking lights and bright enough to cast pools of light in front of the car, but nowhere near as bright as dipped heads, and certainly not bright enough to use for driving on an otherwise unlit road.
Many cars don't have dim-dip. They just have the parking lamp inside the headlight housing. Mine for eg has a small bulb inside the main beam lamp of a 4 head system.
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OK FiF here, DVD must be buying in more alcoholic fruit juice from Tescbury's.
Answering your questions about dim dip etc.
Ignoring the parking situation which will only complicate matters for the purpose of this discussion.
RVLR 1989 Part III para 24 & 25 tell you what is necessary.
FiF Summary follows:
Position etc lights must be lit between sunrise / sunset (ie night) and reduced visiblity in day ( Requirements about the use of front and rear position lamps, rear registration plate lamps, side marker lamps and end-outline marker lamps
24.?(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (5) and (9), no person shall-
(a) use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle which is in motion-
(i) between sunset and sunrise, or
(ii) in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset; or
(b) allow to remain at rest, or cause or permit to be allowed to remain at rest, on a road any vehicle between sunset and sunrise
unless every front position lamp, rear position lamp, rear registration plate lamp, side marker lamp and end-outline marker lamp with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted is kept lit and unobscured.
(2) Save as provided in paragraphs (5) and (9), where a solo motor bicycle is not fitted with a front position lamp, no person shall use it, or cause or permit it to be used, on a road (other than when it is parked) between sunset and sunrise or in seriously reduced visibility between sunrise and sunset, unless a headlamp is kept lit and unobscured.
[snipped a large amount about parked vehicles which is where paras 5 & 9 and others come in]
Requirements about the use of headlamps and front fog lamps
25.?(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-
(a) during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and
(b) in seriously reduced visibility.
(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply-
(a) in the case of a motor vehicle fitted with one obligatory dipped-beam headlamp or a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if a main-beam headlamp or a front fog lamp is kept lit;
(b) in the case of a motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if-
(i) a pair of main-beam headlamps is kept lit; or
(ii) in seriously reduced visibility, a pair of front fog lamps which is so fitted that the outermost part of the illuminated area of each lamp in the pair is not more than 400 mm from the outer edge of the vehicle is kept lit;
(c) to a vehicle being drawn by another vehicle;
(d) to a vehicle while being used to propel a snow plough; or
(e) to a vehicle which is parked.
(3) For the purposes of this regulation a headlamp shall not be regarded as lit if its intensity is reduced by a dim-dip device.
Clear?
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Amazing! The law allows the use of only parking/side lights if the road has street lights. I stand corrected, but I'll continue to used dipped heads at all times thanks.
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Very illuminating FiF, very illuminating.
From this then Backroomers having taken all this in, then there will be no more infringements of the Lighting Regulations WILL THERE.
DVD
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"there will be no more infringements of the Lighting Regulations WILL THERE."
Certainly not Sir!!! - I shall drive with dipped beams on at all times, even in summer and I am strongly tempted to leave them on when I put the car in the garage because (from what I read above)it's the only way I will not be in contravention of some regulation some time!!
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Cue one confused Pologirl!!
I don't think I've got sidelights...?
I've got a circular switch - position one puts the lights on, Position 2 makes them brighter and flipping the indicator stalk puts them on full beam. It's always the whole light that is on, not the side of them.
I have to say I think like a Volvo driver and drive with the position 1 lights on all the time - anything to stop big yellow lorries from not seeing me!
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Amazing! The law allows the use of only parking/side lights if the road has street lights.
That's because you don't need them in urban areas with modern street lights. And certainly not in nose-to-tail traffic jams so common in towns, where all they do is illuminate the bumper in front and cause dazzle in the mirrors.
Headlights are designed to illuminate the road ahead where there is no lighting (eg country lanes) In well-lit towns headlights case glare and their blaze of light can actually mask other vehicles from view.
I shall continue to use headlights where necessary, but will turn them off when appropriate. Many drivers seem unable to find their light control switches and leave their lights blazing away regardless of the circumstances.
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At one time, if you were stationary at the head of a queue at traffic lights at crossroads at night the custom was to turn off your dipped beam so as not to unnecessarily strain the eyeballs of the driver who was facing you on the other side of the crossroads. Just common courtesy. No-one seems to bother any more. Blow you Jack I'm alright seems to be the attitude these days.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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I\'ve been watching this thread with interest and am amazed that nobody has suggested the obvious solution to errant drivers with their foggies on or insufficient illumination.
1) Go to your nearest motoring discount store
2) Purchase 1gazillion candlepower hand-held lamp.
3) Plug in to ciggy lighter
4) Aim at rear view mirror of numpty with foggies on (hint: You may need to put your \'phone down to do this)
5) Burn their retinas out.
A variation on 4) is to get alongside them on the motorway and light up the right side of their face. You may still need to put your \'phone down to do this.
Until the purchase and use issue of Milan anti-tank missiles in the UK is legalised it\'s the best I can offer. Now, does anyone have the number for Adnan Khashoggi? I promise I won\'t dial it whilst driving.....
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Young FiF and MM.
When I were a lad vehicles had side lights and headlights with dip. Finish. Twer dark then all on.
Now the lights you mention (other than head lamps) have a more fancier name. The powers that be, in their infinite wisdom, give then a specific classification and outline their purpose within the Interpretation section of the Regs dealing with lighting (of which FiF you are very conversant).
Voila:
Front position lamp" A lamp used to indicate the presence and width of a vehicle when viewed from the front.
Rear position lamp" A lamp used to indicate the presence and width of a vehicle when viewed from the rear.
No more side lights.
Matters little to me as long as lights are used.
Just a tip I was told when learning to thump a jam sandwidge around:
On encountering an approaching vehicle with dazzling light DO NOT LOOK AT THE LIGHTS but look beyond them and you will less dazzled.
DVD
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