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EV retrofit vs bottom up design - movilogo

Some manufacturers are just converting their ICE cars as EVs.

While some others are designing their EVs from ground up.

I think the later method is better.

An ICE, especially RWD cars have long bonnet due to longitudinal engines. They also have large transmission tunnels which make floor higher and overall less space for rear seat passengers.

Where as an EV design from ground up can accommodate all these issues and thus overall better space and ergonomics for passengers inside.

Speaking other way, a good EV should not look like ICE cars!

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - badbusdriver

an EV design from ground up can accommodate all these issues and thus overall better space and ergonomics for passengers inside.

Speaking other way, a good EV should not look like ICE cars!

Very true, but as we know from plenty of previous examples, buyers don't like "different", regardless of how clever the design and use of space. And until this changes, there won't be a big market for EV's which fully utilise the potential benefits in packaging.

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - mcb100
It’s pretty difficult to convert a car solely designed for ICE to EV, given the battery size and location.

There are, however, platform that have been designed to take either EV or ICE - Polestar 2 being an example of this. It sits on a Volvo XC40 platform which means it has a transmission tunnel it doesn’t need.

The optimal solution for an EV is a dedicated EV platform, minimising any compromise. As a rule of thumb, if they’re a flat floor in the rear with no tunnel then it’s a dedicated EV platform.

Edited by mcb100 on 06/05/2023 at 13:30

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - edlithgow
It’s pretty difficult to convert a car solely designed for ICE to EV, given the battery size and location. There are, however, platform that have been designed to take either EV or ICE - Polestar 2 being an example of this. It sits on a Volvo XC40 platform which means it has a transmission tunnel it doesn’t need. The optimal solution for an EV is a dedicated EV platform, minimising any compromise. As a rule of thumb, if they’re a flat floor in the rear with no tunnel then it’s a dedicated EV platform.

Given that the VAST majority of passenger cars have been FWD transverse engine flat-flloor-in-the-rear-with-no-tunnel for at least 20 years, this statement is not in accordance with observed reality.

Are you using ChatGP, or just, like, using The Force of your intellect?

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - Andrew-T

<< ... the VAST majority of passenger cars have been FWD transverse engine flat-flloor-in-the-rear-with-no-tunnel for at least 20 years, this statement is not in accordance with observed reality. >>

For much longer than that, Ed. But there is still quite a significant 'tunnel' which usually contains the exhaust, and (probably equally important) provides much of the stiffness of the floorpan.

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - mcb100
Thank you, I declined to answer…
EV retrofit vs bottom up design - edlithgow
No tunnel, even insignificant, on mine, nor IIRC on any of my previous FWD cars, though I’ve mostly had RWD when those were an option, so not much of a sample.

Triumph 1300 may have been an exception, but not really typical FWD and may have shared pressings with the RWD Toledo, which had a family resemblance.

So they must have been very prescient, future proofed designs that I failed to appreciate at the time. Maybe I could do a quick electro-retrofit on the Skywing and save myself a head gasket

Edited by edlithgow on 08/05/2023 at 01:15

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - Engineer Andy

Some manufacturers are just converting their ICE cars as EVs.

While some others are designing their EVs from ground up.

I think the later method is better.

An ICE, especially RWD cars have long bonnet due to longitudinal engines. They also have large transmission tunnels which make floor higher and overall less space for rear seat passengers.

Where as an EV design from ground up can accommodate all these issues and thus overall better space and ergonomics for passengers inside.

Speaking other way, a good EV should not look like ICE cars!

In theory, they should have far better front to back weight distribution, and for some that have them, far better traction for 4WD. If I recall - mainly due to where most full EV batteries are now stored (in the subframe below the passnger area), it means that the cars have a much lower centre of gravity and this need less 'intervention' from stability cotrnol devices and lateral suspension components, significantly helping handling, though (with the extra weight [at the moment] of said batteries etc]) at the expense of either ride quality and/or how 'beefy' the suspension generally needs to be to cope with that extra weight.

One other thing taht may keep EV bonnets larger than they need may be the safety systems, given much of what's in ICE engine bays is now used as part of the 'crumple zone' to protect the occupants of the car.

I agree that designing from the ground up will be technically a better way - unfortunately in this transition period (and why I dislike it, especially how rapid it is without the necessity for it) it will only increse the costs of car manufacturers due to having to either R&D and manufacture more models than before, and/or reduce sales (due to having to pass on the extra costs to customers), both of which will further compound the problem, and as I've said on that other thread, drive Western customers towards Chinese manufacturers.

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - Adampr

My Twingo has a tiny bonnet with very little in it - fluid reservoirs and a radiator. All of the action is under the boot. ICE or EV, it doesn't really matter, you can put the bits wherever you like. The big issue with EVs is finding somewhere for the batteries.

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - Terry W

Retrofitting EV to an existing design is full of compromises:

  • where to put the heavy batteries (weight distribution),
  • excess under bonnet space (no clutch or gearbox),
  • suspension and braking modifications to cope with extra weight
  • for most RWD cars the design is built around the need to physically link engine, gearbox, back axle. EV links batteries to motor by flexible cable.

A car designed around EV from the outset should be a better package. Even if the external appearance is largely unchanged, the floor pan and internal structures would be very different. This could avoid compromising passenger compartment space with the extra weight and volume of batteries needed.

EV retrofit vs bottom up design - alan1302

Some manufacturers are just converting their ICE cars as EVs.

While some others are designing their EVs from ground up.

I think the later method is better.

I'm sure the manufactuerers think it better as well.