Interesting idea Matt - I may just do that. Sorry for not replying for a while but I have been busy with my attack plan on the local dealerships.
I have not received any other responses but I think the postal strike may have something to do with it.
I have decided to send out a total of 14 letters to various dealership groups in the area. These are addressed to either the personnel department or to the sales manager as suggested by someone in this post.
I am going to post these off today so hopefully will get some luck. Ive applied to a massive variety of firms - from Nissan all the way through to Jaguar! fingers crossed!
The way I look at it, I can afford to follow what im interested in as I am only 18. 2 years down the line, if I am not happy I can always return to University a bit wiser and more focused on what I want to do. That way at least I can never say 'I wish I tried car sales'.
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Hi,
UPDATE!:
As a result of my letters I got numerous offers from different companies to go for an interview.
I have now got a position in sales with Renault which i hope to start within the next week or 2.
Thanks a lot for all your advice - its been excellent
Chris
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Chris,
Well done!
It is not all that often that people take the time to come back to say thanks.
Let us all know how you get on sometime?
Matt35.
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Hi, UPDATE!: As a result of my letters I got numerous offers from different companies to go for an interview. I have now got a position in sales with Renault which i hope to start within the next week or 2. Thanks a lot for all your advice - its been excellent Chris
Pleased to have been of help.
--
L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Fantastic - well done.
Please keep us informed how you get on.
Also. let us know a few more current tricks of the trade to keep us on top of the game...!
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I definitely will - quite looking forward to it now. They appear to be very long hours though - im talking 6 days a week 8-6, however the managers seemed really nice guys and everyone looked happy to be working there. I think you can usually tell when a place is enjoyable to work. Also, the money is good and it is a well established dealer - the main renault dealer in the area.
I will let you know how i get on
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Some tips to help you survive:
Try and get to know your customer's names. Easiest way is once you have been introduced, try and use their name 3 times in the first 2 or three minutes of conversation. It really helps pin a name to a face.
Keep a card index of each customer you see. When you sell to them, get an idea of their average mileage. That way you can ring them to let them know when their service is due, rather than their only contact being with the service dept. When they come to change the car, you will stick out in their mind as being helpful and efficient.
When things are slow and the usual meeting takes place around the coffee machine, try and stay stood up and facing out of the showroom. That way, if ayone walks onto the front lot you see them first and can get to them before your colleagues.
There are many more out there, you'll find lots of other ideas as you go along. Do keep us posted (we'ren always happy to help)and above all, remember to keep up the enthusiasm!
Well done
ND
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Thanks for that advice - i think the filing system is a very good idea.
This is where i am starting to see the difference between the franchise i was working in and selling on an individual basis.
As you are part of a 'team' when selling in a franchise, you begin to develop ideas which everyone can use - i.e. useful forms, standard letters to send out to each customer etc. - where as with individual sales i can see that you have to sell yourself within the company as well as the actual product.
Im looking forward to the new challenge and although I know it wont be perfect or financially rewarding 100% of the time, its worth having a go at.
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Chris,
Congratulations and well done.
From your postings, i'm sure you will be very successful if you are prepared to put in the hours.
If my experience is anything to go by the general standard of dealership sales staff is laughably poor so anyone with half a brain shouldn't have much competition.
Any salesman who :
A,actually knows what he is talking about
B,listens to his potential customers
C,deals with them in an honest, straightforward, unpatronising manner
D,does what he says he is going to, keeps his promises and
E,doesn't try to bull**** them is bound to succeed in a big way.
Treat your potential customers as you would wish to be treated and you will do well.
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8-6 6 days a week? With an hour for lunch that's 54 hours a week. I thought there was a legal maximum (40? 45?) these days without written special reason?
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Dipstick - there is the Working Time Directive which deals with working hours. This places a limit of an average of 48 hours a week over a 17 week rolling period. However, employees can chose to 'opt-out', thereby enabling them to exceed the 48 hour limit.
I am opted out, and average about 55 hours a week, plus at least 10 hours a week commuting. Guess who's thinking of opting in?!
Carmad 10000 - best of luck to you. Long hours, especially felt on a drizzly sales pitch in February - but you sound like you have the will and commitment to succeed.
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Ah, thanks for that clarification.
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Update!
lol i went for another interview today for a large family run Vauxhall dealership near where I live.
The sales manager there was a real character and after a 45 minute interview or so he offered me the job.
I have decided to take this position instead as it seems a much more felixble place to work - the hours are less too. They also have a better payment structure and offer other cars apart from vauxhalls - the sales manager basically buys what he wants!
On the forecourt there were cars such as:
Subaru Impreza WRX
Honda Civic type R
Audi TT'S
VW 4 Motion golfs + gti's etc..
Astra '888' rally car -VERY rare
VX220 Turbo's
Zafira GSI Turbo's
BMW 318 - high spec
+ many more exciting vehicles
Basically, i prefer the range of cars on offer and I really liked the sales managers enthusiasm for different models too.
I will hopefully start this position in around 1-2 weeks
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I used to live next door to a car salesman who I last saw when he moved into a mansion outside Manchester. One of the secrets of his success was that he'd wander round Manchester in his lunch break and leave a preprinted note in an envelope with the number plate on it (so it didn't immediately get dumped) under car windscreen wipers suggesting a likely trade-in value against the car if its internals were in the state the visible parts of the car seemed to be in. He looked for cars without company detritus on the back seat and checked the mileage through the window. Th preprinted form also had details of cars on offer. Bit of work for him, but he reckoned on several sales a week coming from it.
He also used to phone people a week, a month, six months and two years ("ready to trade in?") after each sale. Again, a bit of work, but a huge reward, as he has a list of HIS OWN customers. They wouldn't go to anyone else for a car, and followed him from dealership to dealership.
He was a wealthy man through the application of a bit of common sense.
Hope it works out - just try to stand out from the crowd.
V
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>>just try to stand out from the crowd.
And that may be the best piece of advice you've ever been given.
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Carmad - If you're still around I would love to hear how you are getting on.
I'm in *exactly* the same position as you were when you first posted. I'm totally disillusioned with my Computing degree and would love the opportunity to get into this sector, and there's plenty of time left to go back to uni if I don't like it.
Blue
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Hi all.
I've been having a think recently about where to do my university work placement, it's a management based placement that I'm after, and the thought of working in a car dealership cropped up.
This got me thinking a bit further, if I could get a full time job in car sales with a large chain of dealers, I would prefer to do that and simply change my university course to a part time management based course, which I would then follow up with an MBA upon completion.
Has anyone got any advice regarding getting a full time job in this area? I'm going to be enquiring about it with a BMW salesman who we know on Monday, but obviously would like some idea on how realistic I am being! I would rather get myself into a large dealership chain where there is greater potential for promotion than a small dealers with fewer prospects.
I know that there was a previous thread on this, but I'm afraid I couldn't find anything with Forum Search!
If anyone has any advice to offer about the best way to go about this and whether it is a realistic goal for a 19 year old then I would be very grateful.
Blue
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I might be wrong but I think it was a thread by Welshy so why not try a search under that author. Good luck.
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This thread was on Oct 31
Matt35.
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Hi Blue Oval,
Don't know if this will help much, but as a student currently on a placement (with Mars - in Slough), i can thoroughly recommend the placement schemes, but ensure you get one with a large company. Mars have a fully independent placement student scheme, i know that Ford, Jaguar, Vauxhall certainly have aswell, i applied to them!
With regards to the idea of doing a part-time programme after, most of these large companies will have a 'Graduate Development Scheme', whereby if you graduate with a decent degree, the fact that you have done a years placement with them already stands you in good stead for a full-time place. At least thats what im hoping for with mine!
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Not any work experience with main dealers, Blue Oval, but most of the 'REAL' motor trade work in a totally different envoroment.
The biggest difference being the independent will be spending his own (or his banks) £$£$£, this makes a HUGE impact on how a business works!!
No harm in trying your hand - you might even enjoy yourself!!Don't forget,you'll be expected to Arfer Daily to most people!!
& Hawsey, you've got THE job, if my memories of Mars are still true today!!Finacial & career rewards were first class!!
The selection process is verrrrrrrrry tough & you certainly wouldn't be surprised to see the local rep filling his own displays, in Woolworths on a Saturday morning.He made certain he'd have product fully displayed & sold through!
Is there still that transparent ceiling over the production lines & does Mr Mars jnr still have tantrums & throw the entire production run across the factory floor, if he's not happy with quality control??
Wonder what would my life have been, if I'd have taken there offer??
VB
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Volvoman offered some good advice WRT getting into Car sales on that Welshy thread.
I was looking at a career as a car salesman, and still would consider offers, though I may well go into self employment in a different area.
I got a few interviews by contacting some franchise dealers out of the yellow pages, talking to them and sending my CV off if I liked the sound of the company. A generic CV aimed at motor trade related sales worked for me (my background is high precision manufacturing engineering).
When you contact these guys, ask to speak to the sales manager or dealer principle and ask for some guidance as to the direction of this area and the market sectores that have the greatest expansion potential. This will appeal to their sense of worth and you'll be amaized at what this can produce. You'll hear who's taking on and increasing showroom floorspace etc, and may be invited to sent a CV.
Also ask if they would like a copy of your CV. I have yet to be told 'no thanks'.
More importantly, if you do send your cv to someone, call them a week later to follow it up and invite them to fix a time to meet you on their premises to discuss it further. These are all the sales tactics that they will be looking for in their employees.
I contacted my local Land Rover dealer (Roger Young) in this way. The sales manager was busy at the time so my phone number was takenfor him to call me back, which to my amaizement he did a few hours later. I thanked him for his courtesy and commented that this was a unique event.
Even though I was not lucky, I received a very nice letter from the MD two days after my CV was received.
Good luck!
Hugo
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Others have mentioned that this has been asked recently, here is the link to the thread:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=17271&...f
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Thanks to everyone for their replies, I've had a look at the thread and it hasn't killed my enthusiasm for the job!
I'm going to make some approaches to various dealerships over the next week and see what happens. Will keep you all updated!
Blue
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Wow! I've been having a flick through some of the vacancies that are available on-line, there's some availaable with a large Renault dealership that look very rewarding, will be submitting my application form shortly. Watch this space. :-)
Blue
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there's some available with a large Renault dealership
Does this mean we will start seeing posts from "Silver Diamond" instead?
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Hi,
Well a bit of a strange twist has happened since i last posted...
When i went to resign from my job I was offered a substantial bonus and better commision scheme. This worked out much better than what I was going to be paid by vauxhall and it was at least 15 hours less a week.
I also realised that my A Levels would be rendered useless and I would not receive any recognition for working hard for 2 years. Recently, I have seen many of my friends from school who have failed their A levels and as a result, have not had the opportunity to go to University. Therefore, I think I would be foolish to dismiss going to Uni again.
I am still getting numerous responses from different car firms, usually saying they have no places on offer but will keep me on record.
I have now decided to go back to University in September to study automotive engineering/design. I have applied to several different Universities and will hopefully get a placement somewhere.
I plan to look for a new job in the new year and have just been offered an attractive proposition through the company my sister works for. Basically, they are an international company that makes medical equipment and I have been offered a position in their communication sector. Very good pay at 20k basic + perks for 39 hours with weekends free. Also, you dont have to deal with the public and there is no uniform. I am most probably going to transfer over to this job in jan/feb and then go back to Uni.
Overall, I think I have realised that I dont want to be in sales all my life and dont like the prospect of jumping hoops for customers forever more. My present job is much like this and even though I could switch fields to something which drives me more, ultimately, im still a salesman - i.e. totally ruled by customers.
I will see how my new 'plan' turns out and wish everyone in a similar situation to myself success in finding what they want to do. Once again, thanks for your help guys.
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Well done Carmad, I'm sure you've made the right decision! There are still good jobs available for professional (i.e. graduate) engineers - the pay is generally good, the hours are regular and you're not dealing with the 'great British public' (i.e. running around after characters who think that because they've spent £10k with you they own your soul).
I started from pretty humble beginnings and worked as a 'spanner man' and helping flog cars off a forecourt - that was quite an education, you soon learn that 90% of the public are idiots when it comes to cars. I felt I could do better so I studied hard to get qualifications; firstly a 1st class hons degree and then a PhD. I was then an engineer with a major automotive consultancy for a few years. Eventually ending up in management and consultancy roles and then doing an MBA, which I really enjoyed. I'm a lot older than you (I think!) but believe me, there is no way I would go back to any 'customer facing' role; there is no substitute for good academic qualifications and a job which interests you and stimulates the mind. Regular hours are a nice bonus. I would hate to be jumping through hoops to meet monthly targets and being threatened with redundancy on a regular basis, expected to work on a Saturday morning etc. etc. I know its possible to make a good income from selling prestige cars, but as far as I am concerned those who do the job are welcome to keep it.
Best of luck with your future career and if you want any advice on suitable uni. courses to get into the industry (as a professional engineer) then just let me know.
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Thanks a lot for your help Aprilia. I may well take you up on that offer - I have applied to various Universities including Coventry, Huddersfield, Oxford Brookes and Portsmouth. The first 2 Uni's are very well known for their automotive courses in the design and engineering sector. The latter 2 are less well known, however both offer similar courses.
When I was selling kitchens, I found the number of customers who returned with faults to be very...hmm whats the word....'challenging'. Many would be angry, stressed out and sometimes abusive and would take it out on us sales staff, even though it would usually have nothing to do with us. I have realised that it doesnt matter who's fault it is, ultimately, the salesman is on the 'front line' for the customer and often is the punch bag. Sure, i can handle this for possibly a few years, but not my entire life. I have to agree with Aprilia when he said:
"I know its possible to make a good income from selling prestige cars, but as far as I am concerned those who do the job are welcome to keep it."
Many sales jobs are 'here today, gone tomorrow' type careers from what ive been told. My dad has an estate agency business which hes gradually built up from establishment in the late 80's - but before this worked for a large company in london. He worked his way up and was a regional manager for them, however he was reminded that no ones job was ever 100% safe with a large firm. He told me he was made to sack 17 sales managers throughout the group within 14 days. Also, 2 other regional managers were made jobless. Luckily his job was safe (for now)however, this made him setup on his own. He has advised me to go back to Uni and ultimately, has shadowed the doubts i had.
Also, i was meaning to ask you all - how much do you think a salesman at your average bread and butter car dealer makes? - i.e. vauxhall, ford, renault?
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Carmad, go to Uni, if for nothing else than the great time you're almost guaranteed to have there. Make sure it's far enough away from home too. If you can sell, you can make money easily enough in the _long_ hols to offset some of the debt.
My singular piece of advice for course choice would be to do something with an industrial placement, or better still, a vocation at the end of it. Always wish I'd done Optometry at college, nice living to be found there methinks.
And while I remember, what car did you get in the end? I assume you saw sense and got a MINI? ;-)
--
Lee
MINI adventure in progress
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Carmad
Make sure the course you choose places strong emphasis on the 'engineering design' aspects of automotive design, *not* styling. There are 1001 would-be automotive stylists out there and only a handful of jobs. There are lots of engineering jobs all across Europe. Make sure your course is a BSc or BEng (*not* a BA). The styling role looks glamorous, but in reality only about 1% of graduate automotive stylists end up in the industry - jobs are very thin on the ground. Make sure that you chosen course has a reasonable mathematics content and exposure to industry-standard CAD packages (e.g. Pro-Engineer).
Remember that your future employer will not necessary be looking for an 'automotive' engineer - a good traditional degree in Mechanical Engineering will stand you in very good stead for all sorts of industries - including automotive.
Also, remember that you will only be spending 12-16 hours a week in formal classes, so choose somewhere with a nice environment - remember you are buying a whole package (i.e. the town, the library, accomodation costs, social life, part-time employment opportunities). Go to an Open Day and see if the staff seem friendly and approachable and happy.
Of the Uni's you mention I would sway toward Coventry or Huddersfield.
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Hi Aprilia, thanks again for the info youve posted - very useful.
The courses that I have chosen are as follows:
Conventry Uni:
Automotive Technology
Automotive Engineering and Design
Huddersfield:
Automotive Design and Technology
Automotive Product Design
Oxford Brookes:
Automotive Engineering
Portsmouth:
Computer Aided Product Design
I am currently waiting decisions on each of these via UCAS online. I have tried to pick a broad range of Universities in the subject area im interested in. I was advised to do this by my career\'s office who said that once I had secured a position at a Uni, I could then look in more detail at the course and change across if I wanted to.
I am proposing to go along to some of the open days over the next 2 months or so. I have however researched the Uni\'s I have picked and they all have very good reputations, but as you said, its down to picking the \'entire package\'.
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Carmad
Re. your university choices, here are a few tips (I've had quite a bit to do with university engineering departments in my time).
Firstly, ignore any 'flashy' research and consultancy facilities they show you. As an undergraduate you are very unlikely to use these sort of facilities.
Also, don't take too much notice of any high-profile professors or consultants that they wheel out at Open Days - you will never see these guys again, they are too important to get involved in teaching undergraduates and will be off at conferences and supervising research students.
What you are looking for is reasonable, well-maintained facilities and friendly, helpful, teaching staff. One thing to watch out for is the composition of the staff. The average university lecturer earns less than my mate who is a Tesco's truck driver - consequently universities have enormous problems getting staff in 'shortage' like engineering and design. A good engineer or designer is not going to even bother looking at a university job ad - the system (as far as engineering education is concerned) is on its last legs as compared to our European neighbours.
The way the universities get around this problem is to recruit 'cheap' staff from abroad (this is not meant to sound racist!), mainly developing countries like India, China, Middle East and Eastern Europe. Although many of these people are very intelligent, they may not be very good communicators or have much idea about UK/European industry (remember, there is no 'entry threshold' to university teaching as there is for school teaching - they can get off a plane from Shanghai on Friday and be taking a lecture on Monday). If you can, look at the composition of the staff who are going to be teaching on your prospective course - what you are looking for is people with genuine experience of industry and a good few years of university teaching experience.
Remember, there are not many students wanting to study in your subject area, so you should be offered a place at all the universities you mention. Don't be afraid to ring up the course leaders/managers and ask plenty of questions.
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Added by Carmad:
Hi,
Firstly, my reply to Aprilia:
Thanks a lot for all your detailed information regarding Uni. Its extremely useful to hear from someone who has experience in this area, and you have been much more helpful than my careers advisor.....he seemed to just agree with anything i suggested and tbh, obviously wanted to have his lunch break.
I will pursue my application with each University and go along to some of the open days. Once again, thanks for your advice.
Now my bit:
Ok, the thread has kind of wandered of subject, for which I am as guilty as the next person. Or the last person. Or was it the one before that?
Anyhow, can we keep this to the sales career and subsequent university discussions and I will start another thread on the insurance matter for those that are interested.
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Wise words, Aprilia,
I did 16 years in various customer-facing roles.
I now work for myself, and, despite, (IMHO), knowing how to look after customers well, would not go back to such a role.
Targets, threats, cocked-up products, broken promises by colleagues, 60K miles a year, early starts and late finishes.
Nope.
rg
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firstly, thanks to the moderator for splitting the thread as I personally am more interested in this subject area.
RG - Its interesting to speak to yet another person who has experience with the public and not liked it!
Just from my experience part-time over the last few years I can definitely identify with your perspective. I think that is what has caused me to 'wake up and smell the coffee'. I can definitely understand what you mean when you mention 'targets, threads and cocked-up products'.
Aprilia - what do you do for a profession may i ask? Also, if you had the opportunity to start your education all over again, would you have gone the same route?
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Full marks to Aprilia for excellent advice. Carmad, take his advice, go to uni and get yourself a degree and professional qualification. You are obviously capable. You will never regret it. Good luck
Baz
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>> there's some available with a large Renault >> dealership Does this mean we will start seeing posts from "Silver Diamond" instead?
Nah, my handle will always be Blue, I'm too attached to it now :-)
I've got the application form for BMW, and I have to sum up why I would be suited to their Career development programme, and there's space to write about 20ish words.
So, I have a good idea of what to write, enthusiastic, fast learning, team working, highly flexible and ambitious are my main skills which I'll be mentioning, but I was just wondering if anyone has any other advice on answering this question as I think it will be the deciding factor on my form.
I am very impressed with BMW, I sent in my CV by post and they called me the next day asking if I would like to apply for the Sales career programme, very prompt and very efficient. I really want to work for this company!
Blue
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Supposedly retired but hard to get out of HR mode.....
Your penultimate para has all the right buzz-words, but they're all over-worked and on every biodata that ever crossed my desk. Unless you can generate specific examples of things you did which exemplifies these qualities it's a case of take a number and wait for your turn. I've interviewed I don't know how many grads and I used to pray at the end of a long day Jeesus I hope the next guy has something new...
What is your last para saying? Look for something there. Why did that response stimulate your remark? What does that tell you about the organization you're talking to and how can you turn that around to make a match with your own skills and aspirations which you can verbalize? Hide away with a couple of beers and work it out on paper so you can present it a selling point.
What does the response you got tell you about the organization's culture and where do you think you might be able to make a fit with that when you talk to the interviewer?
I'll wager if you talk to the guy from a good understanding of where his company looks at the world you're in with a chance.
Good luck.
(TIC, might be time to consider a new nic as well..... :-))
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Thanks for coming out of retirement Growler :-)
I've e-mailed ya.
Blue
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