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Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

Fuse panel has 10 fuses, and 3 modules (light flasher, light-on warning buzzer, and wiper control on the front, and lots of contacts on the back.

All the contacts both sides have tiny little numbers moulded next to them, though irritatingly the ones on the back are upside down relative to in-car orientation. Maybe that makes more sense if you are Japanese.

I'm now concentrating on circuit 7 (GAUGES) which has Earths on both sides of the fuse (suspicious?) which blew in the original polarity-reversal...er...incident (suspicious again)

With all fuses out, there is 1:1 connectivity from the Circuit 7 fuse contacts to matching numbered contacts on the back. Simple and expected.

However, with all the OTHER fuses (apart from 7) in, the top Circuit 7 fuse contact has connectivity to 7 contacts on the back.

(Doesnt make any difference if the modules are in or out.)

Question : Is this normal and expected, or perhaps an indication of a short in the fuse panel unit?

Edited by edlithgow on 18/02/2023 at 03:26

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - elekie&a/c doctor
Seems to be some confusion here . There is no earth circuit across the fuses . They should be a permanent live or ignition on live . What’s happening is that you’re reading an earth circuit across the consumers of that fused circuit. If there’s no live at the gauge fuse , then something internal in the fuse box may have blown.
Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

Thanks for the reply.

I'm certainly finding this fault very confusing, partly because (in terms of which lights work when), it keeps changing, making me think there might be an "evolving" breakdown of the wiring loom, or my manipulations (I've swapped fuse panels and steering column switch units. Fault changes but doesnt change back the same when I swap them back) are causing further damage.

After quite a lot of floundering around, I'm starting again and trying to simplify things as much as possible, but I probably over-simplified my explanation to the point of ambiguity.

With all fuses out, battery disconnected, and ignition off, circuit 5 has multimeter buzzer triggering continuity with the chassis (which is what I meant by Earth) from the upper fuse socket, as does circuit 7,

Circuits 6, 7 and 8 have multimeter buzzer triggering continuity with the chassis (which is what I meant by Earth) from the lower fuse sockets.

This is what I meant when I said that circuit 7 has Earths both sides of the fuse.

With the fuse panel completely disconnected from the car and all fuses out, fuse 7 sockets have 1:1 continuity with two matching numbered contacts on the back of the fuse panel.

However, with all other fuses apart from fuse 7 in place, the upper fuse 7 socket has continuity with 7 contacts on the back of the panel. The lower fuse socket's continuity is unchanged.

I dont know if this is normal, though I'm assuming it is because both fuse panels are currently the same.

There seems, however, to be the worrying possibility that I shorted out my spare fuse panel by putting it on the broken car, so they are the same because they are both broken in the same way.

So my question remains: Is it normal and expected to have continuity between separate fused circuits on a fuse panel, as there seems to be here?

Edited by edlithgow on 19/02/2023 at 01:49

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

Testing inter-fuse terminal continuity directly (fuse panel off the car, all fuses out) the top circuit 7 fuse contact has continuity to Top5, bottom 6 and bottom 8, confirming continuity between separate fused circuits, as above.

Applies to both original and spare, with or without flasher etc modules in.

Seems wrong to me, but I was recently unable to understand a bicycle tail light circuit, so what do I know..

Edited by edlithgow on 19/02/2023 at 02:57

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

About the same as anybody else on this question, it would appear.

Anyway, while cutting back the tape to expose some wiring loom, (my wee girlie seam ripper isnt hefty enough for this. I need a more macho seam ripper, maybe made for the sails of a 3 masted schooner) I noticed beaucoup movement in the connector block from the multi-purpose column switch to the back of the fuse panel, with some of the contacts looking loose in the block

Could this explain the (variable) brokeness? Worth a try

Dont have the special insertion tool serendipitously mentioned recently, so had to content myself with shoving the contacts home with an artery clamp. Maybe I should have also tried wedging them with bits of bamboo toothpick.

hooked it up to an old motorcycle battery via a 10 amp fuse for testing, with the column switch a bit loose on the column, and the indicators worked perfectly, just before mosquito happy hour stopped play

Today, all hooked up properly, back to broken.

Dont get it, Very unlikely those contacts were disturbed meantime

Its like its doing it deliberately

Things are evil.

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - paul 1963

Ed, I really think it's time to say goodbye to the old girl, she's obviously at the end of her life.

Your posts do amuse me, your efforts to keep the car going with whatever you have lying around are both hilarious and interesting at the same time, is there anyway you could post a link showing her in all her glory?

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - Xileno

Indeed - and always remind me of the Letters From The Colonies we received years ago from THe Growler (RIP)

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=43870

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

I tried wedging the contacts in the block by pushing half-toothpicks through from the back, but they dno longer looked to be loose anyway, so I didn't expect it to fix anything, and it didn't.

Not sure there's much more I can do without a Charade G11 circuit diagram for the multi-switch etc, which I can't find online.

So, yes, Could be this is the end of the line / my tether

Re "all its glory" its the second-worst looking car in Taiwan, so not really an appropriate phrase.

But I tell you what, I'll post (maybe the last ever) pictures of the car somewhere if someone answers that (surely basic?) question I asked up above.

I realise no one HAS to answer questions on here, but I'm sometimes puzzled by the deafening silences, as in this case

The question could presumably be answered from first principles by anyone with understanding of how automotive electrical systems work (which I probably don't have)

Or by anyone with fairly extensive practical experience of working on automotive circuits (which I definately don't have)

Or by anyone with a multimeter and access to a car fuse panel that they knew wasn't broken (which I dont have. Though maybe not a computerised car fuse panel, which perhaps excludes just about everybody)

Is it expected and normal to have continuity between (nominally separate).fused circuits on an (isolated from the rest of the car) fuse panel?

If its a stupid question, OK, that wouldn't hugely surprise me, though I'd like to know why

If OTOH I havn't explained the background well enough up above, what info do I need to add?.

Edited by edlithgow on 21/02/2023 at 05:01

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - bathtub tom
Is it expected and normal to have continuity between (nominally separate).fused circuits on an (isolated from the rest of the car) fuse panel?

They could have a common feed on the supply side, or you could be testing through whatever circuit they're protecting (say light bulb) to an earth which would be common.

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow
Is it expected and normal to have continuity between (nominally separate).fused circuits on an (isolated from the rest of the car) fuse panel?

They could have a common feed on the supply side, or you could be testing through whatever circuit they're protecting (say light bulb) to an earth which would be common.

Would that still apply on a fuse panel on the bench "isolated from the rest of the car", as above?

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - bathtub tom

Would that still apply on a fuse panel on the bench "isolated from the rest of the car", as above?

It could on the supply side, although it could have separate supplies for permanent live, ignition switched alive, lighting etc.

I have come across some electrics that are permanently live and the earth return id switched.

You really need a wiring diagram.

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

A wiring diagram would be nice, though it might challenge my understanding.

I have some for the G100 (Mk 3 Charade) but the Skywing is probably closest to a G11 (Mk 2 Charade) which I can't find.

Probably slim to none chance of Skywing-specific documentation, since its a Taiwan only car.

I've sent begging emails to Toyota Daihatsu, and raised a "case" against Daihatsu UK with an online complaints resolution outfit called Resolver.

I don't really have a "complaint" against Daihatsu as such, (or if I did, I would have it with all manufacturers) since Daihatsu seem to be better at providing documentation than most, but I thought this channel worth a try.

Dont know much about Resolver or quite understand how they support themselves.

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

Failing a wiring diagram, I'm starting using Excel to document what I know about the column switch and fuse panel connectivity, since the complexity, even on this relatively primitive car, rather overwhelms pencil and paper.

Seems a potentially useful approach generally, though maybe not in this (doomed?) instance.,

I'm just using it as a drawing/tabular tool so far but I suppose one might do more sophisticated connectivity mapping between components by linking cell values in different worksheets.

Reproducing the wire colour coding isn't very good (maybe there are pattern options I'm unaware of) but I find those hard to distinguish on the car anyway.

OTOH, perhaps I'm just avoiding delving deep into rewiring the loom, which is probably what is required

Daihatsu Skywing / ANY? - Fuse Panel Connectivity? - edlithgow

There are 2 cases of duplicate and 1 of quadruplicate fuse contact numbers (moulded on the fuse panel) tending to confirm that some continuity between fused circuits is by design, rather than evidence of short circuit damage.

This is nice from one POV, since I can (provisionally) eliminate the fuse panel as a fault source. I probably couldn't get another fuse panel anyway.

OTOH, it does seem to complicate fault finding.

I assumed fused circuits were independent, and this does seem to be an assumption underlying short finding guides/videos I've seen on the web.

If they are NOT independent, tracing one circuit may not be enough